College Football

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American football uniforms in the 1930s were a far cry from the sleek, high-tech gear of today. Here's a breakdown of their characteristics:

Materials:

-Dominated by wool: Helmets, jerseys, pants, and even socks were primarily made of wool. This material was readily available, durable, and offered some warmth in colder weather. However, it could be heavy, uncomfortable when wet, and restrict movement.

-Limited use of leather: Leather was used for some elements like helmet padding and occasionally for reinforcement on key areas of jerseys and pants.

-However, full leather uniforms were expensive and not as common. But other materials such as silk were being experimented with.

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-Loose-fitting: Jerseys and pants were baggy and offered a wide range of motion. This wasn't just for comfort; the padding used in the early days was minimal, and looser clothing allowed players to add layers underneath for protection.

-Limited padding: Compared to modern uniforms with extensive padding, 1930s uniforms offered minimal protection. Helmets had basic leather padding for the head, but jerseys and pants offered little to no impact absorption.

-Simple designs: Jerseys typically featured a single team color with contrasting numbers or lettering on the front, back, and sometimes the sleeves. Logos were rare, and any designs were basic and often embroidered.

-Leather helmets: Helmets in the 1930s were primarily made of leather with minimal padding. They offered some protection from scrapes and minor impacts but were far less effective than the hard-shelled helmets with advanced padding used today. Leather straps secured the helmets to the players' heads, and facemasks were not yet a standard feature.

Key Points:

-Focus on functionality: Unlike today's uniforms with an emphasis on aesthetics and branding, 1930s uniforms prioritized practicality and durability.

-Evolving towards safety: The 1930s saw some early attempts at improving player safety, with the introduction of rudimentary padding in helmets and the gradual shift away from heavy metal cleats that could cause serious injuries.

-Distinct from modern uniforms: The overall look of 1930s uniforms feels almost quaint compared to the modern versions. The lack of sophisticated materials, simple designs, and focus on functionality offer a glimpse into a bygone era of football.

Love the football jersey designs and evolution wait till you check out the History of American Football Jersey.

-Football Jersey Frequently Asked Questions

-What are American football jerseys made of? Modern jerseys are a mix of synthetic fibers such as polyester or a blend of different materials such asspandex, for more check out our in-depth study ofThe Make up and Materials of Football Jerseys.

-What are some of the unique football jerseys in history? Gridiron jerseys with logos on the front were some what of fad once upon a time. Check this story titled Football Jerseys with Emblems.

-Whose college football jersey was the first to be retired? Red Grange's Number 77 Ilinois Illini jersey was the first college uni to be shelved in 1925. There were a couple more about the same time and we chatted with a college football expert historian help divulge College Football and its First Retired Jerseys.

-When did football jerseys start having numbers on them? Though there was documented talk of it since 1894, players did not all wear digits in a game until the 1905 Iowa State at Drake game, check this out more on this storyThe Origins Of Football Player Numbers.

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The modern-day football helmet seems to be changing almost annually to make the game safer. At no time since the inception of wearing protective headgear did it change more drastically than when leather helmets were replaced with the new plastic technology?

One of the top experts in early football rules history Timothy P. Brown joins us in the discussion to chat about the transition of the material composition of helmets. Timothy Brown's FootballArchaeology.com has a daily football factoid that he shares that is really quite interesting in a short read.

This chat is based on Tim's original Tidbit titled: Transitioning from Leather to Plastic.

-Transcribed Leather to Plastic Helmets with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends, this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And we like to look down that portal every Tuesday and go into some football archaeology with our friend Tim Brown of that very site, Football Archaeology. Tim Brown, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Thanks for having me back. Looking forward to chatting once again.

Yeah, we are really enjoying these these Tuesday meetings that we have and, you know, talking about some different aspects of football that are sort of some of them are a little out there. They're not directly related to the game. Some are very directly related to the game, but they're all very interesting indeed, and we really appreciate you sharing these with us.

Yeah. You know, I just love football in all dimensions, including the technical side of the game, the fan experience, and how it's handled in the media. And so equipment and uniforms, all that kind of stuff.

And so, you know, I just try to approach it from a different place, you know, every couple of days to, you know, basically try to mix it up, you know, try to do some different things. Well, I'm glad you said you would like to talk about the uniforms and some of the equipment because I think that's a subject I'd like to discuss today because you had a recent tidbit out, and you called it the transition from leather to plastic. It's one of those things that's not directly involved in the game of football, but it's such an important element of it and such a big change that happened to the game.

And I'd sure like to hear about it. Yeah, well, I mean, I think the development of plastic helmets and then, you know, metal-reinforced face masks is one of the defining elements of today's game. And so, I mean, obviously, a lot happened before that, but the game just has changed dramatically as a result of that development.

So, you know, I think the thing that's that, you know, maybe people don't recognize it when they, with the Intercollegiate Football Association, adopted word for word effectively, adopted the rugby rules in 1876. I mean, they changed three or four rules, but nothing, nothing really significant. Well, one of the rules that came along from rugby was a rule that basically said that you could not players could not wear anything that had a hard substance.

And they cited a substance called gutta-percha, which was some kind of rosin or, you know, it was basically like what we might think of as an early plastic. And, you know, it came off of trees from Indonesia or whatever. But so, you know, anything that was hard could not be worn on the uniform.

So, you know, all the protective gear early on was soft leathers. Right. So when they had any kind of head harness, there's a softer leather is heavily padded, both on the outside and inside.

You know, the shoulder pads that they wore were, you know, fairly just pads filled with felt and horsehair and things like that. They used a little bit of sole leather, which is harder leather, on helmets for a little bit around the turn of the last century. And then they got rid of those.

They basically outlawed them. So so then, you know, football went, you know, continued with this no hard substances thing and then, you know, for decades. And then they kind of started allowing a little bit more sturdy helmets.

Right. Those still those tended to be fairly soft on the outside. But then in 1940, Rydell introduced plastic helmets and Northwestern was first team to wear them.

A few other teams had them early on. And then they also the U.S. Army got a hold of them and actually borrowed helmets from West Point and then basically modified it. And then Rydell became a supplier to the Airborne.

So, you know, Airborne trainees wore Rydell football helmets when they were jumping out of airplanes. You know, you see images of that here and there. But so, the football helmet preceded the crash helmet that the pilots were wearing.

Yeah. So until then, you know, there were people who tried, you know, I mean, if you think about the early guys in planes flying around like gliders. All right.

There was a if you were if you're going to hit the ground, you were really going to hit the ground. And so, you know, they tried to do tried to wear various types of pads on their head. But again, it was more like a football helmet.

And a lot of them, you think about the World War one ace and Snoopy and everything, you know, they're just wearing a leather kind of hood. But so they ended up. They started, you know, they used the because of World War two supply issues, they really couldn't produce any more civilian helmets.

So it really wasn't until after World War two that the helmets kicked in the plastic ones. And so they they were adopted pretty, pretty quickly. But there were still a lot of people holding out there.

You know, folks who just thought these things were too hard. They're causing a lot of injuries. Most guys didn't wear face masks at the time.

So, you know, you got hit in the face by a hard helmet. You know, that didn't feel that good. So and, you know, that's, I think, part of the reason why additional people started wearing face masks.

But yeah, I mean, it was just there was this constant battle of should we retain more of the rugby element where you don't pad up and then let the game go wherever it goes, or do we try to protect players from, you know, I mean, what the plastic helmet did was it protected people from skull fractures. Right. I mean, the leather helmet did that to some extent, but not really.

Plastic helmets did do that, but again, they came at the cost of now you're hitting somebody else with a hard plastic helmet. And then coaches started teaching, you know, spearing and things like that. And, you know, some of the blocking changed to take advantage of the hard helmet.

But they eventually outruled all of that or outlawed all of that. So anyway, it was just kind of an interesting period of time. And, you know, really, I think basically by 61 or 62, pretty much everybody had been switching over to plastic helmets.

You can still buy them, but you can still buy leather, is what I meant. But typically, it was, they're selling, you know, pretty much all over or all. So, it was such a long period of time to, you know, like over a decade, it sounds like maybe a couple of decades for that transition; it wasn't like a wide sweeping change where they, you know, the rules maker said next year, everybody wears plastic helmets.

So you had games for probably some participants were wearing leather and some were wearing plastic. Is that true? Oh yeah. Yeah.

And in fact, so the this, that, that tidbit about the transitioning from leather to plastic, there's an image or two that shows some guys wearing the old leather helmets with the straps, you know, crossing the head or crossing the, you know, the top of the helmet. And then other guys, what's clearly a plastic helmet. So, you know, I think through probably 1949, 50, you would see a lot of that.

And then after that, it became, you know, there were just certain people who just, Hey, this is a helmet I always wore. I wore it in high school. So I'm going to continue wearing it.

You had guys who didn't wear helmets at all. You know, you had the Tommy McDonald's of the world, um, in the NFL who didn't wear a helmet. Um, so, but you know, I think there were just some old school coaches who didn't, you know, who just thought that the, the leather helmet was safer.

Um, I think they were wrong, but that's what they thought, you know? So, um, but the, you know, the other thing was that you know, the, you know, the leather helmet, there was like, it kind of, it wasn't a suspension system, but there were, you know, there was padding inside of it, then, the early plastic helmets were all suspension systems, you know, and I don't know if you ever wore one of those, but I did, you know, and there was, you know, it didn't offer anywhere near as much protection as the padded and the airfield ones that, you know, I was able to wear a little bit later. Um, but you know, the other thing that, you know, you, you mentioned about, you know, there wasn't a rule that said you had to wear a plastic helmet, um, that still really didn't come into place. Um, the, um, the national testing organization, I think it's people call it Noxie, but N O C S A E always got the little stamp on the back of the helmet.

Um, that opened its doors in 68, started certifying helmets in 73. And it wasn't until 78 that the NCAA required anyone playing in a game to have one of those stickers on their helmet. That's I didn't realize it was as recent as that.

I was thinking it was back in the fifties or sixties, but yeah, very interesting. That, you know, it was, um, you know, there was, there was a lot of, you know, testing, a lot of universities were involved in testing the helmet quality. Um, Wayne state, uh, here in the Detroit area was big.

Michigan was big on it. Uh, North Carolina was big on it. So, you know, there were various, um, uh, Northwestern did a bunch of.

