By Darin The examination of the 19th overall pick in the NFL draft elucidates its historical prominence and the dichotomy of its recent selections, which have, for the most part, failed to live up to the legacy established by predecessors. The episode probes into the annals of football history to unearth the remarkable achievements of players who have donned the mantle of the 19th pick, showcasing individuals who not only reached the pinnacle of their professions but also redefined their positions in the league. The discourse navigates through the compelling narratives of MVPs and Hall of Famers, pinpointing how their selections at this position have become synonymous with offensive prowess and defensive fortitude. Throughout the conversation, we juxtapose these illustrious careers with a critical analysis of the recent draft history, which appears to cast a shadow over the 19th pick's potential for success. As the speakers reflect on the last decade of draft choices, a consistent theme emerges—many selections have yielded underwhelming results, leading to a broader discourse on the evolving strategies employed by NFL teams. The episode serves as a clarion call for enhanced scrutiny of the drafting process, emphasizing the importance of historical context in evaluating present decisions. Our engagement with the guest, Ed Cleese, further enriches this exploration, as he shares insights drawn from years of following the league, culminating in a nuanced discussion of the factors that contribute to a player’s success post-draft.
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Transcript
The NFL draft is a game of inches, but at pick number 19, it's a game of touchdowns.
Speaker A:This slot has launched some of the most prolific scorers in football history.
Speaker A:We're talking about an NFL MVP and two first ballot hall of Famers who redefined their positions from the 19th overall spot.
Speaker A:From the anchor of a legendary line to the wideout who caught 128 passes in a single season, pick number 19 is a gold mine for offensive firepower.
Speaker A:Today we dive into the legendary voices in the classic lore of the 19 selection.
Speaker A:This is your football fix as we talk about the 19th overall picks with our guest Ed Cleese.
Speaker A:Welcome to Pigskin Dispatch, your place for football history.
Speaker A:Welcome, friends.
Speaker A:before the:Speaker A:Joining me today as always in our countdown is Ed Cleese.
Speaker A:Ed, welcome back to the Pig pen.
Speaker B:Hey Darren, how are you today?
Speaker A:I'm doing super and it is getting almost to crunch time.
Speaker A:You know, the war rooms are very busy.
Speaker A:The scouts have made their pleas for the picks, the coordinators are pounding the tables and it's getting exciting here as we get closer to the NFL draft.
Speaker A:But we're going to talk a little bit about the history of this 19th pick in the NFL drafts of the past.
Speaker A:So what do you have to say about your perspective?
Speaker B:Well, I'd say the last two years were looking good.
Speaker B:That's Emeka Buka and Jared Verse.
Speaker B:The last two years, nice, very nice starts to careers.
Speaker B:But after that, Darren, the recent history, with one big exception which we'll talk about is really lacking.
Speaker B:Here's some names for you.
Speaker B:Trevor Penning, Jamin Davis, Damon Arnett, Leighton Vanderesh, O.J.
Speaker B:Howard.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, those are all in the last 10 to 12 years and there was a lot of names like that.
Speaker B:So recent history hasn't shown very well on the 19th pick.
Speaker B:th overall since:Speaker B:So not great history there.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I mean it's not a great history recently, but I will say this is one of our bigger numbers.
Speaker A:We talked about there's been five hall of Famers so far from the 19th pick.
Speaker A:I know you're going to talk about a couple of them.
Speaker A:of them those five or before:Speaker A:We'll talk about them after your top five, but why don't you tell us a little bit about some of the notables before you get in your top five.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:It's been really rough for running backs taken in the spot.
Speaker B:This is a little bit of a trend we've talked feel like we've pointed out a lot of rough running backs doing these lists.
Speaker B:George Adams by the Giants in:Speaker B:Paul Palmer by the Chiefs in:Speaker B:Daryl Thompson, Packers:Speaker B:That's a seven year window of four running backs taken and only one of them one year went over 500 yards and that was the Thompson had 601 time.
Speaker B:But other than that, that total busts guys that as a, you know, obviously follower, borderline historian, I like to fancy myself didn't.
Speaker B:Don't remember these guys at all.
