Football

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The Pigskin Daily History Dispatch offers an enlightening episode featuring Darin Hayes and Timothy P. Brown, who delve into the lesser-known yet fascinating aspects of football history through Timothy's 'Factoid Feast' series. This segment highlights the joy of uncovering small but significant stories that enrich the broader narrative of the sport. Timothy discusses his passion for collecting football postcards, particularly one remarkable postcard from a World War II Army Air Force field, which serves as a window into the past when servicemen not only trained for combat but also formed football teams to foster spirit and camaraderie.

Of course, this discussion all stems from Tim's original article titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-factoid-feast-vii" target="bbcode">Factoid Feast VII .

The audio-only podcast of the discussion can be found at: Single Wing Image Has Something Missing.

The episode takes a closer look at the visual elements of the postcard, including its combination of imagery and play diagrams that offer a humorous glimpse into the creative methods used for football promotion during the era. Timothy points out the amusing misrepresentation of player positions in the play diagram, which prompts a lively discussion about the evolution of football tactics and the sometimes humorous interpretations of the game by those not fully versed in its complexities. The hosts share laughs over their personal experiences with football gear, especially the resourcefulness shown by players who relied on makeshift solutions, such as duct tape, to secure their equipment.

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The ability to change direction on a dime, explode past defenders, and leave them grasping at air – these are the hallmarks of a truly agile football player. But how did these skills develop throughout the game's history? And how can modern players hone their footwork for peak performance?

No time for a video? Check out the Agility Drill Podcast version

Join us as we delve into the world of football agility drills with renowned football historian Timothy Brown. Mr. Brown's deep knowledge of the game's past sheds light on how training methods have evolved, offering valuable insights for players and coaches alike. In this exclusive interview, he'll be sharing:

-Historical Drills: Explore the agility drills used by legendary players of the past, and see how they've shaped modern training techniques.

-Drill Evolution: Learn how agility drills have adapted to the ever-changing demands of the modern game.

So, lace up your cleats and prepare to elevate your game. With Mr. Brown's expert guidance, you'll be well on your way to developing the lightning-fast footwork that separates the good from the great on the gridiron.

-Timothy Brown Box Aglity Drills

I've got an image that shows one of the early agility drills. And what this is, this shows, it was a 1921 Kansas State team. And, you know, they're, they're working out and they're trying to become more agile.

So nowadays, there's, you know, we have all these agility drills, and people run through ropes, or they, you know, but for a long time, people ran through tires, or in this case, they ran through wooden boxes. And, you know, it's same kind of thing as we asked players to do today, you're running through an obstacle course, sometimes they have these boxes, you know, pushed off to the right and left. And they got to do, you know, run with high knees, and they're double stepping or whatever, you know, whatever the coach told them that they needed to do.

So it was a way, not so much. Well, certainly it helped from a conditioning standpoint, but a lot of it was just trying to build agility. And, and, you know, kind of looseness of the step and the ability to cut and change direction.

But at the time, the best that they could come up with was either old car tires, or wooden boxes like this. And you know, you have to look at this and say, how many guys tripped on these things, and scuffed up their shins or broke a leg or whatever. And so, you know, it turned out that there was a guy named Joe, I believe it's pronounced Paupa.

He had coached the Chicago's Navy Peer Team during World War One. But he and he was a guy who in the 40s, who invited who invented what he called the runner training apparatus. But those are the ropes that we all know and love and that we probably ran through, you know, high-stepping at some point in our career, even if we were linemen.

So that he was the guy who invented the ropes. But you know, you think there's a lot of training devices and steps that people do nowadays. But they originated with obstacles like these boxes or tires, and then ultimately ropes.

And now there are ladders and, you know, different devices, all trying to get people to become more agile, lift their feet, and do other things.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

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Timothy Brown joins Darin Hayes to spotlight the significant yet often overlooked contributions of Henry Mitchell McCracken to the safety and evolution of American football. McCracken, who became NYU's chancellor in the late 19th century, played a pivotal role in advocating for safer rules in the sport during a time when football was facing scrutiny for its dangers.

Of course, this discussion all stems from Tim's original article titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/stadium-size-football-droppers-and-bc6" target="bbcode">Stadium Size, Football Droppers, and Deemphasizers: NYU .

The audio-only podcast of the discussion can be found at: Henry McCracken Contributions.

Following the tragic death of a player during a game, the NYU Chancellor galvanized university leaders to convene and develop new regulations, ultimately leading to the formation of what is now the NCAA. The discussion delves into McCracken's legacy, including his influence on the establishment of halls of fame in the United States and his efforts to reform the game. Join us as we explore these fascinating historical insights and uncover the impact of McCracken's work on modern college football.

The conversation unfolds as Darin Hayes and Timothy Brown recount the historical landscape of football in the early 1900s, shedding light on the challenges and dangers the sport posed to its players. Timothy elaborates on the culture of college athletics at that time, where university presidents and chancellors, like McCracken, wielded significant influence over the direction of sports programs. The episode paints a vivid picture of the educational values intertwined with athletics, as faculty members played a crucial role in governance, leading to a system that prioritized student safety amidst the chaotic nature of early football games. The narrative details how McCracken's response to a fatal accident during a game exemplified the urgent need for reform in college football, ultimately resulting in a collaborative effort from various universities to establish safer playing conditions. This historical reflection not only honors McCracken's contributions but also invites listeners to consider the ongoing evolution of sports governance and safety in today's athletic landscape, drawing parallels between past and present.

Takeaways

-The podcast discusses the contributions of Henry Mitchell McCracken to football safety and history.

-Timothy Brown highlights McCracken's role in establishing the first Hall of Fame in America.

-McCracken's advocacy led to significant changes in football rules after a player was killed.

-The episode emphasizes how college sports governance was once more influenced by university presidents.

-The origins of the NCAA can be traced back to McCracken's initiatives in the early 1900s.

-Listeners learn about the historical context of college football's evolution and its challenges.

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Darin Hayes and Timothy B. Brown embark on a historical journey exploring the fundamentals of kicking in football as they existed in 1923. This enlightening episode provides a detailed examination of the era's kicking techniques, equipment, and the overall strategy involved in the kicking game. Tim shares intriguing anecdotes from a rare publication by Wilson Athletic, which sought to rival the established Spalding brand in sports literature. The pamphlet reveals that drop kicks were the norm for field goals and extra points, highlighting the skill and precision required by kickers of that time.