Uh, testing in the early sixties with like sensors to measure how hard, you know, the level of contact and, you know, the strength of the hits that were occurring. So, anyway, it was all academic research. And so it wasn't until somewhere in the seventies that they really kind of figured out and had a reasonable set of standards that they could even try to enforce.

Isn't it kind of interesting that, uh, sort of the more things change, the more they stay the same? Now we are seeing teams; all the NFL teams, I think, had to wear the guardian cap over their hard shell, which is a softening. I'm not sure exactly what the materials, but I know it's, it's like a dead deadens, any blows that you take it to the head, uh, where you, you know, instead of having that impact, you know, hard plastic, the hard plastic, whatever the materials they make them out of now.

And, uh, it almost goes back to those days of the, the leather of, you know, that impact, but you still have the hard shell underneath it to give that extra protection. So I'm actually, uh, writing an article on the history of the pad, you know, the external pads, uh, just, you know, partly driven by, you know, kind of the prevalence of the, the guardian, uh, pads, but, you know, so it's, it's an interesting thing. There was a Cornell did a lot of development work on that and, you know, their, their students or their players wore, I think it was just a strip, um, you know, through the middle, but the challenge that they had initially with the external padding was, um, that the, like if it's plastic to plastic, it's fairly clean hit boom.

It's that's it. Whereas with the padding that they had then the, the two helmets stayed in contact with one another and increased the force and increased some of the torque. So that was part of the reason why that never really went forward.

And I think that's probably still part of the case, but I know I'm not enough of a technologist to know that. Just as a side note, I think you probably remember the pro caps in the 1990s. I think a couple of members of the Buffalo Bills wore them.

Um, they were the sort of like that, um, almost like a styrofoam, almost like a wrestling mat type material that you'd put over the top of the helmet. Those were made, uh, or actually found by a guy about five, 10 miles from here, founded them here near Pennsylvania. And they were making those.

So, but never, never took off though. Well, actually I think it's called the thing was called materials called Insolite, but that's the stuff that Cornell initially put on top of their helmets and then Ohio state, Oklahoma, Duke, others use them. Um, that was also Insolite was the first material used to create the initial like wrestling mats that weren't made of horsehair and felt and all that stuff.

So, there's a connection between the two. I mean, it was sort of what I described as a wrestling mat. I wasn't too far off then.

Oh, very interesting. Well, Tim, you did it once again, you educated us on something that was a little bit off the beaten path that, uh, maybe us football fans wouldn't pay attention to, but you're keen. I caught another one and we appreciate that.

Uh, why don't you let folks know, uh, where, where they can find more of your material and, uh, follow you on social media? Yeah. So, um, you can just find me at, uh, footballarchaeology.com. Uh, there's an option.

There's always an option to subscribe. And if you subscribe, you'll get the content into your email box whenever I post anything, which is at least once a day. Um, otherwise follow me on Twitter.

Um, and again, just look for football archaeology, and you should be able to find me. Okay. Tim Brown and football archaeology.

Thank you very much. Once again, we'll talk to you next week.

Okay, cool. Thanks, Darin.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

-Frequently Asked Questions

-Who was the first player to wear a football helmet? We have your answer in our in-depth study ofthe first to wear a helmet.

-What is the history of each college team and their helmet designs? Check out many of them with our series College Football helmet history of schools.

-How come some teams have player numbers on their helmets? We asked this question too and had a college football expert historian help divulge helmet numbers history.

-Why do some teams like Michigan and Delaware look so odd and similar? It's really uncanny isn't it that the Wolverines and Blue Hens look the same, check this out for a reason when helmets had wings.

-What do stickers on college football helmets mean? Some of them look really crazy but there is some goos reason for the extra adornments and we have the scoop Why all the stickers on some football helmets?.

Timothy P. Brown of Football Archaeology shares his research and a keen eye for unique helmet designs. This episode focuses on the "winged" helmet design and the homage paid to it by a few teams in the modern era.

Our conversation is based on a Tidbit of Tim's he titled: When Leather Helmets Earned Their Wings.

-Transcribed Winged Helmets with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends, Darin Hayes, PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pig Pen. And we have another great episode where we're going to talk to the resident expert, who says that we, well, are not our residents, but we go to footballarchaeology.com residents and talk to their great founder and historian, Timothy P. Brown. Tim, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Darin, thank you. I have a leather helmet sitting here in front of me. Uh, I no longer, it no longer fits.

Yeah, I can see your name etched in the back of it there for, from your, from your playing days, I assume. No, this was for my uncle's playing days. Really? Okay.

So that is a genuine game-playing helmet, then? It's not a game that used Spalding helmets. And, uh, I actually did wear this in my backyard football day days in my youth. When the other neighborhood kids had those plastic, cheap plastic little things, I didn't have one of those.

So I pulled this baby out and protected my noggin. Well, Hey, it, uh, it's in your logo too. So that's, that's always a good thing too, or something similar to it.

So that's great. So folks, if you didn't realize it yet, our topic today is going to be a tidbit that Tim just a little while ago called when leather helmets earned their wings. So we're gonna get some history on these leather helmets that Tim just showed us.

So, Tim, I'll let you take it away. Yeah. So, you know, I think it's, uh, so, you know, fashion and styles are, you know, everybody's got their own tastes, right?

And I have made public my, um, my belief that the 1930s produced the ugliest football uniforms. I've written a poster too on that and provide photographic evidence, uh, which no one has been able to refute so far. Uh, I mean, it just, they just had stripes going.

There were so many stripes, uh, on some of those uniforms that it was just ungodly ugly. But the 1930s also produced winged helmets, which, um, now people associate, uh, typically with Michigan, Delaware, uh, Princeton, and then there's probably, you know, 300 high schools spread across the country that wear those ugly things. But so as not to offend you, if you're a fan of one of those teams, they're still ugly.

So, but then, the point, the real point is not, you know, I mean, I'm an equal opportunity ugliness kind of historian. So, I am willing to discuss the origins of wings and winged helmets. And I think really the funniest thing about them is that they, the first team to wear winged helmets, was not Michigan, but Ohio State, which is just kind of a fun little.

That's really ironic. Yes. So, so what happened, you know, um, in 1930, there were some new rules put in place that required helmets to have different colors or at least contrasting colors.

Now that could be done either by painting them or by, um, you know, I think most people are familiar with the straps that ran across the tops and there were different patterns, including, you know, what we now think of as kind of the Michigan helmet. There were straps running along the crown of the helmet. And so those could be painted or oftentimes when they produce the helmets, it would be the leather would be in different colors.

So the straps might be a dark Brown or a light Brown, and the rest of it, you know, you know, different variation. Um, but they did that because, in the late twenties, there were people who were, you know, uh, on their shirts, on the front of their jerseys, and on their, uh, on the inside of their arms and things. And they'd wear them in the same color as some of them would wear them in the same color as the football.

So then people were confusing the leather on the iron with the leather on the football. And there were even running backs who would like to toss their helmet off so that, you know, defenders would see the helmet bouncing along the ground and think that's a ball. So they kind of put it, put a stop to that, and they said, okay, your helmets have to have contrasting colors, uh, at the same time.

So there was, that was kind of a stylistic, but it also had a functional use. At the same time, the manufacturers were all trying to create better, more protective helmets. And one of the things that they all kind of did at the same time was to add pads on the front of the helmet about where, you know, the forehead is.

And so rather than just put a pad on there, which is what they had done previously, they started stylizing those pads. And so, um, you know, one version was the wing that we think of now where it kind of, you know, there's the, it kind of moves around a little bit, and then there's this, uh, you know, kind of these tips on either side, but there were, you know, that wasn't the only version. There were 20 or 30 different versions of these things.

Some of them were, I don't even know how to describe it. Cause I, I did some looking before we talked about the shape, but it's, um, it's like a cross between an upside down T and a shamrock with three, with three leaves, you know, that there's kind of had this bulb, bulges thing or bulbous thing, like where the wing would be, and then it would extend all the way up to the, to the top of the crown. So anyway, we're just a lot of different variations on these things.

And so the wings were functional because they pat, you know, they provide additional pads, but for the manufacturers, they were making them try to make them look cool, right? So that people would buy them. I mean, if it was between the DMN, DNM helmet, and the reach helmet, and they were the same price and presumably the same quality, well, whichever one looked cooler would be the one that you'd order. So, um, anyways, I mean, that's kind of the whole deal of it.

And the actual, um, tidbit shows a lot of pictures from sporting goods catalogs at the time. But what's happened is that despite there being many variations back then, every team that I see pretty much has the same today. You know, the same teams are all the teams today that use that winged look seem to pretty much have the same look, you know, they don't, you know, they don't, they don't use the other versions that were available.

So, if you're a high school coach or somebody out there who has an influence on helmet designs, you can go your own way and adapt to one of the looks from the thirties, which is something other than the Michigan helmet. Well, I'm going to have to, uh, make a true confession here that I didn't figure out that Michigan's helmet, 'cause that's the one that's the most popular of these winged helmets. I didn't realize, you know, it was a winged helmet.

I thought that was representing their mascot, the Wolverine. And I was trying to envision a Wolverine. I'm thinking, boy, Wolverines have stripes going down her back and down her sides like that.

And like the wings were sort of the ears of it. That's what I thought, you know, it was until I got into college and found out otherwise, but I never realized it was; they were sort of modeling it after the leather helmets that came before them on the plastic and whatever they make them out of now. But, uh, so very interesting.

So, I'm glad you felt comfortable sharing that with us. Yeah, I am. So there are probably people I'll get the mail coming in now.

You idiot. I mean, there's all kinds of things like that where, you know, I didn't realize that this is where that came from. Yeah.

I guess I never really put a lot of thought into it, but I just assumed it was a Wolverine. I mean, so, um, actually, in my book, How Football Became Football, I've got a picture of, I can't remember his name right now, but an offensive tackle for Ohio State and, you know, wearing the helmet from 1930. So, uh, proof positive that, uh, you know, Michigan didn't invent the things, but, you know, they're obviously the ones that are all associated with them.

And it takes a Wisconsin fan to point that out about the Michigan state. Actually, there's a Michigan state fan who has documented a fair amount of this stuff on the internet. So you want some others to, uh, to jump in on that big ten rivalries, uh, going back in history and picking on their headgear, uh, all good stuff.