Speaker B:And so the 19th pick, I think we are in the territory where you're going to expect a lot more from your picks.
Speaker B:So they didn't come through.
Speaker B:Some guys that did come through some honorable mentions.
Speaker B:Antonio Cromarti in:Speaker B:Casey Hampton, drafted in:Speaker B:n the NFL Forever, drafted in:Speaker B:Tarek Glenn, 97, was on the early Colts teams with Peyton was a protector for him on the offensive line.
Speaker B:Todd Stussy,:Speaker B:nd Otis Wilson was drafted in:Speaker B:r me because Everybody on the:Speaker B:made one Pro bowl, It was in:Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:I'm surprised Casey Hampton did make your top five.
Speaker A:I'm very disappointed.
Speaker A:And he was like linchpin of the Steeler defensive line in the 90s and had some pretty good teams.
Speaker B:But he got, he got back.
Speaker B:He got beat out by my number five.
Speaker A:Did he?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Well, I feel a little bit better, but maybe not too much.
Speaker B:It's the same position, but this guy's better.
Speaker A:Okay, well, I'm, I'm interested to hear.
Speaker B:It if you're ready to share number five.
Speaker B:Number five is a current player.
Speaker B:Like I said, I've wrestled with these a little bit, but he's been around long enough for me to put him here and he could move up this list as his career goes on.
Speaker B:t is Jeffrey Simmons taken in:Speaker B:He's a dominant player.
Speaker B:He's an interior defensive lineman.
Speaker B:He just got his first first team all Pro, but he has been considered a top defensive tackle on bad teams for the most part since his arrival.
Speaker B:His sack numbers are going up.
Speaker B:So this is like.
Speaker B:Unlike Hampton, who was a true nose and didn't really generate much in terms of pass rush, Simmons does.
Speaker B:He's a pocket collapser.
Speaker B:He's also great against the run.
Speaker B:He is on track for big things.
Speaker B:It wasn't the strongest group, so he was able to crack the top five.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I mean, you got to look at the era too, though.
Speaker A:Hampton was.
Speaker A:That was an era where you want to eat blockers up and keep your linebackers free.
Speaker A:But that's our.
Speaker A:Simmons is a good player, so I can't live with that.
Speaker A:So who do you got it for?
Speaker B:4.
Speaker B:We talked a lot about running backs who have short flashes or bursts.
Speaker B:And this is another one.
Speaker B:But his burst was such a burst.
Speaker B:be Sean Alexander, drafted in:Speaker B:He was.
Speaker B:What really sticks out.
Speaker B:ows was he was the NFL MVP in:Speaker B:So I mean, that's obviously, that's a rare, that's a, that's a short list if you're the MVP of the league.
Speaker B:the MVP of the entire NFL in:Speaker B:He scored 27 touchdowns on the ground that year.
Speaker B:Darren.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:And as you remember, that Seahawks team went to the super bowl where they of course lost to the Steelers.
Speaker B:And Casey Hampton, they.
Speaker B:So he, he did, he did his big work on a team that had much success.
Speaker B:And that five year window, that's like, we're talking like five straight, like big time yardage years, big time touchdown years.
Speaker B:A big strong back, not necessarily a game breaker, but he had some big ones too, but just a really, a really terrific running back for a, for a little bit of a window there in Seattle.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was great player.
Speaker A:Definitely worth all the accolades and worth the ranking of three.
Speaker A:So who do you have?
Speaker A:I'm sorry, that was fourth.
Speaker A:You had.
Speaker A:Who do you have at three?
Speaker B:Three is a guy that I think has a really good hall of Fame case that isn't in and we can talk about it.
Speaker B:And that's drafted in:Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:First of all, we, we love this, Darren.
Speaker B:You know, you and I are on the same page here.
Speaker B:He's on the all decade team of the 80s, so that's a big deal.
Speaker B:Four straight all pro teams, Darren, three of them, first team.
Speaker B:So we're talking about a four year window where he was considered more or less the best safety in the NFL or at least second, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I guess that would be Ronnie Lott's time as well.
Speaker B:He, if you remember, he was also a really big John Madden guy.
