Football History

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Timothy P. Brown joins Darren Hayes in a captivating discussion as they delve into the fascinating intersection of football history and unique anecdotes.As the conversation unfolds, Darren and Timothy explore how each 'factoid' serves as a window into the past, reminding fans of the rich history behind America's favorite sport. Timothy elaborates on his research methodology, which involves cataloging intriguing bits of information that often surface unexpectedly during his investigations. This method not only enriches his own understanding but also provides a treasure trove of material for listeners eager to learn more about football's evolution. Each factoid discussed is a testament to the game’s cultural significance and the myriad ways it has impacted American society.

This story is based on Tim's original Tidbit of Factoid Feast 1: Agony of the Cleats.

We also have an audio podcast version for your added convenience: From War to Cleats: Unearthing Football's Hidden History.

Listeners are treated to a mix of humor and nostalgia, especially as Timothy recounts how the Navy's surplus of cleats inadvertently contributed to quirky local lore. The image of schoolchildren wearing military-grade football cleats to class brings a light-hearted element to the narrative, illustrating the sometimes absurd outcomes of logistical errors. The episode not only celebrates the sport but also emphasizes the importance of remembering its history, making the discussion a must-listen for football enthusiasts and casual listeners alike. Timothy's insights encourage a deeper appreciation for the game, reminding all of us that football history is filled with unexpected narratives that continue to shape the present.

Takeaways:

-The podcast features Timothy P. Brown discussing unique tidbits from football history.

-Listeners can explore various historical anecdotes about football equipment and players.

-The story of the Navy's surplus of half a million football cleats is surprisingly humorous.

-Timothy P. Brown shares how he collects and curates interesting football facts.

-The uniqueness of the 'factoid feast' format keeps the podcast engaging and informative.

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Hold onto your helmets, football fans! In a groundbreaking episode, Timothy P. Brown, the mastermind behind FootballArchaeology.com, joins host Darin Hayes to unveil a hidden chapter in American football history. Buckle up as Brown exposes the story of Anthony Harris, the first known Black college football coach at a non-HBCU institution, leading Colby College in 1903 and 1904 – years before the previously credited Matthew Bullock. This revelation throws a fascinating wrench into the established timeline and shines a long-overdue light on Harris's pioneering role in the sport.

However, the episode doesn't shy away from the challenges of unearthing African American contributions. The lack of coverage in mainstream media during this era makes uncovering these stories an uphill battle. But together, Darin and Tim celebrate the importance of recognizing these overlooked figures and ensuring their legacy is preserved for future generations.

This episode promises to be a captivating journey, rewriting narratives and reminding us that football history is richer and more diverse than previously thought.

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Listeners are transported back to the winter of 1918 as the podcast recounts the dramatic backdrop of the Rose Bowl featuring military teams.

Host Darin Hayes welcomes Timothy P. Brown, who reveals the intriguing details of how the game came to be played with teams composed of military personnel rather than the collegiate athletes typically associated with the event.

Of course, this discussion all stems from Tim's original article titled: December 29, 1917: 1918 Rose Bowl Coaches .

The audio only podcast of the discussion can be found at: 1918 Rose Bowl Coaches.

The episode delves into the unique circumstances surrounding the Rose Bowl, such as the decision-making process that led to the inclusion of the Mare Island Marines and Camp Lewis, both of which were military training camps. Timothy emphasizes the significance of this game, not only as a sporting event but as a cultural touchpoint for a nation undergoing the trials of war. The coaches emerge as pivotal figures in the narrative, with Timothy elaborating on their diverse coaching philosophies and the camaraderie they fostered among their players. By examining these relationships, the podcast paints a vivid picture of teamwork in the face of adversity, offering listeners a deeper appreciation for the role of sports in shaping American identity during tumultuous times.

Takeaways

-The 1918 Rose Bowl featured military teams instead of college teams due to World War I.

-Timothy P. Brown detailed the historical context of the teams and their coaches.