Well, Tim, that was really enlightening. And I appreciate you coming on and sharing this tonight. Now you have these tidbits that come out each and every day, uh, seven days a week, 365; you're a busy guy and, uh, you, you like to share them, and you like people to enjoy them and comment and, uh, share them with other people.

Why don't you, uh, tell folks how they can get a hold of your tidbits on a daily basis? Sure. So, the easiest way is to go to footballarchaeology.com. Um, when you hit the site, if you haven't been there before, it's going to ask you to enroll or subscribe. All you have to do is just enter your email.

Uh, it's free. You'll get, uh, you'll get an email every night with whatever the story is for that day. And, uh, you can also follow me on Twitter.

You know, obviously, I'm going to throw out some other things on Twitter besides, you know, more commenting on somebody else's things, but I do share all my tidbits there, but subscribing just ensures you get it. And then you can, you know, it's in your inbox. You can ignore it for two weeks and then read whatever you want to read.

So, you know, that's kind of the value of subscribing to you. Um, but yeah, it's supposed to be fun, and hopefully, that's the way it comes across. All right.

Well, folks, I highly recommend you, uh, take Tim up on that offer to get the tidbits and whatever your preference is to get it and, uh, visit footballarchaeology.com and see the wisdom and knowledge of Timothy P. Brown in action. Tim, thanks a lot. And we will talk to you again next week.

Thank you, sir. Look forward to it.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

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The Football Archaeology of the Football Men Who Endorsed and helped Goldsmith Sporting Goods to make football equipment in 1935.

Helmets are probably the first piece of equipment we think of when someone asks us about football. The head covering may be the most recognizable element of the gridiron.

Timothy Brown, like many of us, is enamored by the evolution of the football helmet as a product and safety device. Tim collects football catalogs selling the equipment and then dives into the variations and innovations that were derived along the way.

In a recent post, 1935 GoldSmith Sports Equipment Consulting Staff, Tim delved into the 1935 Coaching Consultants and reps that GoldSmith had and then came on to share what he found with us on a podcast episode.

-Transcription of 1935 GoldSmith Sports Equipment Consulting Staff with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends, this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another Tuesday as we get to visit with our friend Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Thank you, sir. Look forward to chatting again, as always, and hopefully we'll have something interesting for people to listen to.

Yeah, you, Tim, you have some amazing things happening, you know, each and every day, and every once in a while you get some of these zingers that like, just like, I can't call it an earworm, I don't know what it is, it just, it stays with me all day when I read it. I read it in the evening and it stays with me through the night. I'm laying in bed thinking about it, wake up next morning, and one of those is, you keep going into the Goldsmith's catalog, and you had one that, you know, that you had back in September out as a tidbit that talks about some staff that Goldsmith's catalog got some information from, so maybe you could talk a little bit about that tonight.

Yeah, so, you know, so I guess, you know, first off, just, you know, by way of background, I have something on the order, you know, 30 or 40 vintage sporting goods catalogs, you know, so I collect them over time, or I've collected them over time, it's just a way to be able to look up, okay, well, you know, some of it's just images, you know, for the tidbits, but it's also just, you know, you can look at them and understand, okay, this is what this equipment was made of at the time, and how things changed and things that they created that disappeared because they didn't really work very well, or they were uncomfortable, you know, whatever it may have been. Anyways, I collect these catalogs, and most of them, I'm just, you know, I'm buying them online, and so I don't, typically, I'm only seeing like cover photographs, a couple of inside pages, but I don't know what, you know, it's not like, you know, it can be a 90 page catalog, but I'm only seeing images of a couple of them. Anyways, this was one of those, you know, I bought this, Goldsmith was a big brand at the time, and I didn't have a lot of Goldsmith catalogs, so I, you know, picked this one up.
And, you know, then once it was delivered, it was like, right away, okay, this is really cool, because in addition to just normal pages, showing the equipment, the pricing and everything for shoulder pads and helmets and whatever, each of the different major types of equipment, they had a lead in cartoon page that kind of told the history of that type of equipment, the history of football shoes, the history of helmets. And so, it was, number one, it's just kind of fun imagery, they're interesting cartoons. So, it was just a way to, you know, kind of go through those, and then, you know, what I've done, you know, it's a series of, there will be an eighth week now, but, you know, so it's just a way to publish, to do these, show these cartoons, and then just go through the equipment of the time.

And so, this is mid-30s, you know, so what was equipment like, you know, then. And so, this, the first of those cartoons was about what they called their consulting staff. And so, that was, you know, essentially, consulting staff was like, the coaches, and one trainer, who were their, like, their advisory staff, they were the guys who they would go to, to talk through, you know, what kinds of changes do we need for the equipment, or if they had a research and development group, they would show them, they'd show these coaches, hey, here's what we've come up with, what do you think about this? Can you have you guys wear this stuff in spring practice, or in regular practice, and see how it performs? You know, so they were, you know, obviously, these coaches were paid.

And in many cases, they, that, you know, the manufacturers would then, you know, just like your old baseball gloves, where it was like, the Mickey Mantle glove, or whatever, you know, there were, there were pants, and helmets, and footballs, that had the Newt Rockne name on it, or who met Pop Warner, and John Heisman, and, you know, so. Well, Tim, was, was Goldsmith, were they sort of in the Midwest? Is that what I'm getting a sense of? Or what part of the country were they centered out of? You know, a lot of the coaches that are on this advisory staff are Midwest guys. So, I kind of get a sense of that.

But, you know, there was a lot of Midwest, like D&M was out east, they were like a Massachusetts firm, but Spalding was Midwest, Reach, I believe, was Midwest, or a couple down in St. Louis. So, yeah, I don't have that catalog in front of me. But I could, you know, I could look, look it up.

And I can, you know, let you know, you know, kind of where they were based. Yeah, that's, that's what I was, Is there a reason you ask her? Well, I know that Spalding was out of Chicago, and it just seemed, you know, and it seems like, like you said, this, a lot of these coaches are Midwestern teams, Western Conference, Big Ten teams. And I just wondering, you know, if there was a reason why maybe, you know, distribution or something that they were in the center of the country because you really, you think about that area, you know, football starting in the east and moving west, you'd almost think the equipment would be more of an eastern-based, you know, industrial shipping out.

But just curious. Yeah, I think, well, my understanding is a lot of it was the stockyards in Chicago, you know, so there was access to leather. Okay, you know, so I mean, so much of the early equipment, yeah, so much of the early equipment was leather, that, you know, it made more sense to be where you could pick and choose and get high-grade leathers and yada, yada, yada.

So, yeah, I mean, it's funny, it's one of those things you wouldn't even think is, you know, there's no reason anymore, you know, to be near a source of leather.
Obviously, you know, baseball gloves are a different story. But otherwise, you know, most football equipment, there's no leather involved anymore.

And then the ball, you know, obviously, the balls were leather. So anyways, yeah, that's, that's why I love it, you know, started in the Midwest. That makes perfect sense.

Okay, thanks. Yeah, so, so then, you know, like these coaches were, you know, the folks that they had on at that point, so in 1935, they had a Hunk Anderson, who was at North Carolina State, but it just finished a tour at Notre Dame. So Midwest, then he had played at Notre Dame.

Noble Kizer was at Purdue. Fritz Crisler was at Princeton, but he had been at, he had played at Uof Chicago. He had coached Minnesota before going to Princeton.

And then obviously ended up at Michigan. Doc Spears had been all over. Well, he kind of he was a journeyman, he was actually a doctor, but a football coach, but he was at Wisconsin at the time.

And I can't remember if he had just gone there. I think he got fired after that, and then went out to Oregon, or it could have been the other way around. And then this guy, Frank Major Wandel, from Yale, who was, he was one of those interesting guys at the time, there were a lot of, it's kind of like, you know, there are these strength and conditioning coaches now who are, you know, kind of, they have their own brand, they're, they're nationally known, nationally recognized guys.

And, you know, back then, there were trainers like that, too. And he was one of them. So he'd been longtime trainer at West Point, and he ends up down at, I think it was LSU for a couple of years.

Then he ends up at Yale, which is where he was at at the time. So, so actually, the mix isn't that much Midwestern. But it's interesting, because the image that you have, and folks, if you've got to enjoy these images that Tim's talking about, we have link in the show notes, you can go to Tim's page and see some of these, he's talking about these cartoons.

But Major Wandel, you know, everybody else is sort of wearing like white knickers. And he's got like, I don't know if they're plaid knickers, or, but that's what jumps out of you on the page to me, is these knickers. And it's he's in the lower right hand corner of the page I'm looking at, but he must have been a character to have some like looks like he's golfing, maybe.

Yeah, I mean, he's one of those guys who just like came out of some gym in New Jersey, and ended up eventually hooking in with, he did some training, you know, during World War One, and then ends up at West Point for quite a while. But yeah, I mean, back then, trainers were function both. They handled both the kind of sports medicine side, you know, they weren't physicians.

But when we think about athletic training, we're thinking about, you know, hot baths, and cold baths, and, you know, taping guys, and, you know, some kind of contraption, you know, so it doesn't hurt, as well as strength and condition. So they were both at the time, and mostly conditioning, they didn't do as much strength work. But yeah, a lot of these guys were, you know, they're big on the whole, getting guys to roll on the ground to toughen them up.

Things that we now think are pretty absurd, but, you know, that was kind of core beliefs at the time. Yeah, I can remember back when I was playing when I was, like, I think the first year I played, maybe I was in fifth grade or something. I remember our coach, he was old school.

He was an older guy. And you'd have part of your calisthenics, you'd run in place, and then drop and make sure your stomach hits first, because that's going to toughen your gut up, you know, as everybody gets the wind knocked out of when you hit the ground, and you're gasping trying to get back up. But I picture that kind of training.

Yeah, that was the deal. But one of the things I thought was kind of cool, I can't remember, you know, which eater left this as a comment or a question, but, you know, I'm a Purdue fan. And, you know, there were a lot of schools back in the 30s that wore winged helmets, right? I mean, we now associated with just a select few schools.

But back then, it was very common. Nevertheless, you know, this guy made a comment that you know, back in the 30s, mid-30s, in particular, Purdue wore winged helmets, you know, so wing in front straps, you know, going back, kind of, you know, the Michigan, Delaware, Princeton style now. But she's like, so that's where you know because Noble was one of these advisory coaches.