Speaker B:Madden loved Joey Browner, so he was always talking about Joey Browner.
Speaker B:So he was just a guy that really stood out to me as a, as a, as an NFL fan.
Speaker B:Like, you know, of course, you know all the guys on your teams, but I really knew and respected and liked Browner and kind of elevated that safety position.
Speaker B:And so I'm trying to think what kept him out of the hall of Fame or keeps him out and I guess it would be.
Speaker B:y had nine starts and then in:Speaker B:So at the very end of his career, and so he only played 10 years.
Speaker B:So that's three you kind of cross off.
Speaker B:So I guess he only really had seven years where he was like really in the mix.
Speaker B:But man, those seven years, he was a monster.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely a great player.
Speaker A:I think anybody that watched football back in that era definitely remembers that name and what a stud he was.
Speaker A:So who do you have above him?
Speaker B:No, well, this is, this was tough.
Speaker B:This was tough because my number one and number two are both Canton guys, both easy Canton guys.
Speaker B:And I wrestled with how to rank them, but I landed on number two.
Speaker B:Marvin Harrison, drafted:Speaker B:Of course, numbers.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:When we, when we went over Randy Moss a few pics ago, I talked about how when I went to his, you know, pro football reference page, that it just jumps out like there's just so many numbers, like it's almost looks like a sprint.
Speaker B:It's like crazy.
Speaker B:So Harrison is very similar.
Speaker B:Yeah, four straight.
Speaker B:My fa.
Speaker B:I won't rattle off all the things because we know, but a couple of my favorite things about his career would be four straight years.
Speaker B:in:Speaker B:That is ridiculous.
Speaker B:To catch 143 passes in a season.
Speaker B:That's insane.
Speaker B:So he's number five all time in catches, he's number five all time in touchdowns, and he's number nine all time in yards.
Speaker B:And he played for an iconic offense with Reggie Wayne and Peyton.
Speaker B:Of course, he was on the super bowl team.
Speaker B:So he won The super bowl with the Colts, if you're trying to poke any hole in it at all, which you probably shouldn't, was that he doesn't have a great playoff resume.
Speaker B:He played in 16 playoff games.
Speaker B:He only scored two touchdowns in those 16 games.
Speaker B:And also was kind of well under his averages for catches and yards as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was definitely a targeted man for secondaries to cover.
Speaker A:You know, they wanted to take him away.
Speaker A:So give them the defense some credit too, when you're playing playoff football.
Speaker B:Yep, they ran.
Speaker B:He ran up against Belichick.
Speaker B:Belichick several times too, there in the playoffs.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:All right, so who do you have?
Speaker A:Number one?
Speaker B:iking, and that is drafted in:Speaker B:Randall McDaniel, offensive guard.
Speaker B:This again, we talk about, like, okay, we know he's in the hall of Fame, he's deserving, but where does he rank amongst offensive guards?
Speaker B:I think Randall McDaniel's probably in the convo for best guard ever.
Speaker B:You know, I think that's probably a conversation that people could maybe have.
Speaker B:Nine straight all Pro teams, seven of them first team.
Speaker B:He missed two games in the second season, in his second season, and then never missed another one.
Speaker B:And he played 14 years.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:He ended two years with the Bucks, so 12 with the Vikings, two of the Bucks.
Speaker B:He made the Pro bowl with the Bucks.
Speaker B:Started every game in those two years for the Bucks.
Speaker B:he Bucs won the Super bowl in:Speaker B:His teams made the playoffs 11 times in those 14 years, but they didn't do a lot of winning.
Speaker B:So he never got very far.
Speaker B:Another all 80s guy.
Speaker B:An all 80s team, easy of the.
Speaker B:Of the.
Speaker B:I guess he'd be 90s, not 80s.
Speaker B:Excuse me.
Speaker B:And he had that kind of iconic neck roll.
Speaker B:So he looked like he another Madden guy, but he just looked.
Speaker B:He was on all the all Madden teams all the time, so he just looked like a force.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of times offensive linemen don't stand out, but he looked athletic, he looked big, he looked menacing on the football field.