-The coaches of the teams included notable figures like Hugo Bezdek and Red Stanton.

-Mare Island Marines and Camp Lewis had contrasting playing styles during the game.

-Bezdek was one of the first showman coaches, famous for his charisma and innovation.

-The game ended with Mare Island winning 13 to 0 in a competitive match.

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Timothy P. Browns reminds us of a skirmish in a Penn versus Carlisle game where in the fray was involved Big Bill Edwards, Pop Warner, Waseuka, and an Umpire.

In a chaotic 1909 clash between Penn and Carlisle, a brawl erupted, showcasing the raw intensity of early football. The incident began when Carlisle's Waseuka delivered a forceful hit on Penn's quarterback, sparking a confrontation between Waseuka and Penn's Fretz. Former Princeton star and umpire Big Bill Edwards intervened, only to be struck by Waseuka. Edwards promptly ejected Waseuka.

Thanks to Timothy Brown of FootballArchaeology.com we have an account of the mele. Umpire Strikes Back

Carlisle's legendary coach, Pop Warner, stormed the field, accusing Edwards and referee Walter Okeson of bias. This led to Warner's own ejection, along with Fretz. Edwards, known for his imposing presence, maintained his composure, opting for ejection over retaliation, a testament to his self-control.

The controversy extended beyond the game. Carlisle, while accepting Edwards's handling of the brawl, harbored resentment from a previous game where he had shared Carlisle's strategies with Princeton, who then defeated them.

The skirmish, though dramatic, was overshadowed by the tragic death of Army's Eugene Byrne in a separate game. This event shifted the focus to player safety, leading to rule changes in 1910, and put the Edwards/Warner altercation into a much smaller perspective. Penn ultimately won the game 29-6, but the day's events highlighted the volatile nature of early football and the evolving role of officiating.

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The Pigskin Daily History Dispatch offers an enlightening episode featuring Darin Hayes and Timothy P. Brown, who delve into the lesser-known yet fascinating aspects of football history through Timothy's 'Factoid Feast' series. This segment highlights the joy of uncovering small but significant stories that enrich the broader narrative of the sport. Timothy discusses his passion for collecting football postcards, particularly one remarkable postcard from a World War II Army Air Force field, which serves as a window into the past when servicemen not only trained for combat but also formed football teams to foster spirit and camaraderie.

Of course, this discussion all stems from Tim's original article titled: Factoid Feast VII .

The audio-only podcast of the discussion can be found at: Single Wing Image Has Something Missing.

The episode takes a closer look at the visual elements of the postcard, including its combination of imagery and play diagrams that offer a humorous glimpse into the creative methods used for football promotion during the era. Timothy points out the amusing misrepresentation of player positions in the play diagram, which prompts a lively discussion about the evolution of football tactics and the sometimes humorous interpretations of the game by those not fully versed in its complexities. The hosts share laughs over their personal experiences with football gear, especially the resourcefulness shown by players who relied on makeshift solutions, such as duct tape, to secure their equipment.

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Get ready to dive into the history of football conditioning! In tomorrow's Tidbit, we’ll explore a 1923 publication on the subject. But today, let's go back to 1913.

Pop Warner's Carlisle Indian team was facing a tough matchup against Dartmouth. Despite being the underdogs, Warner decided to switch up his practice routine. Instead of grueling drills, he had his players play leapfrog! This unconventional approach paid off as Carlisle dominated Dartmouth 35-10, proving that sometimes, a little fun can lead to big wins.

Of course, this discussion all stems from Tim's original article titled: Factoid Feast VII .

The audio-only podcast of the discussion can be found at: Carlisle Leapfrogs Dartmouth.

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Timothy Brown of Football Archaeology found some images of two-tone colored football jersey numbers and dug up some history on these unique features from the past.

Tim takes us back to Cal Tech and their innovation of split and two-tone colored jersey numbers with his original Tidbit titled: Two-Tone and Split Jersey Numbers.