And so I would bet if you look at images of the Purdue team from that era, there probably weren't some, some form of Goldsmith helmet, right? So as opposed to some competitive brand. So anyways, but for him, it was kind of a neat insight because it's like, so that's why they were those, those stupid. Now, with these coaches, sort of being on the board of directors, or the consultants of the now the day, is that, you know, their teams buy all their equipment from a Goldsmith, then is that was that's part of the deal of, you know, I've never really seen anything that goes into the details of those kinds of contracts.

I mean, I've read a few things about Knute Rockne because he was like, I mean if you think that there's somebody that, that is on every commercial nowadays, like, you know, save been, you know, down in Alabama's on a fair amount of stuff. But Rockne was, I mean, he was pitching, obviously, all kinds of athletic equipment. And then he pitched Ramblers or Studebakers, you know, one of those brands, he made coffee, he did all you know, stuff for Kelloggs, a lot of stuff for Kelloggs, and they had coffee at the time.

I just thought Barbasol was big on Barbasol. So he was from a Holmes and Travis Kelsey, eat your hearts out. Newt Rocky was first.

That's right. Major sponsor ambassador. Yeah.

Okay, so well, yes. Did the coach or did the teams buy that brand of equipment? And so I've never really, you know, I've never seen anything definitive. In that regard, and I have this kind of a storyline I've never checked into.

You know, I have read a number of things with Newt Rocky and his, you know, he, he promoted a lot of different kinds of consumer goods, but then also a lot of football equipment. So I mean, I have to believe that they, at minimum, they benefited from the, you know, they got discounts on the equipment, and in some cases, free stuff in order to test it, you know, it had to be that kind of thing going on. But, you know, the research I've done in the past about, you know, like when logos first came, you know, when logos became prominent in the 60s, really Adidas, you know, among track athletes that whole thing got going, and they were, you know, giving away equipment, paying athletes to wear their branded goods.

So that's really where that started. But there were probably, you know, less, you know, maybe a little bit less formal, you know, kinds of, you know, deals in the past, right? You know, yeah, I'm just picturing like a high school coach or athletic director saying, Hey, you know, Fritz Kreisler's endorsing this product, goldsmith, we better write our equipment there, because, you know, we're, we're Fritz Kreisler fans, or, you know, you know, Hunky Anderson fans, whatever, you know, they see they're endorsing it. And, you know, that's probably a lot of the attraction from for having them on the covers.

Yeah. And, you know, I'm sure they got that they got paid something just like, you know, the baseball gloves. And, you know, those athletes got things, and somehow they get money when their gloves are sold.

Right. So right. But, you know, the details of it, I don't understand, or, you know, really know anything about.

I wonder, I picture, you know because you have some great images of the helmets. I wonder maybe, you know, we can look back at some old photographs. Maybe I'll do that in some spare time here and look and see if you can tell a goldsmith helmet from, you know, a Spalding or some of the other manufacturers.
And maybe you can tell that way and say, Hey, you know, Purdue was wearing a goldsmith in 37 or. Yeah. And yeah.

Well, even in that article, I did do that. I couldn't find a good sharp image of the Princeton team from that era to see, well, what helmet they wore? Well, in fact, what I, the only thing I really found was a, it was a painting or an illustration from a year, you know, Princeton yearbook. And the helmets of Princeton players are wearing what we think of as a classic winged helmet.

It was. There's a helmet style. It kind of looks like, now I'm blanking on the term, but it's kind of like a three-leaf clover sort of design. It's, you know, so anyway, but, you know, and Goldsmith offered that helmet and, or that style of helmet, but I think others did as well.

So sometimes it's hard to tell like what brand, because, you know, people, you know, they, they wore, you know, they had similar designs, you know, different brands. Okay. Gotcha.

All right. So go ahead and continue. Yeah.

Well, I was mostly just gonna say, I'm not sure, you know, I'm just, I put together some notes in advance. And so I don't know that I had had anything else. I mean, other than just one of the things that's pretty remarkable, as in all the catalogs or in all the different products, is it like on helmets, you could go from, like, say, a $15 helmet down to like one that costs $2 and 35 cents.

So the, you know, they, they end up having these high end helmets, and then, then there's kind of moderately priced ones, and then there's pretty inexpensive helmets. And so you just gotta, you know, it's like now, every helmet has to meet a certain base at least, you know, performance level, you know, based on Noxi. But, you know, back then, it was like, well, no, we, this is a helmet, it's good.

You know, but there's no measurement standards or anything. It's just like you're taking somebody's word for it. Yeah, that leads into one of the questions I was gonna ask you because the the ad for the helmets that you have on this tidbit, you know, it has three examples of helmets that they were promoting.

And all of them say leather lined. Now, what would be the alternative to leather-lined in that era? Would it be like, you know, cloth or something? Or, you know? Yeah, I think the internals were either leather or felt for the most part. And so you'll, you'll also see things.

You pretty much have to look at the less expensive ones to get a handle on the alternatives. For example, moleskin was kind of a high-end material for pants. It was not as popular in the 1930s, but it was still a high-end material.

Canvas was a low-end material. And then there might be different kinds of twills and maybe duck and whatever. I don't even know what some of those things really are, that they're one form of cotton, you know, material or another, but then by the 30s, you were getting into, you know, silk, and a lot of times it's like airplane cloth, which is actually a form of silk.

So silk, and then I'm blanking on the kind of the really shiny material that satin, you'd see that satin, yeah, it's so you'd see satin on the front of you know, certain, certain teams pants. So yeah, I mean, some of it was once they got into some of the, the not-so-like silk, one of the real values of it was lighter, much more water repellent, you know, so it didn't soak up sweat and, you know, water in a rainy situation. So the players, you know, felt lighter, but it also silk is much easier to dye.

And you can do a much broader range of colors, whereas the duck and canvas pretty much always had earth tones, you know, one or tone or another. So everybody wore kind of the same look in pants until New York versus wearing purple pants. So, you know, I mean, it's, you think about it, that was a big deal.

Awesome. Somebody, hey, they're wearable pants. Right? Yeah, I was just trying to go when you were saying, you know, that from the $15 helmet down to the $2 and 35 cent helmet, I'm picturing, you know, hey, you know, varsity players, you get the $15 helmet with a leather lined and freshmen, you're going to get the burlap lined helmets, you know, uncomfortable.

Yeah, well, I'm sure that sure that was short, obviously, the freshmen who were wearing the stuff, those latest and greatest 10 years ago. Right. And the thing on some of that is, I was looking at, so I'm still writing, you know, writing one of these, and it there's, there's kind of like a flap in the back between kind of the ear hole area in the back.

It's got some kind of flexible extension, some kind of elastic band there. So there was that part of the sizing. If you look at the catalog, sometimes not a lot is said about helmet sizing.

And so, you know, I always had a big old water bucket head. So I needed a big helmet. I've got a younger brothers, you know, got a pinhead.

And, you know, so, but presumably, we would have been issued the same helmet. So, yeah, I'm sure they had some kind of size variations, but, you know, they don't talk about much of the catalog size variations. You had to stuff some straw or a rag in the back or something to make it stay on your head.

Tim, that's a fascinating stuff. And you've, you've got a lot of these goldsmiths that you've been coming out as you said, you had an eight-part series on it, but you have a lot of other interesting stuff coming out, you know, seven days a week. Maybe you could share with folks how they could get in touch with you to learn about your tidbits and read them each and every day.

Yeah. So, you know, so my preferring would be that it just visits the site and you subscribe. And, you know, that way, basically if you're subscribed, you can, you'll get the, you'll get the tidbit by email every night.

Cause I assume it's seven o'clock Eastern. If you, if you're a Substack reader, you can also just get it and follow me on Substack. And then, you know, you'll, you'll be able to get them every night.

Some people don't want the email, but there you go. They like getting it on Substack. I also, at least for now, tweet it every night.

And then I also posted on the application threads. So me on one of those, it's always Football Archaeology. You know, if you enter that, you'll find me.

And then it's kind of like happy reading. All right. Well, Timothy Brown, thank you.
Once again, footballarchaeology.com is the place to go and we appreciate you, sir. And we will talk to you again next Tuesday.

Very good.

Thank you. Thanks, Tim.

Transcribed by TurboScribe

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Have you ever stopped to think about the iconic flip-down markers used to signal first downs in football? Today on the podcast, we delve into the fascinating history of this sideline staple with special guest historian Timothy Brown!

Timothy Brown of FootballArchaeaology.com a renowned expert on the evolution of sports equipment, joins us to explore.

Today's episode and discussion is based on Tim's original post titled:Col. Roy C. Baker And The Flip-Style Down Marker .

We also have this available in podcast form The Flip-Style Down Marker Innovation of Colonel Baker.

So please sit down and relax and enjoy the gridiron lore!

Flip-Style Down Marker with Timothy Brown

Hello my football friends, this is Darin Hayes of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pigpen, your portal of positive football history, and welcome to another Tuesday where we have our friend Timothy P Brown, a footballarchaeology.com, to tell us about another aspect of football history. Maybe He's not mainstream and we don't know much about but we're gonna learn something today Tim. Welcome back to the Pigpen.

Hey, it's very good to see you, and I think this Podcast will Have people flipping out.

Well, I'm definitely flipping out about it because you put your subject matter that you're gonna talk about today as something That's near and dear to my heart being a former official something that I used quite a bit You had an article back in May called Colonel Roy Baker and the flip style downed Marker Now this is something I'm very familiar with in my early days of officiating and love to hear the history of it.

Yeah well, you know, so Depending on when the listeners came of age in terms of their football fandom You know if they're some kind of young and they might only remember the louvered down markers where you know the guy the dial-a-downs Yeah, the dial-a-downs exactly and But before that There were a whole, you know, there are a number of different Variations on you know first there were chains and then they you know created down markers that or down boxes Which initially were just boxes, you know on a stick with a one two, three or four on the four sides of the box And so but none of those were entirely satisfactory because you know Depending on which direction you had the down Marker pointing then somebody was If they were in a different position in the stadium or on the field, they they saw a different number So there was always some confusion There and this isn't a lot of times in the days before there were really effective scoreboards that would tell you the down so There's this guy Roy C Baker Who was a 1932 South Dakota grad? Who's an ROTC there? He was a cheerleader. I didn't find any information about him playing Football in high school or college, but I suspect he played in high school.