Speaker B:So I think he really stuck out to everybody.
Speaker B:And he never missed the game.
Speaker B:So if you're watching a Vikings game, he's there.
Speaker B:And they had plenty of good offenses.
Speaker B:Not a lot of great quarterbacks during his career there.
Speaker B:Probably held him back a little bit, but.
Speaker B:And the way I broke the tie between McDaniel and Harrison was I said, all right, if you're going to make the all time receiver list and you're going to make the all time guard list.
Speaker B:I probably have McDaniel a little bit higher on that list than Harrison, but you're splitting hairs.
Speaker A:You got to give love to the big guys in the trench.
Speaker B:Yep, for sure.
Speaker A:I agree with that.
Speaker A:Great, great selection.
Speaker A:I like how you did that.
Speaker A:And other than Casey Hampton not making it, but I understand why.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Well, there's been, you know, five hall of Famers we mentioned earlier.
Speaker A:There's three, you know, you mentioned your one and two picks were both hall of Famers for Vikings.
Speaker A:er at this draft selection in:Speaker A:Now he's maybe not have the numbers of Randall McDaniel, but he had five Pro Bowls, five All Pros, two NFL championships.
Speaker A:So that's a pretty high pedigree there with the Lions.
Speaker A:And a great player for many years for them.
Speaker A:career with your Redskins in:Speaker A:His last three seasons we also had John Mackey, a tight end who was drafted out of Syracuse by the Baltimore Colts.
Speaker A:And Mackey was one of those, you know, original with Mike Ditka.
Speaker A:And some of those guys would be in the tight ends and really put them on the map, not just for blocking anymore, but catching passes.
Speaker A:And he was a, he was a bad man.
Speaker A:You know, he, he hall of Famer, five time Pro Bowler, three times all Pro, one time super bowl champion and also played in the greatest game ever played.
Speaker A:So, you know, that's a pretty, pretty high honors for him.
Speaker A:All:Speaker A:And our final hall of Famer is Roger Worley.
Speaker A:sive back, was drafted in the:Speaker A:Can you believe it or not?
Speaker A:is seven time Pro Bowler all:Speaker A:So some, some great stars there at this number 19 selection, strong list.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:So that takes us that we.
Speaker A:Our most popular position drafted.
Speaker A:If you're wondering maybe, you know, the chances are great that maybe a defensive back will be chosen because 12 times out of the 90 drafts a DB has been taken in this 19 spot.
Speaker A:And our, our draft stat of the day is kind of an interesting one.
Speaker A:This takes us back to the original NFL draft.
Speaker A:The NFL president Joe Carr introduced the unique phantom draft strategy because there was only nine teams in the NFL at that point in time, they were anticipating a tenth team.
Speaker A:So they had a phantom draft spot.
Speaker A:The, you know, they would just have another guy picked and he mandated that 10th player be selected at the end of every round to stock this potential roster.
Speaker A:And do you know who that team ended up being?
Speaker B:What year was it?
Speaker A:1937.
Speaker B:Gosh, I would say the New York Giants.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:They were:Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:This would have been the Cleveland Rams, who came from a rival league and eventually turned into the Los Angeles Rams, St. Louis Rams, and every Rams team in between.
Speaker A:They originally in Cleveland.
Speaker A:They ended up getting those draft picks but did not draft those people.
Speaker A:They've just inherited them from.
Speaker A:So it's kind of an interesting fact that you hear very often.
Speaker A:So I don't think that'll happen this year.
Speaker A:I don't think there'll be a 33rd phantom pick for this.
Speaker B:No, they should look, they should let the Browns do that now.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe somebody else do it for the Browns and like, we'll do it for you.
Speaker A:But why screw up another draft pick if I practice for you and then.
Speaker B:You can hear it the guys later.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Well, that wraps up our show for today.
Speaker A:You know, 19 days to go.
Speaker A:Tomorrow we will join you with the 18th selection spot at history.
Speaker A:And right here, same bat time, same bat channel.
Speaker B:We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker A:That's all the football history we have today, folks.
Speaker A:Join us back tomorrow for more of your football history.
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