-Transcribed Two-Tone CalTech Jerseys with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And welcome to Tuesday, FootballArcheology.com day. Timothy P. Brown, the founder and head writer of that site. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Good to see you again on a beautiful summer evening. Looking forward to talking a little bit of old football. Yeah, we are getting to the point where football is.

You know, there's pads being clacked around the country and balls being thrown. And we're going to be seeing a lot of that real soon. Well, of course, we can still watch our friends north of the border who have been playing, but it is getting exciting.

Yeah. I mean, well, I was going to say before you added the CFL, our CFL friends, I've been I don't I haven't been really watching when it's on CFL Plus, but when it's on the CBS thing, you know, I take those and watch those games. So it's fun.

It was some great, great football. It definitely is a lot of offense. They really gear it towards scoring some points.

So that's what makes it attractive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So we're going to talk tonight about one of your tidbits that you had back in June, you know, just a little over a month ago and talking about some jerseys, which is a favorite topic. I love talking about those and something in particular unique about the numbers, and I'll let you take it from there. Yeah.

So this is. Sometimes, I can't even recreate how I found some of these stories, but I think what happened was I I was looking, somehow I'd come across the story about Caltech. So California technology.

And right there, you know, it's going to be something wacky when that school name and football come together. There's something going to be. Yeah.

Well, they don't play football anymore, at least at the varsity level. But they did for a long time. You know, they had success in the California small college circuit, you know, the Occidentals and the Whittiers and, you know, those kinds of schools.

And. But, you know, they sit in the school in Pasadena. And so, you know, one of the cool things about them is that there's a picture of one of their home games in the Rose Bowl, in 1933 or something.

But, you know, they played their games in Tournament Park before the Rose Bowl stadium was built and then in the Rose Bowl because they're literally right next door. And so anyways, you know, they did attract a couple of thousand fans to see a game under the lights and in the Rose Bowl. So, you know, kind of fun stuff.

I'm sure it had to be a big treat for any of the opposing teams to get a chance to play there. But so somehow, I came across them. I actually wrote two stories in a row about Caltech because the previous tidbit was about the face shields that they wore in the 1940s and 41st centuries.

And but they ended up, you know, they were basically shields to allow guys who wore glasses to play football. And this is before face masks, you know, were common. And so somehow, in searching through their yearbooks, I came across a couple of pictures where it's like, what is going on with those jerseys? And so what they had was, you know, for want of a better term, two two-toned numerals on the jerseys.

So they they only had numbers on the backs. They didn't have them on the front. But that they had, you know, a wide, a dark, wide stripe that ran through the sleeves and then the body and maybe, you know, just above the belly button, but not all the way up at the chest.

And so it's probably a six-inch wide, seven-inch wide stripe. And because that thing was there when they put the numbers on, you know, they couldn't have like a dark number. Because it would have overlapped with the dark stripe.

And then, on the rest of the jersey, where it's white, they couldn't have a white number. So what they did was they had a two-tone number. So on the dark where, you know, where it went over the dark stripe, it was a white number.

But then, above the stripe, it was dark. Yeah. So let me let me cut in here real quick here, folks.

If you want to, Tim will explain this. You can see a great example of it. We have the link in the show notes to take you right to Tim's football archaeology dot com site.

He's got some great images of what he's talking about there. So you can appreciate that. So I'm sorry.

Go ahead, Tim. Yeah. So, yeah, I should I should have mentioned that myself.

But so the thing is, you know, I mean, like, I literally track every college yearbook that I look at, you know, just to make sure I have covered this turf before or not. And, you know, I probably need to go through a bunch of them just because I'll see new things. But I've looked at, like, now, I'm just under thirty-four hundred old college yearbooks that I've paged through to look at the, you know, the football section.

And I've never come across these two-toned numbers before, or at least I haven't noticed them. Anyway, I think they're unique. You know, I've seen like Penn used to have, or Penn probably still does.

