Unraveling the 1960 NFL Championship: A Historic Showdown

If you've been following us in this series on the NFL championship games before the super bowl, you'll find out that there are some twists and turns and some unexpected bits of fun facts to face.

All coming up with Scott in just a moment.

This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of American football events throughout history.

Your host, Darren Hayes is podcasting from America's North Shore to bring you the memories of the gridiron one day at a time.

Hello, my football friends.

This is Darren Hees of pigskindispatch.com welcome once again to the Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history.

And welcome to our series on on championships of the National Football League before the Super Bowl.

We're having a great time going through these legends of the game, legendary players, coaches, and teams that won championships that are just as important as the super bowl victories that we know today in the NFL.

And today we have another guest that's a passionate fan and historian of the team that won the championship.

His name is Scott Ferguson Green.

He's a repeated guest here on the Pig Pen.

Scott, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Thank you, Darren.

Thank you for having me.

It's good to be back.

Yeah.

We are so happy that you're able to join us.

And as we were talking about before we came on, in the background, you have some California sunshine coming in your windows there.

So us in the east that are a little bit more frigid, we get to enjoy some of your warmth, not only from your personality, but from your.

Your region's temperatures.

Thank you.

Any.

Any type of sun kiss atmosphere, I'm happy to share.

Well, you are going to be sharing a lot with us tonight because we are counting on you to.

Yes.

And after Steve Van Buren had retired in the early 50s, the Eagles went through some really lean years.

The only one in the over 100 years of NFL championships or championship games.

So that's, that's very unique.

But that goes to show you what happens after some, someone great, a Hall of Famer like Steve Van Buren retired.

So the Eagles during the 50s went through a lot of lean years, which I, I know that we talked.

You and I have talked about Bert Bell before.

That couldn't have been very easy for him to watch the very team that he founded go through so many lean years as NFL commissioner.

Yeah.

And then the other team he was associated had lean years every single year with the Steelers.

But yeah, it's an amazing ride really, with the Eagles done.

And we've discussed this back when we talked about the 48 and 49 series, you know, you talk about World War II, these, the Eagles are merging with the Steelers one year, they're sort of, you know, scraping rock bottom most of the time, or mediocre at best, and then win two championships in a dominating fashion, like you alluded to with the shutout wins.

Yeah, and one of the things that actually helped was the hiring of Buck Shaw as head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, because honestly, under him, he actually turned things around when they finally got Norm Van Brocklin from the Rams.

And I'll tell you a little bit how that happened in just a bit.

So they won the Eastern Conference championship.

And so they were playing the Green Bay packers under second year coach Vince Lombardi.

And what's unique about that is that Vince Lombardi was only known as an assistant.

He was yet to gain the type of fame as a genius head coach that he was to have later in the 60s.

But he was mainly known as good assistant for the New York Giants.

So when he came to the packers, he was specifically hired to turn the packers around.

And the same thing with head coach Buck Shaw.

He was brought in to Turn things around.

And one of the things that Buck Shaw did when the Eagles acquired Norm Van Brocklin, that was to make him basically the quote unquote, head coach on the football field.

And that meant a lot to Norm Van Brocklin.

Norman Brockman had retired from the Los Angeles Rams.

And the only reason that he did so, and this to me is amazing, is because of the fact that he didn't want to play under the system of Sid Gilman.

And so Sid Gilman was, you know, turned out to be a offensive genius.

And his offenses were very unique.

And he didn't have a personality problem with Sid Gilman.

He just didn't want to play under that system.

So Norm, Ben Brockland was going to actually go into business once he retired.

But when he ended up talking to Buck Shaw, Buck Shaw says, I'm going to give you the keys because you are going to be the coach on that field.

And that's what Norman Van Brocklin wanted.

So that really started to turn the Eagles around.

And that really made a difference.

So as champions of the Western Conference, the Packers played the Philadelphia Eagles on for the NFL championship game.

They played it on Monday, Dec.