The conversation stems from Tim's Tidbit titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-the-fundamentals-of" target="bbcode">The Fundamentals of Kicking in 1923

You can also enjoy the audio podcast at: Discovering Football's Roots: Kickoff Techniques from 1923 or on your favorite podcast provider.

The discussion delves into the various techniques and challenges players face, including the importance of proper alignment and the difficulties posed by less reliable snapping methods. Tim also explains how the drop kick allowed for strategic advantages, creating uncertainty in play for opposing teams. This episode serves not only as a history lesson but also as a tribute to the artistry of kicking, showcasing how these historical practices have evolved into the modern kicking game we witness today.

Takeaways

-The podcast discusses the evolution of kicking techniques in American football, particularly focusing on the year 1923.

-Timothy B. Brown shares insights from a 1923 pamphlet detailing the fundamentals of kicking in football.

-Drop kicks were more common in 1923, with teams often lacking practice and good snapping techniques.

-Kickers in the past used dirt mounds for kickoffs due to the absence of tees.

-The history of onside kicks reveals a surprising lack of attempts during early football games.

-Kick return strategies evolved significantly and were influenced by rules established to limit wedge formations.

Additionally, the episode examines the evolution of game rules concerning kicking, such as the introduction of the 10-yard requirement for kickoffs, which aimed to enhance player safety. Tim reflects on the rarity of onside kicks during the early days of football, suggesting that the sport's ethics and strategies have undergone significant transformations. By the end of the episode, listeners gain a profound appreciation for the complexities of football history and its impact on the present-day game.

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Hold onto your helmets, football fans! In a groundbreaking episode, Timothy P. Brown, the mastermind behind FootballArchaeology.com, joins host Darin Hayes to unveil a hidden chapter in American football history. Buckle up as Brown exposes the story of Anthony Harris, the first known Black college football coach at a non-HBCU institution, leading Colby College in 1903 and 1904 – years before the previously credited Matthew Bullock. This revelation throws a fascinating wrench into the established timeline and shines a long-overdue light on Harris's pioneering role in the sport.

However, the episode doesn't shy away from the challenges of unearthing African American contributions. The lack of coverage in mainstream media during this era makes uncovering these stories an uphill battle. But together, Darin and Tim celebrate the importance of recognizing these overlooked figures and ensuring their legacy is preserved for future generations.

This episode promises to be a captivating journey, rewriting narratives and reminding us that football history is richer and more diverse than previously thought.

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In this enlightening episode, the hosts engage with Timothy P. Brown to reflect on the historical significance of home films in capturing football's rich narrative. The dialogue unfolds around Brown's examination of a 1951 Bell & Howell brochure, which offers practical advice for amateur filmmakers seeking to document football games. The hosts draw parallels between the past and present, contemplating the evolution of technology and its impact on how we record and share our experiences.

The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the transient nature of film, with Brown lamenting the potential loss of valuable historical footage due to disintegration and the decline of traditional viewing technologies. In an era where digital formats dominate, the hosts emphasize the necessity of preserving these home movies, advocating for initiatives that allow viewers to reconnect with their familial and cultural histories.

The rich discussions encapsulate not only the technical aspects of filmmaking but also the emotional resonance that these films provide, reinforcing the enduring legacy of football in American culture.

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We experience them in every televised game. They give us time to talk, grab a snack, refill a beverage, or other distractions from watching the game - the TV Timeout, but when did they start, and how did they develop? Historian Tim Brown has some answers.

Of course, this story is based on Tim 's Tidbit titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-the-birth-of-tv-timeouts" target="bbcode">Birth of TV Timeouts.

The audio-only podcast of the discussion can be found at: Unpacking the Birth of TV Timeouts in Football History.

The podcast episode offers an insightful exploration of the intersections between football, television, and commercialism, as articulated by Darin Hayes and Timothy P. Brown. They articulate how football's design and structure make it particularly suited for television, providing an engaging viewing experience with its dynamic action and well-placed breaks. The conversation turns to the history of TV timeouts, tracing their roots back to the NBA's innovative strategies in the 1950s. Brown shares how the NFL adopted these tactics to maximize advertising opportunities, leading to a transformation in how games are broadcasted. The hosts reflect on how this shift has altered the fan experience, noting that while these breaks can enhance convenience for viewers, they often disrupt the game's momentum. This duality is a central theme of the discussion, as they balance the benefits of increased visibility and revenue against the potential drawbacks of commercial interruptions, sparking a broader conversation about the commercialization of sports and its implications for fans.

Takeaways

-Football is an ideal sport for television due to its engaging action and breaks.

-The concept of TV timeouts originated in the NBA before being adopted by football.

-Initially, commercials were limited, and games could go for 10 minutes without a timeout.

-There was significant backlash when TV timeouts were introduced, changing the game dynamics.

-Today, NFL games typically feature numerous scheduled commercial breaks throughout the match.

-Fans have grown accustomed to the presence of commercial interruptions in football broadcasts.

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The Football Archaeology of the Football Men Who Endorsed and helped Goldsmith Sporting Goods to make football equipment in 1935.

Helmets are probably the first piece of equipment we think of when someone asks us about football. The head covering may be the most recognizable element of the gridiron.

Timothy Brown, like many of us, is enamored by the evolution of the football helmet as a product and safety device. Tim collects football catalogs selling the equipment and then dives into the variations and innovations that were derived along the way.

In a recent post, footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-1935-goldsmith-sports" target="bbcode">1935 GoldSmith Sports Equipment Consulting Staff, Tim delved into the 1935 Coaching Consultants and reps that GoldSmith had and then came on to share what he found with us on a podcast episode.

-Transcription of 1935 GoldSmith Sports Equipment Consulting Staff with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends, this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another Tuesday as we get to visit with our friend Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Thank you, sir. Look forward to chatting again, as always, and hopefully we'll have something interesting for people to listen to.