And Harvard, both schools, I've seen like the P or the H logo where. There'd be a diagonal, you know, split, you know, from lower to lower to upper. And so one would be maroon, and the other would be white, and one would be blue and the other white.

So, you know, so if you can imagine that, if you've seen that logo, then that's basically what it looked like, except as a horizontal split, you know, upper and lower of the dark and the white. But anyway, it's just one of those weird things that thankfully never caught on. And as much as, you know, nowadays it used to be, you could only have Arabic letters, and then there were certain constraints; you could only use these typefaces.

Nowadays, there's so much. You know, basically unreadable. And I think I think they still there's just a greater number of fonts.

I think they can use what they've got. So we're going to have, you know, a certain size block number to be legal. I think even NCAA, because otherwise somebody like Oregon would be pushing the limits probably beyond what Caltech did in this case.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to.

Yeah, it's just, you know, I've seen too many like white on gray uniforms, you know, white numbers on gray uniforms. The fonts are all the things that they look like. They're from NASCAR.

They're just big, ugly. And so anyway. And don't get me started on colored fields because that's another story.

Yeah. Yeah, I know there's one blue one in particular. I don't even know if I can watch the games.

It drives me crazy. But great football there, but not the great field. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, this is just one of those things that is kind of bizarre.

I mean, I've never seen it. You know, it obviously didn't take off, and it didn't become popular, but, you know, maybe somebody else had one. If they do, reach out and let us know. Well, that's why we count on you for the bizarre football items.

And you definitely deliver those. And this is one of them. So we love it.

I mean, I think it's a great it's great conversational pieces. And you learn a lot about what people were trying to experiment with and innovate or try to gain an advantage over the other team or whatever. Personal style choice.

I don't know what you'd call this, but it's cool stuff. It's really interesting. So we appreciate that.

I mean, I've used it a couple of times, but it's the, you know, innovation versus oddity. You know, it's if people adopt it and, you know, it takes off, then, oh, you were innovative. But if you did something that everybody thinks, especially looking back, you know, 50, 60 years later, you know, what in the heck were they thinking? But why do those people have stripes down the middle of their helmets? What are they crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those things. Yeah. I know.

Wow. You know, if you could share with us, you know, the listeners so we can enjoy your tidbits because you have items like this, you know, seven days a week and you have you have some beauties that are come on there like this and you'll get a good chuckle out of her. Just be entertained for, you know, a few minutes and talk about the people at the work around a water cooler next day or whatever.

But he's well; you're having a few cold ones. It's a great way to do it and get some football history every single day. So, Tim, could you share how the folks could join you in that?

They appreciate that. Sure. You know, the best way to do it is just to go to football archaeology dot com and subscribe.

You can do that for free. And then, you know, basically, you'll get an email from me every night at seven o'clock Eastern. I'm also on the substack platform on on Twitter and on threads.

So and all under the same name, football archaeology. Well, Tim Brown, thank you very much once again for talking to us about some great football history and your football archaeology dot com tidbits. And we will talk to you again next Tuesday.

Very good. Thank you very much. Have a good one.

Love the football jersey designs and evolution wait till you check out the History of American Football Jersey.

-Football Jersey Frequently Asked Questions

-What are American football jerseys made of? Modern jerseys are a mix of synthetic fibers such as polyester or a blend of different materials such asspandex, for more check out our in-depth study ofThe Make up and Materials of Football Jerseys.

-What are some of the unique football jerseys in history? Gridiron jerseys with logos on the front were some what of fad once upon a time. Check this story titled Football Jerseys with Emblems.

-Whose college football jersey was the first to be retired? Red Grange's Number 77 Ilinois Illini jersey was the first college uni to be shelved in 1925. There were a couple more about the same time and we chatted with a college football expert historian help divulge College Football and its First Retired Jerseys.

-When did football jerseys start having numbers on them? Though there was documented talk of it since 1894, players did not all wear digits in a game until the 1905 Iowa State at Drake game, check this out more on this storyThe Origins Of Football Player Numbers.