He was from a small town in South Dakota. So I'm sure they needed every athlete that they could get, you know. Seems like a fairly athletic guy, so, you know, he graduates from South Dakota in 32, and he taught for a couple of years in, You know, South Dakota High School, but then he moves to Wyoming, and he at each of those places he's you know, these are small Small community high schools. He's the football coach and the basketball coach and, you know, pretty successful in both. You know, sometimes a little tough in the first year or two that he was coaches, But you know, he had some pretty good teams, especially in basketball, actually. But you know, for whatever reason, in the late 30s, he became dissatisfied with the way that the down boxes worked in Football, and Football had tried a lot of different solutions.

They were different. You know, now we're using chips, I guess, but they, you know, They tried different things like surveying kind of tools to line it up properly, And you know, some kind of crazy things to try to get, you know, accurate accuracy but though but His solution was much more focused on the fans and the players on the field than just the visibility of the down on the down Marker, so he's the guy who came up with the flip-style down And you know, he kind of prototyped it just using sheets of paper And if you think about it And I can wrote about it. I kind of went through the sequence in the written article, But it's like okay, so the on one side of the sheet has to be Matched with a two on the other side and then a two match with three and a three-match the four and then a four-match with a one in order for the numbers to correspond so both sides are displaying either one or two or three or four and So he figured that out it's like so obvious to anybody who looks at it, you know like And it's like why didn't anybody think of that and the numbers got to be upside down to the number on the other side Because you're flipping it over. Yeah.

Yeah, so, but I mean, he Used a couple of sheets of paper to figure it out, and boom. He made it so then he had, you know, he started having them produced in metal at a local, you know, sheet metal shop and Painting them up, and then he started selling them, you know, no locally, but he also sold one to the University, Nebraska So that was maybe his breakthrough where you know people start noticing this thing and And he files for a patent in 41 he gets the patent in like April of 42 Like two weeks later, you know, I said earlier he was an ROTC in college and he he was In the Army Reserves throughout that time, you know so World War two had just started so he gets called up So now he you know, it's gives up his teaching job joins, you know heads into the army and While he was in the army during World War two others started producing His flip style down markers and then selling them through the big sporting goods companies So he gets back to the States, you know, he was in Europe during the war. He gets back to states, and You know, They're using these flip-style down markers all over the place.

So he goes to some lawyers, and they basically say, well, You know, this isn't like a high dollar value product. You're probably not gonna get much out of suing these people because he had told that he told the companies, Hey, you're violating my patent, and they had said sue me, right? So, you know, he ended up just deciding not to pursue it for whatever reason but mostly on the lawyer's advice, So he never really got anything out of it. You know, he came up with this concept, which is brilliant in its simplicity, right? And really, the only recognition that he got was in 83 when the Redskins were in We're heading into the Super Bowl. He was profiled in the Washington Post with an article, you know, basically telling the story that he had, you know about what had happened to him.

So that article is helpful to me. But what, you know, obviously I had to go figure out his background, the high schools and all that kind of stuff, but the other thing just about this story is it's one of those where a lot of times some of my favorite stories are this came about because I mean I kind of you know, I've written a bunch of stuff in the past about these various downmarket attempts and but this one came about because An in-law relative of his Reached out to me and said hey, do you know about this guy this Roy C Baker? I was like, no, never heard of him, and But then once I do, you know, once I googled or used newspapers.com to look for That Washington Post article popped up, and then it was just like, you know, Katie bar the door, you know so anyways I just I love the stories where it's connected to somebody's relative a son a daughter grandchild whatever Who's like? You know, trying to figure out what the truth is behind their Ancestor story, or they're Giving the guys some recognition for a great invention to get credited for run paid for, But you know, really, I would guess from at least the early 50s, you know from then on Until the dial-a-down came around and that was like 87 or so I think is when that first came up the flip style down Marker was the downmarket I mean, you didn't see anything else on a football field So especially when they went to plastic, I know I know when I first started officiating in the 80s We had metal ones. There were some plastic ones out there But the plastic ones were great, especially like in our area when you started officiating you would be for varsity games You would hold the chains and do the downmarkers for the varsity game watching the more senior officials do it So you get those cold days in like October November and you're I mean you're holding it a metal pole So your hand gets close you have a glove on you're trying to do it one-handed But the the plastic ones are nice because you could just shake the the pat the pole a little bit and it would flip it You know, you could if you did just write it up and you'd have to use both hands to flip the thing around So we love the plastic ones Yeah, well, but you know, I mean I think anybody who watched Football and For whatever 30 40 year period You know the flipped style downmarker was the only thing out there Yeah, I mean, I I don't even remember seeing a dial down till probably the mid 90s in our area You know, everybody still had the plastics and especially lower level games.

They still use the plastics. I think yeah because those would have been more expensive. Yeah, And it's like, do you really need to replace something that works because it still works? You know, the flip-style would still work just fine, so now going back in before the flip style when they had the Traditional boxes, you know when I've we've all seen images of them, you know, I know there are some collectors on the vintage Collector community that we're in that some guys have them Walks and like you said you did they were down done they did they should where did they show the correct down? There was it to the players on the field point. It pointed to the field of a second down to two facing the field. That's right.

Okay, and so, you know, the funny thing originally when they first were doing the down rod, initially was just a rod, and the Headlinesman actually Carried it around with him on the field, and I, you know, So I've got pictures out there. I did another tidbit on this, but with a bunch of pictures of guys running up and down the field these rods, so originally, they didn't have any kind of box or anything. It was just, you know, that it allowed them to kind of stick it into the ground, and You know, you'd think they would have left it there. But anyway, they'd pick it up.

They'd pick it up and run with it, and then they started putting the boxes on the poles, but those were still, you know, like maybe up to waist height, you know, they just weren't very tall. Then finally they put them up a top a pole that like rose above The assistant linesman's head, you know, so eventually it got turned over to the assistant linesman and you know, they would You know, so I've got in this tidbit I've got a picture of of one of the the older stuff ones that is One that's below kind of below the waist version and then another one That's about as high as a flip down Marker would have been or even the current dial it down So, you know at least that was visible to fans, you know the the short ones, you know I mean, they were really only intended for the players and the officials because Nobody else could see it All right, I guess maybe the opposing sideline could see it in the opposing fans but you know, whoever was across the field could see it, but Nobody behind that official would be able to see it you know just a little Sidebar taken going into the world of officiating a lot of people don't know this but the officials The box is important because it's more more so for the spot of the ball and we make you know We all try to make sure because the headlinesman has his back to the chains in the box most of the time So it's usually the line judge, which is on the opposite sideline who's facing him. Let's tell them, Hey, it's you know, you're showing a two, and it's third down because officials every official has a rubber-like piece of elastic it goes on your wrist and it goes over your fingers, and People do it.

You know, some guys would do it. You know your fourth if you put the rubber band on your four fingers first down; you put it on your middle finger. Second down, I did it in did a group of fingers, you know I had the rubber band around one finger first down two fingers It was second down, and that and so you're really, and that's why we're whole the officials are holding up a number Signaling to the other officials. So we're all on the same page. Hey, it's second down. Yeah, I got second down, and then you look at the box and say, okay.

Yes, you're showing second down, So that's just how the officials do it. So I'm I don't know what they did prior to having those, you know when they had that rod, I'm sure they probably maybe did something unique like that, or I heard Some older guys that I did it started in the 50s when I started officiating they used to hold pebbles in their hands I don't know what they did with the pebble, you know they switched hands or something and did I I'm not coordinated enough to hold pebbles and You know blow a lanyard whistle that they used to have around their neck Yeah, I'd be kind of too much but that's how the officials do the downs most the times with a piece of elastic on their fingers Yeah, well, you know they like in the old catalogs. There's, You know, for a long time, they sold little, you know, hand clicker things That would have down in the distance, you know, much like an umpire would use to keep track of balls and strikes But you know, for a long time, you know again before Official signals became, you know fairly standardized You know a lot of times whoever was posting stuff on the scoreboard They were kind of guessing, you know, whether there had been a first down or not because sometimes it wasn't clear You know, the officials didn't always signal things. So the way that we just assume they're going to today So there, you know, there are games where they had the wrong score on the scoreboard, you know, for a long time, and so it was, You know, Thankfully as much as I dislike sometimes hearing the referee talk during the games it's Communications is much better today than it has been in the past Yeah, and the majority of them are pretty good at talking.

Yeah, conforming things. There are some guys that say some things. You're like one, so why would you even say that? Who knows? I just want to watch the game and not have to hear the explanation. It's not really a criticism of the officials themselves, and some of them actually have a really good sense of humor, right? Tim, you know, that is a great piece. You know, to talk about, you know, some officiating equipment, something that all of us look at when we go to a game, and you know, sometimes on television, we see it come into our view. You can see the downs so it's just kind of cool to to hear the history of that and Give some some love to the guy that invented the one probably lasted the longest of all the Down markers that flip style which you know I think everybody's familiar that's watched Football at least the last 20 years or so So, you know great piece of history there and you have some little unique pieces like this a lot on your website maybe you can share with the Folks how they can tune into some of these pieces that you have sure You know, it's just easiest thing is go to footballarchaeology.com subscribe and You know, you'll get an email every time that I yes issue a new You know have a new post you'll get an email into your box with that content alternatively follow me on Twitter on Substack or on threads You can be one of about six or seven people who follows me on threads if you want to And or you know just go on out and hit the site whenever you want, you know, whatever you want to I'll also just take a moment here to some put in a plug I've got a new book coming out called a history of the Football. So, as far as I know, it is the first book to look at the history of American Football and Canadian Football. I covered their ball as well. So, you know, it takes us back to the rugby days and then all the way up until the present. How did it change shape, size, colors, and stripes? Materials etc.

So it's just kind of a fun little read. Yeah, and I'm coming soon to an Amazon site near you. Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you if you had a date set for release, but I still do that. I do not know, but we'll get some information from you when it officially comes out. We'll make sure we share that with everybody, too. But I'm looking forward to that. Do you have any place where people can pre-order anything? I think there's some technique.

I'm running into a technical issue right now. It's just related to the cover. You know, I think in order to allow pre-order, you have to have the cover ready, okay, and so All right, so the answer is no problem, we'll just keep watching, and we'll keep posting when we know things on pigskin dispatch and keep watching Tim's Social media and everything and in footballarchaeology.com, and we'll figure out what's coming real soon So real exciting book so can't wait to get my hands on it.