Yeah, you, Tim, you have some amazing things happening, you know, each and every day, and every once in a while you get some of these zingers that like, just like, I can't call it an earworm, I don't know what it is, it just, it stays with me all day when I read it. I read it in the evening and it stays with me through the night. I'm laying in bed thinking about it, wake up next morning, and one of those is, you keep going into the Goldsmith's catalog, and you had one that, you know, that you had back in September out as a tidbit that talks about some staff that Goldsmith's catalog got some information from, so maybe you could talk a little bit about that tonight.

Yeah, so, you know, so I guess, you know, first off, just, you know, by way of background, I have something on the order, you know, 30 or 40 vintage sporting goods catalogs, you know, so I collect them over time, or I've collected them over time, it's just a way to be able to look up, okay, well, you know, some of it's just images, you know, for the tidbits, but it's also just, you know, you can look at them and understand, okay, this is what this equipment was made of at the time, and how things changed and things that they created that disappeared because they didn't really work very well, or they were uncomfortable, you know, whatever it may have been. Anyways, I collect these catalogs, and most of them, I'm just, you know, I'm buying them online, and so I don't, typically, I'm only seeing like cover photographs, a couple of inside pages, but I don't know what, you know, it's not like, you know, it can be a 90 page catalog, but I'm only seeing images of a couple of them. Anyways, this was one of those, you know, I bought this, Goldsmith was a big brand at the time, and I didn't have a lot of Goldsmith catalogs, so I, you know, picked this one up.
And, you know, then once it was delivered, it was like, right away, okay, this is really cool, because in addition to just normal pages, showing the equipment, the pricing and everything for shoulder pads and helmets and whatever, each of the different major types of equipment, they had a lead in cartoon page that kind of told the history of that type of equipment, the history of football shoes, the history of helmets. And so, it was, number one, it's just kind of fun imagery, they're interesting cartoons. So, it was just a way to, you know, kind of go through those, and then, you know, what I've done, you know, it's a series of, there will be an eighth week now, but, you know, so it's just a way to publish, to do these, show these cartoons, and then just go through the equipment of the time.

And so, this is mid-30s, you know, so what was equipment like, you know, then. And so, this, the first of those cartoons was about what they called their consulting staff. And so, that was, you know, essentially, consulting staff was like, the coaches, and one trainer, who were their, like, their advisory staff, they were the guys who they would go to, to talk through, you know, what kinds of changes do we need for the equipment, or if they had a research and development group, they would show them, they'd show these coaches, hey, here's what we've come up with, what do you think about this? Can you have you guys wear this stuff in spring practice, or in regular practice, and see how it performs? You know, so they were, you know, obviously, these coaches were paid.

And in many cases, they, that, you know, the manufacturers would then, you know, just like your old baseball gloves, where it was like, the Mickey Mantle glove, or whatever, you know, there were, there were pants, and helmets, and footballs, that had the Newt Rockne name on it, or who met Pop Warner, and John Heisman, and, you know, so. Well, Tim, was, was Goldsmith, were they sort of in the Midwest? Is that what I'm getting a sense of? Or what part of the country were they centered out of? You know, a lot of the coaches that are on this advisory staff are Midwest guys. So, I kind of get a sense of that.

But, you know, there was a lot of Midwest, like D&M was out east, they were like a Massachusetts firm, but Spalding was Midwest, Reach, I believe, was Midwest, or a couple down in St. Louis. So, yeah, I don't have that catalog in front of me. But I could, you know, I could look, look it up.

And I can, you know, let you know, you know, kind of where they were based. Yeah, that's, that's what I was, Is there a reason you ask her? Well, I know that Spalding was out of Chicago, and it just seemed, you know, and it seems like, like you said, this, a lot of these coaches are Midwestern teams, Western Conference, Big Ten teams. And I just wondering, you know, if there was a reason why maybe, you know, distribution or something that they were in the center of the country because you really, you think about that area, you know, football starting in the east and moving west, you'd almost think the equipment would be more of an eastern-based, you know, industrial shipping out.

But just curious. Yeah, I think, well, my understanding is a lot of it was the stockyards in Chicago, you know, so there was access to leather. Okay, you know, so I mean, so much of the early equipment, yeah, so much of the early equipment was leather, that, you know, it made more sense to be where you could pick and choose and get high-grade leathers and yada, yada, yada.

So, yeah, I mean, it's funny, it's one of those things you wouldn't even think is, you know, there's no reason anymore, you know, to be near a source of leather.
Obviously, you know, baseball gloves are a different story. But otherwise, you know, most football equipment, there's no leather involved anymore.

And then the ball, you know, obviously, the balls were leather. So anyways, yeah, that's, that's why I love it, you know, started in the Midwest. That makes perfect sense.

Okay, thanks. Yeah, so, so then, you know, like these coaches were, you know, the folks that they had on at that point, so in 1935, they had a Hunk Anderson, who was at North Carolina State, but it just finished a tour at Notre Dame. So Midwest, then he had played at Notre Dame.

Noble Kizer was at Purdue. Fritz Crisler was at Princeton, but he had been at, he had played at Uof Chicago. He had coached Minnesota before going to Princeton.

And then obviously ended up at Michigan. Doc Spears had been all over. Well, he kind of he was a journeyman, he was actually a doctor, but a football coach, but he was at Wisconsin at the time.

And I can't remember if he had just gone there. I think he got fired after that, and then went out to Oregon, or it could have been the other way around. And then this guy, Frank Major Wandel, from Yale, who was, he was one of those interesting guys at the time, there were a lot of, it's kind of like, you know, there are these strength and conditioning coaches now who are, you know, kind of, they have their own brand, they're, they're nationally known, nationally recognized guys.

And, you know, back then, there were trainers like that, too. And he was one of them. So he'd been longtime trainer at West Point, and he ends up down at, I think it was LSU for a couple of years.

Then he ends up at Yale, which is where he was at at the time. So, so actually, the mix isn't that much Midwestern. But it's interesting, because the image that you have, and folks, if you've got to enjoy these images that Tim's talking about, we have link in the show notes, you can go to Tim's page and see some of these, he's talking about these cartoons.

But Major Wandel, you know, everybody else is sort of wearing like white knickers. And he's got like, I don't know if they're plaid knickers, or, but that's what jumps out of you on the page to me, is these knickers. And it's he's in the lower right hand corner of the page I'm looking at, but he must have been a character to have some like looks like he's golfing, maybe.