-Who are some of the most famous NFL players at each jersey number? From Red Grange's jersey number 77 to Tom Brady's iconic number 12, a slew of NFL players made their digits proud. Want to know more? You are in the right place as we covered all 100 jersey numbers and the best to wear each:About Football By Numbers.

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Football Archaeology takes a snap shot look at the first time plastic helmets were introduced to live football games, and a bit on their creator, John Riddell.

The year 1940 marked a significant milestone in the evolution of American football, particularly with the Northwestern Wildcats facing off against the Syracuse Orangemen in a historic game that would forever change the sport. What set this matchup apart wasn't just the clash between two formidable teams, but the introduction of a revolutionary innovation: plastic helmets. This game, held on October 5th, became the first-ever instance in college football where both competing teams donned these newly developed protective headgear.

Prior to the adoption of plastic helmets, football players relied on leather headgear that offered limited protection against the physical rigors of the game. The innovation of plastic helmets, however, represented a leap forward in player safety and comfort. Spearheaded by Riddell, the company responsible for this groundbreaking advancement, the plastic helmets featured a hard outer shell that provided better impact absorption and reduced the risk of head injuries.

In the context of the 1940 Northwestern at Syracuse game, the debut of plastic helmets symbolized more than just a technological upgrade. It underscored a growing awareness within the football community about the importance of player safety—a theme that continues to resonate in today's game. The decision by both teams to embrace this new equipment reflected a proactive approach to protecting their athletes, setting a precedent that would eventually become standard across all levels of football.

Moreover, the game itself was a testament to the competitive spirit and evolving strategies within college football. Northwestern, under the guidance of head coach Pappy Waldorf, brought a disciplined and dynamic offense to the field, while Syracuse, led by head coach Ossie Solem, countered with their own aggressive defensive tactics. The combination of innovative helmets and strategic gameplay made the 1940 matchup not only a pivotal moment in football history but also a captivating spectacle for fans and players alike.

Beyond its immediate impact, the introduction of plastic helmets in the 1940 Northwestern-Syracuse game foreshadowed the ongoing evolution of football equipment and safety standards. It highlighted the sport's capacity for adaptation and improvement, emphasizing the continuous efforts to enhance player welfare while preserving the essence of competitive athletics.

In conclusion, the 1940 Northwestern at Syracuse football game stands as a landmark event where innovation met tradition, ushering in a new era of safety and performance in American football. By embracing plastic helmets for the first time, both teams not only safeguarded their players but also paved the way for future advancements that would shape the game we know and love today.

Love the helmet designs and evolution wait till you check out the College Football helmet history of schools.

-Frequently Asked Questions

-Who was the first player to wear a football helmet? We have your answer in our in-depth study ofthe first to wear a helmet.

-What is the history of each college team and their helmet designs? Check out many of them with our series College Football helmet history of schools.

-How come some teams have player numbers on their helmets? We asked this question too and had a college football expert historian help divulge helmet numbers history.

-Why do some teams like Michigan and Delaware look so odd and similar? It's really uncanny isn't it that the Wolverines and Blue Hens look the same, check this out for a reason when helmets had wings.

-What do stickers on college football helmets mean? Some of them look really crazy but there is some goos reason for the extra adornments and we have the scoop Why all the stickers on some football helmets?.

When did football helmets change from leather to plastic? Just after World War II saw the most abrupt changes, we have more in this in our chat with an expert:When helmets changed from leather to plastic.

Born February 23, 1877, in Lisle, New York, was the incredible guard of Princeton University, William Hanford "Big Bill" Edwards.

Big Bill is famous for a few things in history; he played and officiated some big games on the football field. None was more challenging than being the ref for the 1906 Massillon Tigers versus the Canton Bulldogs game that sparked a scandal that almost ruined pro football.

"Big Bill" Edwards left an enduring mark on the early days of American football, primarily through his impactful college career at Princeton University. Here's a look at his contributions to the sport:  

-College Career

-Edwards played guard for the Princeton Tigers football team from 1896 to 1899.  