So Tim, we really appreciate you coming on here and sharing, you know, aspects of this, You know, flip down and the dial it down in the box and its history, and I Love to talk to you about another aspect of football history next week.

Yeah, I will be here.

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In the rich tapestry of American football, where strategy and athleticism intertwine, there are moments when innovation pushes the boundaries of the game. One such instance is the gadget play known as the "Helmet Toss," a daring maneuver that once captivated audiences with its audacious flair. Introduced in the early days of the college game, the play involved a player taking off their helmet. While it showcased the creativity and risk-taking spirit that drives the sport, the play's inherent dangers and unpredictability led to its eventual ban by league officials. Football Archaeology.com's Timothy Brown joins us to discuss a brief yet memorable role in football history, illustrating how the pursuit of innovation can both challenge and reshape the very rules of the game.

If you love the football talk on the history and evolution, then you check out the original article Tim wrote Helmet-Tossing Trickeration.

Also check out the podcast version of our chat at They Tried This Football Gadget Play With the Helmet! Pigskin Dispatch Podcast.

-Transcribed Toss leather Helmet Trickeration with Tim Brown

Hello, my football friends; this is Darin Hayes at PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another edition where we get to visit Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com on a Tuesday and talk about some gridiron from yesteryear and some great aspects of the game. And Tim's got some great stories today in our edition.

Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Good to see you.

And what could I use as a dad joke? I think I'm out of luck. I don't think I have anything. Yeah, I think you're tricked out.

Yeah, that's... I figured that's what you were setting yourself up for. But of course, Tim... Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Well, I was just going to say that I was being the, you know, the straight man in this little comedy routine. And usually, those don't work out so well when you're the straight man, and I'm telling the jokes. Your delivery is much better than mine.

Of course, we're trying to segue into kind of very poorly, I might add, into Tim's great article that he wrote back in July 5th called The Helmet Tossing Trickeration, which, you know, sounds like a mouthful here. And I'm sure we'll have a few more laughs and learn a lot about some football here with this story. Yeah, so I will take a moment; hopefully, in the very near future, my next book, A History of the Football, will be released and available for sale by Football History Enjoying Public.

Anyways, one of the things that I cover in that book is, you know, when and why stripes arrived on the ball. And so stripes basically came, you know, appeared on footballs for two reasons. One is that they were added to help people see the ball when they played night games or when they practiced at dusk.

You know, a lot of times you just would paint a ball white or yellow, but those were slick and slippery. And so they, you know, adding a stripe, you know, they thought would allow, would cause less problems with, you know, the slickness of the ball. So part of it, white stripe or a black stripe on a white ball was just to help people see at night.

But the other thing that, the other reason was to eliminate kind of a camouflage effect. And so, you know, the stripes got added in the 20s, mostly in the 30s. But, you know, back then teams were just starting to wear white jerseys on a fairly regular basis.

Stanford was one of those teams. But so if you used a white ball at night, it was like, okay, well, the opponent was like, well, we can't see the ball because you got white jerseys. And then back, and the same thing kind of happened with the brown ball.

Teams, not many teams wore brown or tan jerseys, but almost everybody was wearing pants that were earth tones. They were khaki. So they were, you know, they were the khaki color or they were brown, or they were, you know, some kind of a greenish brownish blob.

And so it would sometimes be hard to see the ball against that background. And so, and they were also, a lot of teams were wearing, you know, that there were friction strips, but before the friction strips, they'd wear those like pieces of leather that were kind of oval looking on their jerseys. And so, so anyways, for those reasons, it was sometimes hard, you know, you'd lose sight of the ball because of the uniform that the, that the opponent was wearing.

So, so that was a problem. And in that time, there was also some trickeration that was going on. This is in the 20s and 30s, but there was another, there was an older trickeration that had occurred back in, in 1909, which is really the focus of this tidbit.

It's just taken me a little while to get there. So back in 1909, Virginia Tech and North Carolina were playing a game and Virginia Tech had three brothers named, well, their last name was Hodgson. And one of the guys was E.R. Hodgson, and he was the right guard.

Vivian Hodgson ends up, you know, scoring the first TD in the game and E.R., the guard, moves back to be the kicker. This is not him, but you know, figured I'd put a kicker out here. And so, you know, he converts the, converts the kick.

So Virginia Tech's, you know, leading. Five minutes later, Virginia Tech is on the 35 and E.R. Hodgson sets up again to kick, this time a field goal. And rather than, you know, as a snap is made, Hodgson, the kicker, pulls off his brown leather helmet, which is basically the same color as the football.

And he tosses the helmet over the right side of the line so that the, so that the NC State players would think that he was throwing a football. And instead, well, he was throwing a helmet, obviously, but the holder got the ball and he ran around the left side of the NC State line and goes for a 35-yard touchdown. So it's just, you know, this is one of these things where the helmets look enough like a football in terms of just the tanning of the leather that you could throw your helmet and people would think it was a football.

And then in the second half, he sets up again and to place kick another field goal and the ball gets snapped. Instead of going to the, to the holder, the ball gets snapped to the E.R. Hodgson, the kicker. And it's, it's hard to, you know, the, the way they describe it, it's not entirely clear whether, you know, but he handed it off to the quarterback who maybe was positioned out at a wing position.

And it was either like in a draw or a Statue of Liberty sort of play, but the quarterback went for a 75-yard run, you know. So here's poor NC State, you know, they, they thought they were playing a pretty big, pretty good game until they saw ball flying over the, the left side of the defense line, turns out to be a helmet, not a ball. And then they get the old Statue of Liberty play, which was then a new play, pulled on them.

So, you know, two long touchdown runs and unfortunately for them anyways, Virginia Tech won. But so that, that one of the other side lights to this is that these, you know, these trick plays, throwing the helmet around, you know, people continue doing that a bit. And in like the late twenties, there was some guy, I've never figured out who he is, some guy, but he apparently played somewhere in the South.

And he, he would take, he was a running back, he'd take his helmet off and toss it to the ground, you know, sometime close to being tackled, because then some of the defenders would think it was a loose ball, go for the, go for the helmet instead of the, instead of trying to tackle him. And so then that was when they implemented a rule that said every team has to paint their helmets with some kind of striping, you know, cross stripes, or like, you know, kind of like the Michigan Wolverine, you know, type of helmet. You had to have some contrasting colors painted on the top of your helmet.

So it didn't look like a football. So anyways, that's all I know. That's it.

Yeah. That's quite a mouthful there of what you just said. I mean, some great, great stories.

First of all, you almost got to think of back how almost every episode of the A team ended back in the eighties where Hannibal would say, I love it when a plan comes together. It sounds like those, those trickeration plays were to their peak performance there on both of them getting a big touchdown plays, helping them win the game. But the other thing is you almost got to think, you know, it's hard for our modern sensibilities to say, okay, a player's taken off their helmet in the middle of a play.

You know, even in between plays when they're on the field, you know, nowadays they, you know, celebration, they get 15 yard penalties. So obviously that was not the rule back in that era. Well, you didn't even have to have a helmet, you know, at that, at that point.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, people by, well, actually in like oh nine, probably most players didn't wear one. Maybe half did, it probably depended on the team, but you know, certainly in the twenties and thirties, you know, then pretty much everybody was wearing them, but um, like Tommy McDonald, dude, I think he was the last one to play without a helmet. I'm pretty sure that was him.

Maybe, maybe I'm getting him mixed up with some, no, he was the last one to play without a face mask. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

I think you alluded to it a little bit, and I think this is what you were talking about. If you go back, you know, back more towards the turn of the century and where the players, the standard equipment was, they were wearing like the vests, like the leather vests, you know, and you know, then the moleskin pants were that tannish color, like you're talking about in football. So I mean that era, and I think all teams were wearing, I don't think they had different color vests.

It was all the same color that had to be really challenging for a defense to be able to follow the ball and run the ball every play too. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, you basically had to rely on, you know, everybody wore long-sleeve sweaters or jerseys, and then they'd have a stripe, or they'd have socks of the same color.

So that was a primary way to tell. And it's like, you know, eventually college players kind of went to the no hose or no stocking look, you know, they just have the, but like the white sock, right. And, but back then everybody was still wearing shin guards.

And so, you know, the some, you know, early on, they'd wear them over their socks, and then they started wearing them under their socks. But I think the socks probably helped keep them on. And it was just a better look instead of having those shin guards.

But I was coming from the aspect of just trying to follow the ball when you have your midsection and your lower, you know, portions of your body are consumed the same color as the football. And, you know, there's 22 guys on the field like that. It's had to be extremely hard as a defender to follow where that ball is.

Yeah. And, you know, half the time, they were running up the gut. So it's like, you know, how they figured out who had the ball sometimes, you know, who knows.

And they weren't the nice clean fields that we see today either. I'm sure most of them were just mud pits. Yeah.

Especially the end of the season. Yeah. No doubt about it.

Yeah. Well, some interesting stuff and some things that we really have to appreciate that our football forefathers had to go through and experience both in the elements and by rules and some of the craziness of the absence of color in the uniforms and stripes on the ball that we take for granted. Of course, the NFL doesn't have the stripes, but almost every other level has some form of a stripe on there.

Now, I guess that's the other thing I'm sitting here trying to envision when you're putting stripes on balls back in the early twenties. It's not like they had, you know, masking tape and spray paint that they could put it on. So I'm assuming somebody's got to almost like detail this, you know, with a stripe with a brush and very little template.

Somebody with a steady hand and some kind of tape or something. But, you know, I mean, when the manufacturers got involved too, it was like, again, this is another thing I talk about in the book, but it's like, where do you put the stripes? Right. How many stripes? Do you have one stripe? Do you have two stripes? Do you have three stripes? Do they go just one way or do they go the long way? I mean, you know, so that there are these things that we take for granted that, well, of course, the white stripe goes there.

Well, no, that's an arbitrary place. I mean, there's probably reason why they ended up where they ended up, but, you know, I mean, they were just trying stuff, you know? So it's like, Billy, go paint white stripes on the ball. Okay, boss.

And, you know, Billy went and did it. Nobody told him how far it was supposed to be and how wide the stripes had to be or anything like that. Yeah, I think if I had to do it, it would probably look like a melted lightning bolt going around there.

I'm sure it wouldn't be going around. That'd be a tough thing to do on an odd shaped ball like that. I've got some images of the striping on the field as well that sometimes was not quite as straight as one might like.