Yeah, I mean, he's one of those guys who just like came out of some gym in New Jersey, and ended up eventually hooking in with, he did some training, you know, during World War One, and then ends up at West Point for quite a while. But yeah, I mean, back then, trainers were function both. They handled both the kind of sports medicine side, you know, they weren't physicians.

But when we think about athletic training, we're thinking about, you know, hot baths, and cold baths, and, you know, taping guys, and, you know, some kind of contraption, you know, so it doesn't hurt, as well as strength and condition. So they were both at the time, and mostly conditioning, they didn't do as much strength work. But yeah, a lot of these guys were, you know, they're big on the whole, getting guys to roll on the ground to toughen them up.

Things that we now think are pretty absurd, but, you know, that was kind of core beliefs at the time. Yeah, I can remember back when I was playing when I was, like, I think the first year I played, maybe I was in fifth grade or something. I remember our coach, he was old school.

He was an older guy. And you'd have part of your calisthenics, you'd run in place, and then drop and make sure your stomach hits first, because that's going to toughen your gut up, you know, as everybody gets the wind knocked out of when you hit the ground, and you're gasping trying to get back up. But I picture that kind of training.

Yeah, that was the deal. But one of the things I thought was kind of cool, I can't remember, you know, which eater left this as a comment or a question, but, you know, I'm a Purdue fan. And, you know, there were a lot of schools back in the 30s that wore winged helmets, right? I mean, we now associated with just a select few schools.

But back then, it was very common. Nevertheless, you know, this guy made a comment that you know, back in the 30s, mid-30s, in particular, Purdue wore winged helmets, you know, so wing in front straps, you know, going back, kind of, you know, the Michigan, Delaware, Princeton style now. But she's like, so that's where you know because Noble was one of these advisory coaches.

And so I would bet if you look at images of the Purdue team from that era, there probably weren't some, some form of Goldsmith helmet, right? So as opposed to some competitive brand. So anyways, but for him, it was kind of a neat insight because it's like, so that's why they were those, those stupid. Now, with these coaches, sort of being on the board of directors, or the consultants of the now the day, is that, you know, their teams buy all their equipment from a Goldsmith, then is that was that's part of the deal of, you know, I've never really seen anything that goes into the details of those kinds of contracts.

I mean, I've read a few things about Knute Rockne because he was like, I mean if you think that there's somebody that, that is on every commercial nowadays, like, you know, save been, you know, down in Alabama's on a fair amount of stuff. But Rockne was, I mean, he was pitching, obviously, all kinds of athletic equipment. And then he pitched Ramblers or Studebakers, you know, one of those brands, he made coffee, he did all you know, stuff for Kelloggs, a lot of stuff for Kelloggs, and they had coffee at the time.

I just thought Barbasol was big on Barbasol. So he was from a Holmes and Travis Kelsey, eat your hearts out. Newt Rocky was first.

That's right. Major sponsor ambassador. Yeah.

Okay, so well, yes. Did the coach or did the teams buy that brand of equipment? And so I've never really, you know, I've never seen anything definitive. In that regard, and I have this kind of a storyline I've never checked into.

You know, I have read a number of things with Newt Rocky and his, you know, he, he promoted a lot of different kinds of consumer goods, but then also a lot of football equipment. So I mean, I have to believe that they, at minimum, they benefited from the, you know, they got discounts on the equipment, and in some cases, free stuff in order to test it, you know, it had to be that kind of thing going on. But, you know, the research I've done in the past about, you know, like when logos first came, you know, when logos became prominent in the 60s, really Adidas, you know, among track athletes that whole thing got going, and they were, you know, giving away equipment, paying athletes to wear their branded goods.

So that's really where that started. But there were probably, you know, less, you know, maybe a little bit less formal, you know, kinds of, you know, deals in the past, right? You know, yeah, I'm just picturing like a high school coach or athletic director saying, Hey, you know, Fritz Kreisler's endorsing this product, goldsmith, we better write our equipment there, because, you know, we're, we're Fritz Kreisler fans, or, you know, you know, Hunky Anderson fans, whatever, you know, they see they're endorsing it. And, you know, that's probably a lot of the attraction from for having them on the covers.

Yeah. And, you know, I'm sure they got that they got paid something just like, you know, the baseball gloves. And, you know, those athletes got things, and somehow they get money when their gloves are sold.

Right. So right. But, you know, the details of it, I don't understand, or, you know, really know anything about.

I wonder, I picture, you know because you have some great images of the helmets. I wonder maybe, you know, we can look back at some old photographs. Maybe I'll do that in some spare time here and look and see if you can tell a goldsmith helmet from, you know, a Spalding or some of the other manufacturers.
And maybe you can tell that way and say, Hey, you know, Purdue was wearing a goldsmith in 37 or. Yeah. And yeah.

Well, even in that article, I did do that. I couldn't find a good sharp image of the Princeton team from that era to see, well, what helmet they wore? Well, in fact, what I, the only thing I really found was a, it was a painting or an illustration from a year, you know, Princeton yearbook. And the helmets of Princeton players are wearing what we think of as a classic winged helmet.

It was. There's a helmet style. It kind of looks like, now I'm blanking on the term, but it's kind of like a three-leaf clover sort of design. It's, you know, so anyway, but, you know, and Goldsmith offered that helmet and, or that style of helmet, but I think others did as well.

So sometimes it's hard to tell like what brand, because, you know, people, you know, they, they wore, you know, they had similar designs, you know, different brands. Okay. Gotcha.

All right. So go ahead and continue. Yeah.

Well, I was mostly just gonna say, I'm not sure, you know, I'm just, I put together some notes in advance. And so I don't know that I had had anything else. I mean, other than just one of the things that's pretty remarkable, as in all the catalogs or in all the different products, is it like on helmets, you could go from, like, say, a $15 helmet down to like one that costs $2 and 35 cents.

So the, you know, they, they end up having these high end helmets, and then, then there's kind of moderately priced ones, and then there's pretty inexpensive helmets. And so you just gotta, you know, it's like now, every helmet has to meet a certain base at least, you know, performance level, you know, based on Noxi. But, you know, back then, it was like, well, no, we, this is a helmet, it's good.