-He was a dominant force on the field known for his size and strength.  

-Notably, he was a key player on Princeton's national championship teams in 1898 and 1899.  

-His peers respected him so much that he was elected team captain for two years.  

-His time at Princeton established him as one of the preeminent football players of his era.  

In the early days of football, the professional game was not what it is today. Edwards was primarily a college player.  
After his college career, he was involved in football by being an official and coaching and even wrote a book on football titled “Football Days.”. One of our football friends, Peter S., points out that the book is available on the web for free.

Big Bill also was part of some roughhousing that involved the game officials The Umpire Strikes Back?. Thanks to Timothy Brown of FootballArchaeology.com we have an account of the mele. Umpire Strikes Back

-Big Bill Edwards was a Life-Saving Hero of a Government Official

The event showcasing William "Big Bill" Edwards's remarkable bravery occurred on August 9, 1910, as Mayor William Jay Gaynor of New York City prepared to board the SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse. The mayor was about to embark on a European vacation when James Gallagher approached him. Without warning, Gallagher drew a pistol and fired, striking Mayor Gaynor.

Amid the chaos that ensued, "Big Bill" Edwards, who was present at the scene, reacted with extraordinary speed and decisiveness. Edwards, known for his imposing physical stature from football days, immediately tackled Gallagher, effectively subduing the would-be assassin. In the process of restraining the attacker, Edwards himself sustained a minor flesh wound. However, his swift action prevented Gallagher from further harming the mayor or anyone else present.

The incident caused a sensation, and Edwards was widely hailed as a hero. His courageous intervention was credited with saving Mayor Gaynor's life. This heroism added another remarkable chapter to the life of "Big Bill" Edwards, further solidifying his reputation as a man of exceptional character. For his bravery, Edwards was awarded the Carnegie Medal for Heroism.

-Football Legacy

-Edwards' legacy is firmly rooted in his exceptional college performance and contributions to early football development.  

-His presence on those dominant Princeton teams helped solidify the program's place in football history.

-Edwards also contributed to the history of football by writing a book called "Football Days" in 1916. This book is a valuable first-hand account of 19th-century college football.  

-Big Bill's induction into the College Football Hall of Fame in 1971 is a testament to his lasting impact.

-Accolades, Awards and Career Stats

-2× National champion (1898, 1899)  

-First-team All-American (1899)  

-College Football Hall of Fame inductee (1971)  

"Big Bill" Edwards' influence extended beyond the football field. He was respected, and his contributions to the sport's early development are still recognized today.

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When you think you have heard it all, a football story like this is revealed! It's so strange you won't believe it, but this oddity occurred in the game a century ago when things were just a bit different.

I have heard of many strange situations that occurred during football games throughout the ages. Ill weather, lost balls, and even nonplayers and vehicles out on the field of play; however, when I read the Football Archaeology.com Tidbit titled Punting From Behind A Barbed Wire Fence.

It may just take the cake for being the strangest.

I appreciate Timothy Brown for sharing his time, knowledge, and incredible story from yesteryear.

We present this video to preserve the legacy of American football history.

-Full Transcription of Conversation with Timothy Brown on Punting Behind Barbed Wire



TBrown_PuntBehindBarbedWire_1

⏰Wed, 05/01 04:44AM · 12mins

Transcript

Darin Hayes:
We have a great day planned for you today on this episode. Timothy P. Brown of footballarchaeology.com is joining us just like he does each and every Tuesday. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Timothy Brown:
Darin, thank you. How are you doing this evening?

Darin Hayes:
I am doing great. And how about you?

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, can't complain, can't complain. Gonna get out of town in a few days and get away for a week. So that's nothing for me.