I've experienced that in modern times when on the grass fields it's kind of hard to do measurements, that's for sure, when you have some of those crazy crooked lines in there. But, yeah, it's probably a better job than I would do, so I can't complain too much. Yeah, so, Tim, just another great way to look back at an aspect of football that it's hard for us to appreciate, but it happened and, you know, some of the things that people had to overcome playing the game that they love, just like we'd love it today, and we'd love just to hear about this history.

But you have some multi-times a week, you have some of these things coming up and writing articles on it, and maybe you could tell the listeners how they can enjoy some of these. Sure, just go to footballarchaeology.com and subscribe. All you have to do is submit an email address, and you'll start getting them every week or every time I post one.

Some of the stuff that I do, I, you know, only paid subscribers, you know, get access to it, but a lot of it is available for free. So, that's the best way. You can also follow me on Twitter, on threads, or on the Substack app.

All right, and keep us posted when that book comes out, so we can get the word out and get that in people's hands and enjoy the history of football and some of the aspects you learned about today, and we're going, I'm sure, in better detail in the book. So, Tim, we'd love to have you again next week, and we thank you for joining us today. Very good.

Thanks, Darin

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Have you ever wondered how and why a football looks the way it does? What about the grainy texture, the color or the stripes? Our friend Author Timothy Brown has the answers.

Discover the secrets behind the ball's shape, size, and materials, and learn how technological advancements have transformed the game. Brown offers a unique perspective on the football's cultural significance and its impact on society throughout history.

Join us as Tim discusses his latest groundbreaking work, The History of the Football. In this captivating conversation.

We also have a podcast audio version of the discussion found at:
The History of the Football with Timothy Brown or you can find it on your favorite podcast provider in the Pigskin Dispatch Podcast.

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Timothy Brown of Football Archaeology found some images of two-tone colored football jersey numbers and dug up some history on these unique features from the past.

Tim takes us back to Cal Tech and their innovation of split and two-tone colored jersey numbers with his original Tidbit titled: Two-Tone and Split Jersey Numbers.

-Transcribed Two-Tone CalTech Jerseys with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And welcome to Tuesday, FootballArcheology.com day. Timothy P. Brown, the founder and head writer of that site. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Good to see you again on a beautiful summer evening. Looking forward to talking a little bit of old football. Yeah, we are getting to the point where football is.

You know, there's pads being clacked around the country and balls being thrown. And we're going to be seeing a lot of that real soon. Well, of course, we can still watch our friends north of the border who have been playing, but it is getting exciting.

Yeah. I mean, well, I was going to say before you added the CFL, our CFL friends, I've been I don't I haven't been really watching when it's on CFL Plus, but when it's on the CBS thing, you know, I take those and watch those games. So it's fun.

It was some great, great football. It definitely is a lot of offense. They really gear it towards scoring some points.

So that's what makes it attractive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So we're going to talk tonight about one of your tidbits that you had back in June, you know, just a little over a month ago and talking about some jerseys, which is a favorite topic. I love talking about those and something in particular unique about the numbers, and I'll let you take it from there. Yeah.

So this is. Sometimes, I can't even recreate how I found some of these stories, but I think what happened was I I was looking, somehow I'd come across the story about Caltech. So California technology.

And right there, you know, it's going to be something wacky when that school name and football come together. There's something going to be. Yeah.

Well, they don't play football anymore, at least at the varsity level. But they did for a long time. You know, they had success in the California small college circuit, you know, the Occidentals and the Whittiers and, you know, those kinds of schools.

And. But, you know, they sit in the school in Pasadena. And so, you know, one of the cool things about them is that there's a picture of one of their home games in the Rose Bowl, in 1933 or something.

But, you know, they played their games in Tournament Park before the Rose Bowl stadium was built and then in the Rose Bowl because they're literally right next door. And so anyways, you know, they did attract a couple of thousand fans to see a game under the lights and in the Rose Bowl. So, you know, kind of fun stuff.

I'm sure it had to be a big treat for any of the opposing teams to get a chance to play there. But so somehow, I came across them. I actually wrote two stories in a row about Caltech because the previous tidbit was about the face shields that they wore in the 1940s and 41st centuries.

And but they ended up, you know, they were basically shields to allow guys who wore glasses to play football. And this is before face masks, you know, were common. And so somehow, in searching through their yearbooks, I came across a couple of pictures where it's like, what is going on with those jerseys? And so what they had was, you know, for want of a better term, two two-toned numerals on the jerseys.

So they they only had numbers on the backs. They didn't have them on the front. But that they had, you know, a wide, a dark, wide stripe that ran through the sleeves and then the body and maybe, you know, just above the belly button, but not all the way up at the chest.

And so it's probably a six-inch wide, seven-inch wide stripe. And because that thing was there when they put the numbers on, you know, they couldn't have like a dark number. Because it would have overlapped with the dark stripe.

And then, on the rest of the jersey, where it's white, they couldn't have a white number. So what they did was they had a two-tone number. So on the dark where, you know, where it went over the dark stripe, it was a white number.

But then, above the stripe, it was dark. Yeah. So let me let me cut in here real quick here, folks.

If you want to, Tim will explain this. You can see a great example of it. We have the link in the show notes to take you right to Tim's football archaeology dot com site.

He's got some great images of what he's talking about there. So you can appreciate that. So I'm sorry.

Go ahead, Tim. Yeah. So, yeah, I should I should have mentioned that myself.

But so the thing is, you know, I mean, like, I literally track every college yearbook that I look at, you know, just to make sure I have covered this turf before or not. And, you know, I probably need to go through a bunch of them just because I'll see new things. But I've looked at, like, now, I'm just under thirty-four hundred old college yearbooks that I've paged through to look at the, you know, the football section.

And I've never come across these two-toned numbers before, or at least I haven't noticed them. Anyway, I think they're unique. You know, I've seen like Penn used to have, or Penn probably still does.

And Harvard, both schools, I've seen like the P or the H logo where. There'd be a diagonal, you know, split, you know, from lower to lower to upper. And so one would be maroon, and the other would be white, and one would be blue and the other white.

So, you know, so if you can imagine that, if you've seen that logo, then that's basically what it looked like, except as a horizontal split, you know, upper and lower of the dark and the white. But anyway, it's just one of those weird things that thankfully never caught on. And as much as, you know, nowadays it used to be, you could only have Arabic letters, and then there were certain constraints; you could only use these typefaces.

Nowadays, there's so much. You know, basically unreadable. And I think I think they still there's just a greater number of fonts.

I think they can use what they've got. So we're going to have, you know, a certain size block number to be legal. I think even NCAA, because otherwise somebody like Oregon would be pushing the limits probably beyond what Caltech did in this case.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to.

Yeah, it's just, you know, I've seen too many like white on gray uniforms, you know, white numbers on gray uniforms. The fonts are all the things that they look like. They're from NASCAR.

They're just big, ugly. And so anyway. And don't get me started on colored fields because that's another story.

Yeah. Yeah, I know there's one blue one in particular. I don't even know if I can watch the games.

It drives me crazy. But great football there, but not the great field. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, this is just one of those things that is kind of bizarre.

I mean, I've never seen it. You know, it obviously didn't take off, and it didn't become popular, but, you know, maybe somebody else had one. If they do, reach out and let us know. Well, that's why we count on you for the bizarre football items.

And you definitely deliver those. And this is one of them. So we love it.

I mean, I think it's a great it's great conversational pieces. And you learn a lot about what people were trying to experiment with and innovate or try to gain an advantage over the other team or whatever. Personal style choice.

I don't know what you'd call this, but it's cool stuff. It's really interesting. So we appreciate that.

I mean, I've used it a couple of times, but it's the, you know, innovation versus oddity. You know, it's if people adopt it and, you know, it takes off, then, oh, you were innovative. But if you did something that everybody thinks, especially looking back, you know, 50, 60 years later, you know, what in the heck were they thinking? But why do those people have stripes down the middle of their helmets? What are they crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those things. Yeah. I know.

Wow. You know, if you could share with us, you know, the listeners so we can enjoy your tidbits because you have items like this, you know, seven days a week and you have you have some beauties that are come on there like this and you'll get a good chuckle out of her. Just be entertained for, you know, a few minutes and talk about the people at the work around a water cooler next day or whatever.

But he's well; you're having a few cold ones. It's a great way to do it and get some football history every single day. So, Tim, could you share how the folks could join you in that?

They appreciate that. Sure. You know, the best way to do it is just to go to football archaeology dot com and subscribe.

You can do that for free. And then, you know, basically, you'll get an email from me every night at seven o'clock Eastern. I'm also on the substack platform on on Twitter and on threads.

So and all under the same name, football archaeology. Well, Tim Brown, thank you very much once again for talking to us about some great football history and your football archaeology dot com tidbits. And we will talk to you again next Tuesday.

Very good. Thank you very much. Have a good one.

Love the football jersey designs and evolution wait till you check out the History of American Football Jersey.

-Football Jersey Frequently Asked Questions

-What are American football jerseys made of? Modern jerseys are a mix of synthetic fibers such as polyester or a blend of different materials such asspandex, for more check out our in-depth study ofThe Make up and Materials of Football Jerseys.

-What are some of the unique football jerseys in history? Gridiron jerseys with logos on the front were some what of fad once upon a time. Check this story titled Football Jerseys with Emblems.

-Whose college football jersey was the first to be retired? Red Grange's Number 77 Ilinois Illini jersey was the first college uni to be shelved in 1925. There were a couple more about the same time and we chatted with a college football expert historian help divulge College Football and its First Retired Jerseys.

-When did football jerseys start having numbers on them? Though there was documented talk of it since 1894, players did not all wear digits in a game until the 1905 Iowa State at Drake game, check this out more on this storyThe Origins Of Football Player Numbers.

-Who are some of the most famous NFL players at each jersey number? From Red Grange's jersey number 77 to Tom Brady's iconic number 12, a slew of NFL players made their digits proud. Want to know more? You are in the right place as we covered all 100 jersey numbers and the best to wear each:About Football By Numbers.

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Football Archaeology takes a snap shot look at the first time plastic helmets were introduced to live football games, and a bit on their creator, John Riddell.