You know, but there's no measurement standards or anything. It's just like you're taking somebody's word for it. Yeah, that leads into one of the questions I was gonna ask you because the the ad for the helmets that you have on this tidbit, you know, it has three examples of helmets that they were promoting.

And all of them say leather lined. Now, what would be the alternative to leather-lined in that era? Would it be like, you know, cloth or something? Or, you know? Yeah, I think the internals were either leather or felt for the most part. And so you'll, you'll also see things.

You pretty much have to look at the less expensive ones to get a handle on the alternatives. For example, moleskin was kind of a high-end material for pants. It was not as popular in the 1930s, but it was still a high-end material.

Canvas was a low-end material. And then there might be different kinds of twills and maybe duck and whatever. I don't even know what some of those things really are, that they're one form of cotton, you know, material or another, but then by the 30s, you were getting into, you know, silk, and a lot of times it's like airplane cloth, which is actually a form of silk.

So silk, and then I'm blanking on the kind of the really shiny material that satin, you'd see that satin, yeah, it's so you'd see satin on the front of you know, certain, certain teams pants. So yeah, I mean, some of it was once they got into some of the, the not-so-like silk, one of the real values of it was lighter, much more water repellent, you know, so it didn't soak up sweat and, you know, water in a rainy situation. So the players, you know, felt lighter, but it also silk is much easier to dye.

And you can do a much broader range of colors, whereas the duck and canvas pretty much always had earth tones, you know, one or tone or another. So everybody wore kind of the same look in pants until New York versus wearing purple pants. So, you know, I mean, it's, you think about it, that was a big deal.

Awesome. Somebody, hey, they're wearable pants. Right? Yeah, I was just trying to go when you were saying, you know, that from the $15 helmet down to the $2 and 35 cent helmet, I'm picturing, you know, hey, you know, varsity players, you get the $15 helmet with a leather lined and freshmen, you're going to get the burlap lined helmets, you know, uncomfortable.

Yeah, well, I'm sure that sure that was short, obviously, the freshmen who were wearing the stuff, those latest and greatest 10 years ago. Right. And the thing on some of that is, I was looking at, so I'm still writing, you know, writing one of these, and it there's, there's kind of like a flap in the back between kind of the ear hole area in the back.

It's got some kind of flexible extension, some kind of elastic band there. So there was that part of the sizing. If you look at the catalog, sometimes not a lot is said about helmet sizing.

And so, you know, I always had a big old water bucket head. So I needed a big helmet. I've got a younger brothers, you know, got a pinhead.

And, you know, so, but presumably, we would have been issued the same helmet. So, yeah, I'm sure they had some kind of size variations, but, you know, they don't talk about much of the catalog size variations. You had to stuff some straw or a rag in the back or something to make it stay on your head.

Tim, that's a fascinating stuff. And you've, you've got a lot of these goldsmiths that you've been coming out as you said, you had an eight-part series on it, but you have a lot of other interesting stuff coming out, you know, seven days a week. Maybe you could share with folks how they could get in touch with you to learn about your tidbits and read them each and every day.

Yeah. So, you know, so my preferring would be that it just visits the site and you subscribe. And, you know, that way, basically if you're subscribed, you can, you'll get the, you'll get the tidbit by email every night.

Cause I assume it's seven o'clock Eastern. If you, if you're a Substack reader, you can also just get it and follow me on Substack. And then, you know, you'll, you'll be able to get them every night.

Some people don't want the email, but there you go. They like getting it on Substack. I also, at least for now, tweet it every night.

And then I also posted on the application threads. So me on one of those, it's always Football Archaeology. You know, if you enter that, you'll find me.

And then it's kind of like happy reading. All right. Well, Timothy Brown, thank you.
Once again, footballarchaeology.com is the place to go and we appreciate you, sir. And we will talk to you again next Tuesday.

Very good.

Thank you. Thanks, Tim.

Transcribed by TurboScribe

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Have you ever stopped to think about the iconic flip-down markers used to signal first downs in football? Today on the podcast, we delve into the fascinating history of this sideline staple with special guest historian Timothy Brown!

Timothy Brown of FootballArchaeaology.com a renowned expert on the evolution of sports equipment, joins us to explore.

Today's episode and discussion is based on Tim's original post titled:footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-col-roy-c-baker-and/comments" target="bbcode">Col. Roy C. Baker And The Flip-Style Down Marker .

We also have this available in podcast form The Flip-Style Down Marker Innovation of Colonel Baker.

So please sit down and relax and enjoy the gridiron lore!

Flip-Style Down Marker with Timothy Brown

Hello my football friends, this is Darin Hayes of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pigpen, your portal of positive football history, and welcome to another Tuesday where we have our friend Timothy P Brown, a footballarchaeology.com, to tell us about another aspect of football history. Maybe He's not mainstream and we don't know much about but we're gonna learn something today Tim. Welcome back to the Pigpen.

Hey, it's very good to see you, and I think this Podcast will Have people flipping out.

Well, I'm definitely flipping out about it because you put your subject matter that you're gonna talk about today as something That's near and dear to my heart being a former official something that I used quite a bit You had an article back in May called Colonel Roy Baker and the flip style downed Marker Now this is something I'm very familiar with in my early days of officiating and love to hear the history of it.

Yeah well, you know, so Depending on when the listeners came of age in terms of their football fandom You know if they're some kind of young and they might only remember the louvered down markers where you know the guy the dial-a-downs Yeah, the dial-a-downs exactly and But before that There were a whole, you know, there are a number of different Variations on you know first there were chains and then they you know created down markers that or down boxes Which initially were just boxes, you know on a stick with a one two, three or four on the four sides of the box And so but none of those were entirely satisfactory because you know Depending on which direction you had the down Marker pointing then somebody was If they were in a different position in the stadium or on the field, they they saw a different number So there was always some confusion There and this isn't a lot of times in the days before there were really effective scoreboards that would tell you the down so There's this guy Roy C Baker Who was a 1932 South Dakota grad? Who's an ROTC there? He was a cheerleader. I didn't find any information about him playing Football in high school or college, but I suspect he played in high school.