And they played it on Monday because the NFL wanted to avoid having the championship game played on Christmas Day.

So the Eagle, the Eagles kind of broke that streak that the Giants were having by reaching the NFL championship game.

Some of the key players for the eagles was Chuck McNar, Norm Van Brocklin, like I said, Tommy McDonald, Timmy Brown, Pete Red Sloth.

Some of the key players for the packers were Jim Taylor, Bart Starr, Paul Horning, Max McGee, who was basically the hero of Super Bowl 1 when he came off the bench with a hangover, by the way, to win Super Bowl 1.

Paul Horning and Max McGee started punt, shared the same position as punters.

Max McGee was the punter for the packers and Paul Horning was The actual kicker, so they shared kicking duties.

Some of the facts of the game was that Franken Field didn't have any lights.

So the game had to be moved from 1 o' clock in the afternoon to 12 o' clock noon in case the game went into overtime like it did two years before between the Colts and the New York Giants.

Normally, Franklin Field holds about a little over 67,000, but 67, 325 fans showed up and that only happened because of the fact that they The Eagles added 7,000 seats around the track of Franklin Field.

So coming into the game, the Eagles were third in offense with points scored and seven in defense with points allowed.

The packers came into the game second in offensive points scored and second in defense that was allowed.

So of course the head coach of the packers was the yet to be famed Vince Lombardi.

And of course the co.

As I said before, the coach of the Philadelphia Eagles was Buck Shaw because of the fact that so many people had shown up for the game.

Seems a bit unusual since it was on Monday, which is a work day, but didn't matter.

The one thing that did make a difference was the fact that even though the game was sold out, it was blacked out locally and there were people in the Philadelphia area that would go to New Jersey or New York to watch the game on television because it was actually blacked out in the Philadelphia area.

Some of the facts about some of the players is.

But he ended up playing both ways, both offense and defense.

He played center and he also played linebacker on defense.

Norman Van Brocklin, like I said, had briefly retired, but the fact that he got the opportunity to be the general on the field is one of the reasons why he got to Philadelphia and really enjoyed playing there for three years.

Another player, Tommy McDonald, he was Norman Brockland's favorite receiver.

Tommy was a runner when earlier in his collegiate career.

But when he got to the Eagles, he started off as a receiver, but they moved him or I'm sorry, he started out as a runner, a halfback, and they moved into wide receiver.

He was really tiny, you know, by today's standards he was 5, 9 and weighed 176 pounds.

But somehow he seemed to get open for through defenses he was able to Break through.

And Norm Van Brockin was able to find his favorite target, Bart Star for the Green Bay Packers.

He was in his fifth year out of Alabama and even after five years he was not highly regarded coming into the game.

The halfback Jim Taylor.

He was in his third year out of LSU.

He played fullback and he was the featured runner, which is so unusual today to have a fullback as a featured runner.

But he was the workhorse for the Packers.

Jim Taylor was one half of the backfield of the packers with Paul Horning and together they were nicknamed Thunder and Lightning.

The Eagles coach Buck Shaw was led.

Some of the Packer team players included hall of Famers like I mentioned, Bart Starr, Paul Horning, Jim Taylor, Willie Davis, Jim Ringo, Henry Jordan, Willie Wood, Boris Gregg and Ray Nitschke, which names that we were going to hear a lot by the mid-60s and beyond because the packers had won three NFL championships in a row, including two Super Bowls.

So we'll get into the game.

So the Eagles won the toss and the packers kicked off.

And on the first offensive play of the game, Norman Brocklin, he actually threw a swing pass to halfback Billy Ray Barnes.

But the pass was a little high and it bounced off of Barnes and it was intercepted by the Packers Bill Quinlan on the Eagles 14 yard line.

So that was not a great start for the Philadelphia Eagles.

Not really.

And so the Eagles Vince Lombardi wanted to make sure that the packers had a good running game against the Eagles.

But the Eagles actually stood up to the Eagles rushing attack.