The year 1940 marked a significant milestone in the evolution of American football, particularly with the Northwestern Wildcats facing off against the Syracuse Orangemen in a historic game that would forever change the sport. What set this matchup apart wasn't just the clash between two formidable teams, but the introduction of a revolutionary innovation: plastic helmets. This game, held on October 5th, became the first-ever instance in college football where both competing teams donned these newly developed protective headgear.

Prior to the adoption of plastic helmets, football players relied on leather headgear that offered limited protection against the physical rigors of the game. The innovation of plastic helmets, however, represented a leap forward in player safety and comfort. Spearheaded by Riddell, the company responsible for this groundbreaking advancement, the plastic helmets featured a hard outer shell that provided better impact absorption and reduced the risk of head injuries.

In the context of the 1940 Northwestern at Syracuse game, the debut of plastic helmets symbolized more than just a technological upgrade. It underscored a growing awareness within the football community about the importance of player safety—a theme that continues to resonate in today's game. The decision by both teams to embrace this new equipment reflected a proactive approach to protecting their athletes, setting a precedent that would eventually become standard across all levels of football.

Moreover, the game itself was a testament to the competitive spirit and evolving strategies within college football. Northwestern, under the guidance of head coach Pappy Waldorf, brought a disciplined and dynamic offense to the field, while Syracuse, led by head coach Ossie Solem, countered with their own aggressive defensive tactics. The combination of innovative helmets and strategic gameplay made the 1940 matchup not only a pivotal moment in football history but also a captivating spectacle for fans and players alike.

Beyond its immediate impact, the introduction of plastic helmets in the 1940 Northwestern-Syracuse game foreshadowed the ongoing evolution of football equipment and safety standards. It highlighted the sport's capacity for adaptation and improvement, emphasizing the continuous efforts to enhance player welfare while preserving the essence of competitive athletics.

In conclusion, the 1940 Northwestern at Syracuse football game stands as a landmark event where innovation met tradition, ushering in a new era of safety and performance in American football. By embracing plastic helmets for the first time, both teams not only safeguarded their players but also paved the way for future advancements that would shape the game we know and love today.

Love the helmet designs and evolution wait till you check out the College Football helmet history of schools.

-Frequently Asked Questions

-Who was the first player to wear a football helmet? We have your answer in our in-depth study ofthe first to wear a helmet.

-What is the history of each college team and their helmet designs? Check out many of them with our series College Football helmet history of schools.

-How come some teams have player numbers on their helmets? We asked this question too and had a college football expert historian help divulge helmet numbers history.

-Why do some teams like Michigan and Delaware look so odd and similar? It's really uncanny isn't it that the Wolverines and Blue Hens look the same, check this out for a reason when helmets had wings.

-What do stickers on college football helmets mean? Some of them look really crazy but there is some goos reason for the extra adornments and we have the scoop Why all the stickers on some football helmets?.

When did football helmets change from leather to plastic? Just after World War II saw the most abrupt changes, we have more in this in our chat with an expert:When helmets changed from leather to plastic.

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Timothy P. Brown of Football Archaeology visited us recently to tell the story of one of his recent Tidbits about paying players at the collegiate level a century before the NIL.

In the video, Tim discusses how college football players have been getting paid under the table for many years. He mentions that in 1929, the Carnegie Foundation issued a report criticizing the underground payment system, but it was largely ignored due to the Great Depression.

This video is a fascinating look at the history of paying college football players. It is clear that this is a complex issue with a long history and that there are many different opinions on the matter.

Transcribed conversation with Timothy Brown on Paid College Players over a century ago

Hello, my football friends! Welcome again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. It is Tuesday, and we are happy to say that Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com has joined us again to talk about another of his great tidbits. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Darin, thank you. It was good to see you again, hear your voice, and have the opportunity to chat a little bit. Yeah, this is, you know, the football seasons are winding down in all leagues here.

This is this coming weekend. We have the Super Bowl coming up. You know, we're actually recording a couple of weeks ahead of time, but we know who the participants are. And, you know, it's not so good for your neck of the woods. You know, the Lions had a great season and just didn't work out their way at the end of the game of the NFC Championship.

Unfortunately, I grew up a Packers fan, and they bit us the week before, and then the Lions. So I don't know that I really care anymore about either team that's in there. Sometimes, that's what makes it fun.

If you have no vested interest in it, you just sit back and hope for good football and enjoy the athletes, some of the great things they do, and what happens. And, you know, you're not worried one way or the other if something bad happens. Yeah.

Yeah. My daughter, who grew up in Detroit
 but lives in San Francisco, kind of couldn't lose in that game. So, hopefully, she's got a continued rooting interest, but not for me.

Yeah. What are you going to do? Well, paying players—you know, these players in the NFL are getting paid quite a bit, and it sort of segues into what we're going to be talking about now. We know that college players are getting paid with the NIL contracts and everything, but you have a story in one of your tidbits from a little while back where you talk about some players getting paid in college almost a hundred years ago.

And maybe you'd like to discuss that with us today. Yeah. Well, you know, I think it, the idea of paying somebody to participate in sports, particularly at the college level, I mean, that's as old as people, you know, from the day that people said, hey, it's important for my college to be your college.

From that moment, they started finding ways to ensure that good athletes attended this school or that school. You know, and for a long time, it was an informal process. You know, there used to be a banker in town who would send, you know, pay for a kid to college.

And geez, if he happened to be a good athlete and went to Old State U, that was great. But, you know, they, you know, they're also like way back in the day, you know, top student-athletes often were like, they'd be like agents for cigar manufacturers or chewing gum manufacturer, you know, any, anything that was sold on campus. And then if they could influence people's buying behavior, you know, they got paid money, you know, for that kind of thing.

And there's a lot of that kind of stuff going on. And then, obviously, there were the easier no-show jobs that guys had. But so, I mean, there's always been kind of the under-the-table thing.

And then, in 1929, there was a big report. The Carnegie Foundation, you know, reported on college football, basically criticizing all of this underground payment, you know, system and, you know, having guys there who maybe weren't the greatest students, et cetera. And so the one, the funny thing about that, I mean, it was one of those things that kind of just ignored.

I mean, the Great Depression started shortly after they issued the report. So people kind of had, you know, bigger problems too, you know, to worry about. But there were, you know, a handful of people, professors, you know, folks directly involved in athletics who were kind of saying, we should pay these guys, you know, they should get a percentage of the gate or, you know, they should get, there was a guy at Missouri who said, you know, the players should get $2 per hour for practice.

Now, that doesn't sound like much, but it'd be the same as $36 an hour today, you know, beer money, you know, for a college athlete. And then there were a couple of student newspapers, Minnesota and UCLA, that came out saying, hey, you know, the football players in particular, they subsidize all other sports, which was true at most bigger schools at the time. And I've, you know, I've got documentation on that that I'll probably put out in another tidbit.

But so anyways, you know, and then others were just arguing like, you know, football in particular, and then later on basketball and baseball, they had, they were commercialized, you know, they were professionalized in every way other than paying the players. The coaches got big-time money, and people had to pay money to attend the games. And, you know, then they started selling video rights, and then they started selling TV rights.

So, you know, there were these pots and pots of money. So, if you look at a big-time college athletic program, that is a pro program. You know, it's run by professionals.

In some ways, it's run for professionals, right? And the only thing that wasn't professional about it was that the athletes didn't get paid. They got a scholarship, you know, at bigger schools, and then eventually they'd get some spending money and, you know, dah, dah, dah. But nothing like what their actual market, you know, power was.

And so now that this NIL is out there, you know, all of a sudden, guys are, you know, starting to make some pretty good money. Some guys are better off staying in college an extra year than signing some, you know, low-level rookie contracts. Now, then their pro contract, that clock starts, you know, doesn't start clicking or, you know, ticking for another year.

But, you know, somebody tells me I can make whatever, a million bucks through NIL, you know, versus, you know, whatever, you know, 800,000 or whatever the current rookie contract is worth, you know, you got to think about. So, it's just really, um, it's been a long time coming, right? And like myself, I don't necessarily like some of the things that are going to, the impact it will have on the game. But that's just selfishness, you know, whereas the kids deserve the money, you know, just like artists or, you know, musicians, or a kid who invents, you know, writes a piece of software or whatever, you know, TikTok sort of influencer, whatever, you know.

Anyway, it's one of those funny things. It's that conflict that has always existed, but now it's more or less out in the open.

So I think that's good. Yeah. Cause, uh, I mean, if it wasn't for the student-athletes, people wouldn't be paying to go watch an empty football field or basketball court or whatever event they're going to.

So yeah, those kids deserve it, and they work hard. And, uh, you know, I was kind of surprised though. You know, I knew when the NIL was coming out that, uh, you know, players were going to be getting paid, but I had no idea there was going to be as lucrative for, for some of these folks as it is in the, uh, I was astounded the LSU gymnast.

Uh, and I forget what her name is. She's on a couple of commercials now and is a social influencer. She's making millions, uh, just by her likeness and image.

So it's amazing. Yeah. And, you know, some people will get that money based on, frankly, what they look like, right?

Uh, others, you know, their personality, just their, you know, obviously she had to be smart enough to, I mean, she's a very attractive young lady. Still, you know, she figured out the game and, uh, was doing some, you know, you know, she, she's, you know, I mean, I've never watched herself, but I assume she's got to have a presence and delivery, whatever it is. Right. Um, she was so smart enough to take advantage of that and the situation she was in.

So yeah, more power to her. Yeah. He has a couple of extra bucks left over after buying the school books each semester.

That's for sure. Yeah. She didn't even have to sell her school books in the old days.

Great. Well, that's, I mean, that's interesting that it's been around that long that, uh, you know, the debate's been long for a hundred years now. So that's, uh, it's incredible.

That's why it's such a great read. And maybe you could share with the listeners how they, too, could partake in your tidbits. Yeah.

You can subscribe on Substack or visit footballarchaeology.com whenever you want. You can also follow me on Twitter, so whatever fits your fancy.

Well, Tim, we really appreciate you coming here and sharing another one of these great stories of football and aspects of football of, of old that, uh, you know, really have big meaning in today's college football world. And, uh, we appreciate you, and, uh, folks, make sure you check out FootballArchaeology.com. We have the links in the show notes to this tidbit, and it takes you into Tim's realm of FootballArchaeology.com, which you talked about. And Tim, we would love to talk to you again next week about another aspect of football.

Very good. Look forward to chatting again.