Darin Hayes:
Well, that's great because this winter time, it's almost like, uh, you know, especially us up in the colder climates, uh, a bit of a prisoner, almost like we're behind a barbed wire fence. And, uh, I had to stretch for that one to segue into our topic tonight. That's why Tim is laughing because he recently wrote a post he titled Punning from behind a barbed wire fence; Tim, that sounds like a pretty risky business there. And, uh, maybe you could explain this title.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, so this is one where there's like multiple rules involved that were current in 1907 when this event occurred but are long, you know, long gone from the game. So it's one, you know, I came across, I've done a couple of different articles from a series that ran in the 1920s called the most spectacular play I've ever seen. And they went out, and they interviewed a bunch of people about, you know, the most spectacular play they ever saw. And so this guy named Bill or CW Street mentioned a play that he in a game he had participated in. So, you know, just to kind of set up the stage a little bit. This guy CW played at Auburn for two years and then at Washburn and Lee. It was during his senior year, Washington Lee, in 1907, that this game occurred. But you know, he then went on. He was a track and wrestling official. And I mean that both in terms of, you know, help, like officiating, but also kind of managing as part of the, you know, the US Olympic teams for both as an administrator and official type, but he also was the field judge for the 1929 Rose Bowl, which is the game when Roy, you know, the "Wrong Way Riegels" play. So he was on the field for that play. So anyway, he saw some spectacular plays. And that was, you know, the wrong way. Riegels wasn't one of them, although I guess it actually wouldn't have occurred by the time the articles came up. So

Darin Hayes:
He might have changed his mind after that play, right? Yeah.

Timothy Brown:
So, so what happened with this guy was he was the captain of the W and L team, and they were playing Bucknell close game, and at one point, Bucknell drove the ball down to the three-yard line, and then they, the W and L's, defense held so the ball was turned over on downs. So back in that time, you know, if you had the ball inside your 10, it was very common that you pumped it on first out. And so he's saying, yeah, that's what we're going to do. But in this particular instance, the, you know, back then they didn't have hash marks. So if the play ended over towards the sideline or the previous play ended over towards the sideline, that's where the next play started. And then this is 1907, so they didn't have end zones yet. They had a goal line but no end line, no end zones. And so, in a lot of locations, since the ball couldn't, the only way you could score a touchdown was to run the ball across the goal line. You could catch a pass, a forward pass in 1907. But if the ball in the air or bounding went across the goal line, it was a turnover. It was basically a touchback. So, basically, you didn't need the depth in the end zone. It was like all you needed was across the end zone. And so, as a result, they could fit playing fields into pretty tight spaces. And there might be a wall just beyond the end zone in a stadium like the Polo Grounds. So, in this case, on one side of the end zone, there was a barbed wire fence a little bit behind the end zone. And so the street asks the referee, can we move the ball over to the other side of the field so that we can punt? And the referee says, I understand why you want to do that, but no, you can't. That's not within the rules. We can't just move the ball through the other side of the field. So the streets are like, okay, we're playing by the rules. So I'm going to play by the rules, too. So what he does is he, he has his punt, he tells his punter to go on the other side, go through the gate, lock the gate, and then go on the other side of the barbed wire fence and stand there to be ready to take the snap. So that's what the punter does. So he's back there. He gets a snap, and the Bucknell defenders start racing toward him, but they stop before they get to the barbed wire fence, and they can't figure out how to get to the guy. In the meantime, his people are running him down the field. And he's just kind of waiting there, ready to, he's waiting to punt the ball until his teammates get downfield. And now, the other thing about the rules of the time was in 1906; they made the, you know, what they call for a while the quarterback kick or the onside punt. In 1906, they made it so that if you punted the ball, any one of your teammates could recover the ball and advance it. You know, they had as much right as the return man. So by the time he punted it, they had, you know, 10 of his teammates downfield than just one return man. So they ended up recovering the ball, you know, W and R, you know, recover the ball. Unfortunately, they ended up with the same guy who was the punter on another occasion; he was back to punt, stepped behind the end zone, or I should say behind the goal line and was tackled for a safety. So they end up losing the game two to nothing. But it is the only known game in which a punt was made from behind a barbed wire fence. If anybody else knows of any others, let me know.