He was from a small town in South Dakota. So I'm sure they needed every athlete that they could get, you know. Seems like a fairly athletic guy, so, you know, he graduates from South Dakota in 32, and he taught for a couple of years in, You know, South Dakota High School, but then he moves to Wyoming, and he at each of those places he's you know, these are small Small community high schools. He's the football coach and the basketball coach and, you know, pretty successful in both. You know, sometimes a little tough in the first year or two that he was coaches, But you know, he had some pretty good teams, especially in basketball, actually. But you know, for whatever reason, in the late 30s, he became dissatisfied with the way that the down boxes worked in Football, and Football had tried a lot of different solutions.

They were different. You know, now we're using chips, I guess, but they, you know, They tried different things like surveying kind of tools to line it up properly, And you know, some kind of crazy things to try to get, you know, accurate accuracy but though but His solution was much more focused on the fans and the players on the field than just the visibility of the down on the down Marker, so he's the guy who came up with the flip-style down And you know, he kind of prototyped it just using sheets of paper And if you think about it And I can wrote about it. I kind of went through the sequence in the written article, But it's like okay, so the on one side of the sheet has to be Matched with a two on the other side and then a two match with three and a three-match the four and then a four-match with a one in order for the numbers to correspond so both sides are displaying either one or two or three or four and So he figured that out it's like so obvious to anybody who looks at it, you know like And it's like why didn't anybody think of that and the numbers got to be upside down to the number on the other side Because you're flipping it over. Yeah.

Yeah, so, but I mean, he Used a couple of sheets of paper to figure it out, and boom. He made it so then he had, you know, he started having them produced in metal at a local, you know, sheet metal shop and Painting them up, and then he started selling them, you know, no locally, but he also sold one to the University, Nebraska So that was maybe his breakthrough where you know people start noticing this thing and And he files for a patent in 41 he gets the patent in like April of 42 Like two weeks later, you know, I said earlier he was an ROTC in college and he he was In the Army Reserves throughout that time, you know so World War two had just started so he gets called up So now he you know, it's gives up his teaching job joins, you know heads into the army and While he was in the army during World War two others started producing His flip style down markers and then selling them through the big sporting goods companies So he gets back to the States, you know, he was in Europe during the war. He gets back to states, and You know, They're using these flip-style down markers all over the place.

So he goes to some lawyers, and they basically say, well, You know, this isn't like a high dollar value product. You're probably not gonna get much out of suing these people because he had told that he told the companies, Hey, you're violating my patent, and they had said sue me, right? So, you know, he ended up just deciding not to pursue it for whatever reason but mostly on the lawyer's advice, So he never really got anything out of it. You know, he came up with this concept, which is brilliant in its simplicity, right? And really, the only recognition that he got was in 83 when the Redskins were in We're heading into the Super Bowl. He was profiled in the Washington Post with an article, you know, basically telling the story that he had, you know about what had happened to him.

So that article is helpful to me. But what, you know, obviously I had to go figure out his background, the high schools and all that kind of stuff, but the other thing just about this story is it's one of those where a lot of times some of my favorite stories are this came about because I mean I kind of you know, I've written a bunch of stuff in the past about these various downmarket attempts and but this one came about because An in-law relative of his Reached out to me and said hey, do you know about this guy this Roy C Baker? I was like, no, never heard of him, and But then once I do, you know, once I googled or used newspapers.com to look for That Washington Post article popped up, and then it was just like, you know, Katie bar the door, you know so anyways I just I love the stories where it's connected to somebody's relative a son a daughter grandchild whatever Who's like? You know, trying to figure out what the truth is behind their Ancestor story, or they're Giving the guys some recognition for a great invention to get credited for run paid for, But you know, really, I would guess from at least the early 50s, you know from then on Until the dial-a-down came around and that was like 87 or so I think is when that first came up the flip style down Marker was the downmarket I mean, you didn't see anything else on a football field So especially when they went to plastic, I know I know when I first started officiating in the 80s We had metal ones. There were some plastic ones out there But the plastic ones were great, especially like in our area when you started officiating you would be for varsity games You would hold the chains and do the downmarkers for the varsity game watching the more senior officials do it So you get those cold days in like October November and you're I mean you're holding it a metal pole So your hand gets close you have a glove on you're trying to do it one-handed But the the plastic ones are nice because you could just shake the the pat the pole a little bit and it would flip it You know, you could if you did just write it up and you'd have to use both hands to flip the thing around So we love the plastic ones Yeah, well, but you know, I mean I think anybody who watched Football and For whatever 30 40 year period You know the flipped style downmarker was the only thing out there Yeah, I mean, I I don't even remember seeing a dial down till probably the mid 90s in our area You know, everybody still had the plastics and especially lower level games.

They still use the plastics. I think yeah because those would have been more expensive. Yeah, And it's like, do you really need to replace something that works because it still works? You know, the flip-style would still work just fine, so now going back in before the flip style when they had the Traditional boxes, you know when I've we've all seen images of them, you know, I know there are some collectors on the vintage Collector community that we're in that some guys have them Walks and like you said you did they were down done they did they should where did they show the correct down? There was it to the players on the field point. It pointed to the field of a second down to two facing the field. That's right.

Okay, and so, you know, the funny thing originally when they first were doing the down rod, initially was just a rod, and the Headlinesman actually Carried it around with him on the field, and I, you know, So I've got pictures out there. I did another tidbit on this, but with a bunch of pictures of guys running up and down the field these rods, so originally, they didn't have any kind of box or anything. It was just, you know, that it allowed them to kind of stick it into the ground, and You know, you'd think they would have left it there. But anyway, they'd pick it up.

They'd pick it up and run with it, and then they started putting the boxes on the poles, but those were still, you know, like maybe up to waist height, you know, they just weren't very tall. Then finally they put them up a top a pole that like rose above The assistant linesman's head, you know, so eventually it got turned over to the assistant linesman and you know, they would You know, so I've got in this tidbit I've got a picture of of one of the the older stuff ones that is One that's below kind of below the waist version and then another one That's about as high as a flip down Marker would have been or even the current dial it down So, you know at least that was visible to fans, you know the the short ones, you know I mean, they were really only intended for the players and the officials because Nobody else could see it All right, I guess maybe the opposing sideline could see it in the opposing fans but you know, whoever was across the field could see it, but Nobody behind that official would be able to see it you know just a little Sidebar taken going into the world of officiating a lot of people don't know this but the officials The box is important because it's more more so for the spot of the ball and we make you know We all try to make sure because the headlinesman has his back to the chains in the box most of the time So it's usually the line judge, which is on the opposite sideline who's facing him. Let's tell them, Hey, it's you know, you're showing a two, and it's third down because officials every official has a rubber-like piece of elastic it goes on your wrist and it goes over your fingers, and People do it.