And as a matter of fact, when they actually had a fourth and two, the packers went for it and the Eagles defense held and the packers turned the, the ball, turned the ball down on, turned it over on downs.

Well, that.

So that's, that's amazing.

I mean, sit there and think about that for a second.

You start off a game, have something really bad happen.

Like an interception.

Team has a ball on a 14 yard line and you hold them scoreless.

That's got to be a humongous boost after some deep depression and some anxiety in the beginning of the game.

Yes.

And again the defense, you know, really shored up.

And the two players that actually had the most tackles during the game were Chuck McNarck and Chuck Weber, another linebacker for the Eagles.

I actually watched this, this game on film and they were everywhere.

They, they, they plugged up those holes.

So now you have the Eagles.

They got the ball back because the packers gave it up on downs and the Eagles started.

Okay, we're going to have a rushing tack of our own.

Well, Norm Van Brocklin handed the ball off to Ted Dean and Ted Dean fumbled the ball.

He recovered, it was recovered on, on the Packers 22 yard line.

So they got the ball back and then they turned the ball over by fumbling again.

So the packers again had an opportunity to start their field position inside the packers near the packers red zone.

I'm sorry, the Eagles red zone.

So that resulted in a field goal by Paul Horning.

So The packers led 3 to nothing after Paul Horning kicked a second field goal from 23 yards.

And this was at the beginning of the second quarter to give the Packers a 6 to nothing lead.

The Eagles decided that they were going to drive by throwing key passes that, that's what Norman Brockland kind of wanted and was able to do was to throw key passes.

And he threw a key pass to Tommy McDonald for 22 yards and then he threw a, another one for 35 yards which included that touchdown pass.

And that gave the Eagles a 7 to 6 lead.

But after the Eagles got the ball back, they marched down again against the packers and added a field goal by Eagles kicker Bobby Walston.

The team had a 10 to 6 lead.

The packers again got the ball and this was late in the second quarter and they drove down the field and they got to the Eagles seven yard line.

But the packers drive was stalled and the Packers Paul horning attempted a 13 yard field goal which he missed as it sailed wide left.

Can you imagine a 13 yard field goal and he missed it.

Yeah, that miss was very key and critical to what happened toward the end of the game.

Because it was that wide left kick that was, could have been the difference in the game.

So these goal posts are a lot closer to the kickers.

And so 13 yard field goal, you know, from inside the 20 is not uncommon back then.

Thank you for mentioning that.

Yeah, because that, that, yes, it was that close, you know, so when you talk about you couldn't really kick a 13 yard field goal today, it would be probably 23 yards with the goal post on the, the back of the end zone.

Right.

So they, they, the teams came out of the half and in the third quarter the packers started their drive and they advanced to Philadelphia's 34 yard line.

Bart Starr had handed the ball off to Paul Horning and he got tackled by Chuck McNarck with help from Chuck Weber, as I mentioned before, his name, it knocked Horning out of the game for a bit.

On the next play, Bart Starr handed the ball off to Jim Taylor and he failed to pick up the first down and the packers once again had to turn the ball over on downs.

That is amazing that several times now the Eagles have stopped them when the packers were going for the first down and it made a difference in the game.

Now the Eagles promptly marched down deep into the packers territory and the Eagles were inside the 10, inside the 10.

Van Brocklin rolled to his right and he was looking for Tommy McDonald in the end zone and he threw an interception in the end zone.

In the arms are Packers Jim Simon.

The touchdown gave the packers the touchback, gave the packers the ball on their own 20 yard line.

And from there in punt formation.

After going basically three and out, Max McGee decided to run the football instead of punting it.

And he ran enough to get the first down and Vince Lombardi was littered because that was totally unexpected even to the packers.

But Max McGee, who, you know, for those that don't know, Max McGee was his own independent spirit.

He was always partying, he was always breaking curfew.

And even though he loved Vince Lombardi, they had a few run ins.