Darin Hayes:
It introduces your chance of getting your kick blocked.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, yeah, that's great cup protection. You know, I've got a nice barbed wire fence in front of you.

Darin Hayes:
Think about the pressure on the long snapper, though. He's got to make sure he clears that fence or, you know, there could be some trouble there.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, they only used one ball at the time, so if that ball had popped. Thank you.

Darin Hayes:
Well, but even now, okay. Let's say he snaps that ball at the rules at that time, and it hits the wire, the fence, and drops it straight down. That's a loose ball, right? So you're going to have these guys going in for a fumble next to a barbed wire fence and trying to recover. Ooh, boy. Holy porcupines, Batman. That sounds like a bad one.

Timothy Brown:
Kind of a prickly situation.

Darin Hayes:
Yeah, that's for sure. Well, I'll tell you what, Tim, you, uh, you, you definitely, uh, go through it, and you will find some interesting ones. That's, that's a good one. I would have never even ever thought of, uh, that being, uh, you know, but if, yeah, but there's no, uh, no end zones, there's no out of bounds. So it probably goes on forever, too.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, it's an infinite end zone or infinite goal area.

Darin Hayes:
Very, very interesting. Really makes you think on that one. Uh, yeah.

Timothy Brown:
And again, I mean, there's the, you know, just the difference in the, you had the, the on-site punt, you know, you had the, the ball over, you know, without hash marks, the balls over near the sideline. There's no, no end zone. You know, it's just a lot of different rules, you know, in place.

Darin Hayes:
It's amazing how much the game has evolved, and I think we're probably all grateful for it, except for maybe the punters. Maybe they would still want the rule to be like you just described so they could have some extra protection.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, well, I'll do a little reading on the rule book tonight see if they have any any specific mentions barbed wire fences.

Darin Hayes:
Well, I wonder, I mean, I wonder if it would have, what would have happened? It's like some of the stadiums you described where the goal line was very close to the wall of possibly the stands. Yeah. Would the punter be able to stand in the stands if the snapper could get it up to where he was and kick from an elevated position or really? Yeah, presumably. Yeah.

Timothy Brown:
Um, you know, I mean, it's just like, you know, the one, you know, fumbles out of bounds, you know, they, the ball was not dead when it went out of bounds back then. So, you know, tumbling over water buckets, over cinder tracks, all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, and it was, you know, a little bit of the reason why they kept everybody seated along the sidelines was, I mean, it was by rule, they, you know, teams were limited to like two or three or five rules varied over the years, but you can only have a certain number of people standing along the sidelines. Everybody else had to be kneeling or seated. So, you know, that's why you see in the old photographs, everybody's sitting on the bench.

Darin Hayes:
Well, as a former sideline official, I'm so jealous of those times when everybody sat on a bench. It would have been lovely. Yeah. Wow. Well, great job, Tim, uh, you know, you have such interesting little pieces like that, uh, your tidbits on football archaeology .com. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about how they too can partake in, uh, enjoying, uh, football archaeology's, uh, information and content?

Timothy Brown:
Yep, so you just go to footballarcheology.com. I mean, obviously, you can just go there whenever you want, but if you want to subscribe, you can subscribe for free. That gives you access to about a third of the emails I send out; you'll get and get full access to the other article or to the article; the others, you can preview the article, and then it kind of cuts off on you. Then, the paid subscription is five bucks a month, and they're 50 bucks a year. You can do a seven-day trial for free, that kind of stuff. I also post on threads and Twitter. I'm not really active on threads; I just post there and then on Twitter, you know, a couple of times a week, I'm posting something in reaction to what somebody else has said and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, fun conversations occur out there on Twitter.

Darin Hayes:
His name is Timothy Brown:. Football archeology.com is his website. Tim, we really appreciate you joining us and telling us about this very interesting piece of football history, and love to do it again next week.

Timothy Brown:
Very good. Thank you.