You know, some guys would do it. You know your fourth if you put the rubber band on your four fingers first down; you put it on your middle finger. Second down, I did it in did a group of fingers, you know I had the rubber band around one finger first down two fingers It was second down, and that and so you're really, and that's why we're whole the officials are holding up a number Signaling to the other officials. So we're all on the same page. Hey, it's second down. Yeah, I got second down, and then you look at the box and say, okay.

Yes, you're showing second down, So that's just how the officials do it. So I'm I don't know what they did prior to having those, you know when they had that rod, I'm sure they probably maybe did something unique like that, or I heard Some older guys that I did it started in the 50s when I started officiating they used to hold pebbles in their hands I don't know what they did with the pebble, you know they switched hands or something and did I I'm not coordinated enough to hold pebbles and You know blow a lanyard whistle that they used to have around their neck Yeah, I'd be kind of too much but that's how the officials do the downs most the times with a piece of elastic on their fingers Yeah, well, you know they like in the old catalogs. There's, You know, for a long time, they sold little, you know, hand clicker things That would have down in the distance, you know, much like an umpire would use to keep track of balls and strikes But you know, for a long time, you know again before Official signals became, you know fairly standardized You know a lot of times whoever was posting stuff on the scoreboard They were kind of guessing, you know, whether there had been a first down or not because sometimes it wasn't clear You know, the officials didn't always signal things. So the way that we just assume they're going to today So there, you know, there are games where they had the wrong score on the scoreboard, you know, for a long time, and so it was, You know, Thankfully as much as I dislike sometimes hearing the referee talk during the games it's Communications is much better today than it has been in the past Yeah, and the majority of them are pretty good at talking.

Yeah, conforming things. There are some guys that say some things. You're like one, so why would you even say that? Who knows? I just want to watch the game and not have to hear the explanation. It's not really a criticism of the officials themselves, and some of them actually have a really good sense of humor, right? Tim, you know, that is a great piece. You know, to talk about, you know, some officiating equipment, something that all of us look at when we go to a game, and you know, sometimes on television, we see it come into our view. You can see the downs so it's just kind of cool to to hear the history of that and Give some some love to the guy that invented the one probably lasted the longest of all the Down markers that flip style which you know I think everybody's familiar that's watched Football at least the last 20 years or so So, you know great piece of history there and you have some little unique pieces like this a lot on your website maybe you can share with the Folks how they can tune into some of these pieces that you have sure You know, it's just easiest thing is go to footballarchaeology.com subscribe and You know, you'll get an email every time that I yes issue a new You know have a new post you'll get an email into your box with that content alternatively follow me on Twitter on Substack or on threads You can be one of about six or seven people who follows me on threads if you want to And or you know just go on out and hit the site whenever you want, you know, whatever you want to I'll also just take a moment here to some put in a plug I've got a new book coming out called a history of the Football. So, as far as I know, it is the first book to look at the history of American Football and Canadian Football. I covered their ball as well. So, you know, it takes us back to the rugby days and then all the way up until the present. How did it change shape, size, colors, and stripes? Materials etc.

So it's just kind of a fun little read. Yeah, and I'm coming soon to an Amazon site near you. Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you if you had a date set for release, but I still do that. I do not know, but we'll get some information from you when it officially comes out. We'll make sure we share that with everybody, too. But I'm looking forward to that. Do you have any place where people can pre-order anything? I think there's some technique.

I'm running into a technical issue right now. It's just related to the cover. You know, I think in order to allow pre-order, you have to have the cover ready, okay, and so All right, so the answer is no problem, we'll just keep watching, and we'll keep posting when we know things on pigskin dispatch and keep watching Tim's Social media and everything and in footballarchaeology.com, and we'll figure out what's coming real soon So real exciting book so can't wait to get my hands on it.

So Tim, we really appreciate you coming on here and sharing, you know, aspects of this, You know, flip down and the dial it down in the box and its history, and I Love to talk to you about another aspect of football history next week.

Yeah, I will be here.

Timothy P. Brown of Football Archaeology shares his research and a keen eye for unique helmet designs. This episode focuses on the "winged" helmet design and the homage paid to it by a few teams in the modern era.

Our conversation is based on a Tidbit of Tim's he titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-when-leather-helmets?utm_source=publication-search" target="bbcode">When Leather Helmets Earned Their Wings.

-Transcribed Winged Helmets with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends, Darin Hayes, PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pig Pen. And we have another great episode where we're going to talk to the resident expert, who says that we, well, are not our residents, but we go to footballarchaeology.com residents and talk to their great founder and historian, Timothy P. Brown. Tim, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Darin, thank you. I have a leather helmet sitting here in front of me. Uh, I no longer, it no longer fits.

Yeah, I can see your name etched in the back of it there for, from your, from your playing days, I assume. No, this was for my uncle's playing days. Really? Okay.

So that is a genuine game-playing helmet, then? It's not a game that used Spalding helmets. And, uh, I actually did wear this in my backyard football day days in my youth. When the other neighborhood kids had those plastic, cheap plastic little things, I didn't have one of those.

So I pulled this baby out and protected my noggin. Well, Hey, it, uh, it's in your logo too. So that's, that's always a good thing too, or something similar to it.

So that's great. So folks, if you didn't realize it yet, our topic today is going to be a tidbit that Tim just a little while ago called when leather helmets earned their wings. So we're gonna get some history on these leather helmets that Tim just showed us.

So, Tim, I'll let you take it away. Yeah. So, you know, I think it's, uh, so, you know, fashion and styles are, you know, everybody's got their own tastes, right?

And I have made public my, um, my belief that the 1930s produced the ugliest football uniforms. I've written a poster too on that and provide photographic evidence, uh, which no one has been able to refute so far. Uh, I mean, it just, they just had stripes going.