And that was one thing that Vince Lombardi did not appreciate was the fact on fourth down inside the packers territory, Max McGee decided that he was going to run and try and get the first down.

When it was a Long way.

He managed to do it, but Vince Lombardi was not happy about that.

But going into the fourth quarter on the same drive, the packers marched down to the field and and took the lead with a seven yard touchdown pass from Max McGee to Max McGee from Bart Star, which gave the Packers a 13 to 10 lead with about 13 minutes left in the game.

The Eagles then received the kickoff and got an excellent return and they were able to score a touchdown.

When the Eagles Ted Dean ran into the end zone on a five yard sweep.

Running to the end zone.

With a little over five minutes left in the game, the packers took over.

Now they started their next drive on a short pass from Bart star to Max McGee, but unfortunately Max McGee had fumbled the ball just a little bit past midfield.

And so the Eagles recovered, but neither team could get very far as they traded punts.

So when the packers got the ball back, and this is in the fourth quarter now, there was only 1 minute and 5 seconds left.

The packers started down the field and they got to the Eagles 22 yard line with the clock still running.

Star got the offense set and quickly snapped the ball and threw a short pass to Jim Taylor who caught it at the Eagles 14 yard line.

The only thing between Jim Taylor and the end zone was concrete Charlie Chuck Bernard.

Bernard wrapped him up and tackled him.

Taylor was trying to get up because the clock was still running and Bernard sat on him until the time ran out and the Eagles end up winning the game 17 to 13.

The Eagles won despite the fact that they were out gained, on the ground and in the air.

401 yards to the Eagles.

296 yards with only 13 first downs for the Eagles compared to 22 first downs for the Packers.

It was only the career playoff loss that Vince Lombardi ever had.

He was 9 and 1 in playoff games and the only one he lost was against the Philadelphia Eagles.

Norm Ben Brocklin was named the game's MVP and he retired right after the game.

And before you could blink your eyes, he was named the head coach of the expansion Minnesota Vikings the very next year.

I was talking to my dad and he became friends with one of the Eagles that played in that game, defensive end Riley Gunnels.

He was number 71.

And my dad later on in the 80s and early 90s did business with Riley Gunnels and actually became one of his friends.

And there was a few players that played in that game that had some notoriety.

If you will Max McGee.

Like I said, I previously mentioned, he became the hero of Super Bowl 1.

Marion Campbell, who played for the Eagles, he became an NFL head coach.

Norman Van Brocklin became an NFL head coach.

Tibby Brown, who received the some of the kickoffs.

He ended up playing a character on the TV show MASH in the very first year.

Ed Kayak also was a player for the Eagles and he ended up being a head coach for the Eagles in the early 70s.

So there were a lot of people who played in this game that made names for themselves later on in their career.

But can you imagine having a drought of an NFL championship for 58 years?

Yeah, that's amazing.

But I'm sure that the people in Detroit and Cleveland could probably sympathize with that their plate.

You know, I think it's a good point because this is sort of the.

Not only, you know, Norm Van Brocklin as a player retiring right after the game like you talked about, but he sort of disappears.

We've, we've talked a lot about him in this championship series, you know, going all the way back to the late 40s when you know, the Rams moved to LA.

They draft him as the 2 quarterback system with Bob Waterfield.

50 they're in the championship and lose 51, they win.

You know, setting records.

You know, he's, he's an old man at that time.

He's in his 30s playing the game at this time of a young man's game.

That's the AFC.

All the AFLs in the NFL combined.

He51 Rams are still higher.

Even the modern day Chiefs and Tom Brady's Patriots and Peyton Manning's corporation Colts and Broncos teams still outscored them points per game, which is an amazing feat for the Dutchman.

And we really.

I've actually had a lot of correspondence with his daughter Karen Vanderwegh, who wrote a book about her father a few years ago.

We talked to her and we've kept in touch ever since.

And every time something about her dad comes up, we talk about him.

And she remembers not so much the LA days because she was a little bit young when they.

When that was happening.

But she remembers living in Philadelphia.

She remembers living in Minnesota, the coaching staff, and I think they went down to Atlanta later on.

He was a coach there.

But Norman Van Brocklin, a true gentleman of the sport and a true athlete, that really made a difference for the teams he played on.

Absolutely.

You know that one of the things that was mentioned in the broadcast, Jack Whitaker was the Eagles play by play man, but they allowed him and he was hired to do the play by play on radio.

And Jack Whitaker mentioned how the.

The packers were having a hard time stopping Norm Van Brocklin's passes because they were so accurate.

And so they had such precision to them.

When you get someone like Tommy McDonald or Pete Red Slap being able to cut through the defenses, Norman Brocklin hit them right on the dime.

For a long time.

So the.

It was such a rarity during most of the 60s that the Eagles weren't playing the Packers.

They only played them one time since the 60 championship that I remember the buzz.

Everybody was talking about it.

The buzz to open a 68 season between the Eagles and the Packers.

Yeah.

That had to be historic times.

And making you go back, that's unbelievable.

They didn't play each other with a smaller NFL because the AFL is involved with them yet.

So there's what, 14 teams in the NFL and they don't play each other for six years.

Wow.

That's amazing all to itself.

And I looked it up because I didn't believe it myself, you know, but I'm thinking, why is this such a.

In when I was a little kid, when in 68, why is this.

Everybody's talking about this.

Why is this such a big deal?

And I actually looked it up, and the only time that they played the packers before that was in 62.

And I looked up every game and no, they did not play the packers, you know, in most of those years.

That's very unique.

Must have had something to do with travel because, you know, well, let's see.

Pete Roselle would have been in charge by then because Burt Bell would have passed.

And Burt Bell was one.

He loved to have those big games in the beginning of the season, almost like the NFL does today.

Yeah.

And there, there were some characters that, that came out of that 60 championship game, you know, one of them being Tommy McDonald.

When my dad was.

Was doing business with his friend Riley Gunnels, he actually met Tommy McDonald in Gunnell's place of business.

And he, He.

My dad said that Tommy McDonald is quite a character, you know, and I know in the Philadelphia area, the Fame hall of Famer, newspaper writer and columnist Ray Dittinger, he now has written and every year, the play Tommy and Me, which is about his relationship with Tommy McDonald, that actually is shown in different areas each year.

It's a great play.

I, I actually saw it in Delaware when I, I flew from California to Philadelphia and then went to Delaware to see that play.

It.

It's.

You would get a kick out of the, the personality of Tommy McDonald, because the play Tommy and Me sure shows what Tommy McDonald was like in, in his playing years.

Yeah, very interesting.

I'll have to catch that if I ever get a chance to.

It sounds very interesting.

Well, Scott, you did an excellent job of not only recapping the championship game, but really filling us in on what the players were like and the coaching staffs of both teams, because these are really historic teams with some great hall of Famers and legends of the game.

Even some of the guys that didn't make aren't currently in the hall of Fame, still just legends of the game and stalwarts of their era and, you know, still talking about them today, which is an amazing thing.

So preserving that history of this game and those teams is amazing.

So you did a great job.

Thank you very much.

I have such a passion for the Philadelphia Eagles.

Football is like a religion in Pennsylvania.

You know that, because you're a fellow Pennsylvanian and you know what it's like, you know, between, you know, the Steelers country and Eagles country, there's just passion there all the time.

Yeah, it definitely is.

So, Scott, I want to thank you again for joining us here.

And you know, I think it was with your fourth or fifth time being in a pig fan, maybe more than that, you I sort of lost count.

I have to give you a time card here.

You're on so much.

But really appreciate you coming on here and sharing and preserving the football history.

Thank you, Darren.

Thank you for having me.

It was just wonderful to be able to talk about the team in my youth and the team of my passion, the Philadelphia Eagles.

That's all the football history we have today, folks.

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