There were so many stripes, uh, on some of those uniforms that it was just ungodly ugly. But the 1930s also produced winged helmets, which, um, now people associate, uh, typically with Michigan, Delaware, uh, Princeton, and then there's probably, you know, 300 high schools spread across the country that wear those ugly things. But so as not to offend you, if you're a fan of one of those teams, they're still ugly.

So, but then, the point, the real point is not, you know, I mean, I'm an equal opportunity ugliness kind of historian. So, I am willing to discuss the origins of wings and winged helmets. And I think really the funniest thing about them is that they, the first team to wear winged helmets, was not Michigan, but Ohio State, which is just kind of a fun little.

That's really ironic. Yes. So, so what happened, you know, um, in 1930, there were some new rules put in place that required helmets to have different colors or at least contrasting colors.

Now that could be done either by painting them or by, um, you know, I think most people are familiar with the straps that ran across the tops and there were different patterns, including, you know, what we now think of as kind of the Michigan helmet. There were straps running along the crown of the helmet. And so those could be painted or oftentimes when they produce the helmets, it would be the leather would be in different colors.

So the straps might be a dark Brown or a light Brown, and the rest of it, you know, you know, different variation. Um, but they did that because, in the late twenties, there were people who were, you know, uh, on their shirts, on the front of their jerseys, and on their, uh, on the inside of their arms and things. And they'd wear them in the same color as some of them would wear them in the same color as the football.

So then people were confusing the leather on the iron with the leather on the football. And there were even running backs who would like to toss their helmet off so that, you know, defenders would see the helmet bouncing along the ground and think that's a ball. So they kind of put it, put a stop to that, and they said, okay, your helmets have to have contrasting colors, uh, at the same time.

So there was, that was kind of a stylistic, but it also had a functional use. At the same time, the manufacturers were all trying to create better, more protective helmets. And one of the things that they all kind of did at the same time was to add pads on the front of the helmet about where, you know, the forehead is.

And so rather than just put a pad on there, which is what they had done previously, they started stylizing those pads. And so, um, you know, one version was the wing that we think of now where it kind of, you know, there's the, it kind of moves around a little bit, and then there's this, uh, you know, kind of these tips on either side, but there were, you know, that wasn't the only version. There were 20 or 30 different versions of these things.

Some of them were, I don't even know how to describe it. Cause I, I did some looking before we talked about the shape, but it's, um, it's like a cross between an upside down T and a shamrock with three, with three leaves, you know, that there's kind of had this bulb, bulges thing or bulbous thing, like where the wing would be, and then it would extend all the way up to the, to the top of the crown. So anyway, we're just a lot of different variations on these things.

And so the wings were functional because they pat, you know, they provide additional pads, but for the manufacturers, they were making them try to make them look cool, right? So that people would buy them. I mean, if it was between the DMN, DNM helmet, and the reach helmet, and they were the same price and presumably the same quality, well, whichever one looked cooler would be the one that you'd order. So, um, anyways, I mean, that's kind of the whole deal of it.

And the actual, um, tidbit shows a lot of pictures from sporting goods catalogs at the time. But what's happened is that despite there being many variations back then, every team that I see pretty much has the same today. You know, the same teams are all the teams today that use that winged look seem to pretty much have the same look, you know, they don't, you know, they don't, they don't use the other versions that were available.

So, if you're a high school coach or somebody out there who has an influence on helmet designs, you can go your own way and adapt to one of the looks from the thirties, which is something other than the Michigan helmet. Well, I'm going to have to, uh, make a true confession here that I didn't figure out that Michigan's helmet, 'cause that's the one that's the most popular of these winged helmets. I didn't realize, you know, it was a winged helmet.

I thought that was representing their mascot, the Wolverine. And I was trying to envision a Wolverine. I'm thinking, boy, Wolverines have stripes going down her back and down her sides like that.

And like the wings were sort of the ears of it. That's what I thought, you know, it was until I got into college and found out otherwise, but I never realized it was; they were sort of modeling it after the leather helmets that came before them on the plastic and whatever they make them out of now. But, uh, so very interesting.

So, I'm glad you felt comfortable sharing that with us. Yeah, I am. So there are probably people I'll get the mail coming in now.

You idiot. I mean, there's all kinds of things like that where, you know, I didn't realize that this is where that came from. Yeah.

I guess I never really put a lot of thought into it, but I just assumed it was a Wolverine. I mean, so, um, actually, in my book, How Football Became Football, I've got a picture of, I can't remember his name right now, but an offensive tackle for Ohio State and, you know, wearing the helmet from 1930. So, uh, proof positive that, uh, you know, Michigan didn't invent the things, but, you know, they're obviously the ones that are all associated with them.

And it takes a Wisconsin fan to point that out about the Michigan state. Actually, there's a Michigan state fan who has documented a fair amount of this stuff on the internet. So you want some others to, uh, to jump in on that big ten rivalries, uh, going back in history and picking on their headgear, uh, all good stuff.

Well, Tim, that was really enlightening. And I appreciate you coming on and sharing this tonight. Now you have these tidbits that come out each and every day, uh, seven days a week, 365; you're a busy guy and, uh, you, you like to share them, and you like people to enjoy them and comment and, uh, share them with other people.

Why don't you, uh, tell folks how they can get a hold of your tidbits on a daily basis? Sure. So, the easiest way is to go to footballarchaeology.com. Um, when you hit the site, if you haven't been there before, it's going to ask you to enroll or subscribe. All you have to do is just enter your email.

Uh, it's free. You'll get, uh, you'll get an email every night with whatever the story is for that day. And, uh, you can also follow me on Twitter.

You know, obviously, I'm going to throw out some other things on Twitter besides, you know, more commenting on somebody else's things, but I do share all my tidbits there, but subscribing just ensures you get it. And then you can, you know, it's in your inbox. You can ignore it for two weeks and then read whatever you want to read.

So, you know, that's kind of the value of subscribing to you. Um, but yeah, it's supposed to be fun, and hopefully, that's the way it comes across. All right.

Well, folks, I highly recommend you, uh, take Tim up on that offer to get the tidbits and whatever your preference is to get it and, uh, visit footballarchaeology.com and see the wisdom and knowledge of Timothy P. Brown in action. Tim, thanks a lot. And we will talk to you again next week.

Thank you, sir. Look forward to it.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.