Football History

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The tipped pass is an exciting play that we see often in the pass-happy offenses of modern times and the athletes on both sides of the ball downfield. The rules we know today concerning the play were very much different than they are today. The video covers the early history of tipped pass rules in American football.

Darin Hayes, is interviewing Timothy Brown from Football Archaeology. Besides the video we have the audio on our podcast too. Brown discusses a time in football history, from 1907 to 1911, when a tipped pass was considered a fumble. This means that if a pass was tipped by a player from either team, the ball was live and could be recovered by either team. This rule was implemented to increase player safety, as the forward pass was a new and dangerous play at the time. However, the rule was eventually changed because it led to too many scrambles for the ball, which could be dangerous for the players.

The video also discusses other interesting facts about the early days of the forward pass, such as how teams would sometimes try to create a circle of players around the receiver to protect him from being tackled.

Modern rules concerning a tipped pass go along these lines. A pass tipped by a defender can be caught by anyone on the field, including a previously ineligible offensive player. Only an eligible offensive player or any defender can legally bring a tipped pass by the offense.


-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown on When Tipped Passes Were Live Balls[b]

Hello, my football friends; this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome again to The Pig Pen, your portal for positive football history. It is Tuesday, and we have another special treat: Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com will join us to discuss one of his most recent tidbits. And this one is recent and fresh.

Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen. Hey, thank you, Darin. Yeah, this is a good one.

This is kind of one of the more bizarre rules or one that most people had no idea was out there because, you know, I just recently came across it. So, yeah, when I read it, I had no idea. You enlightened me.

And I thought I knew, you know, a lot about especially the rules and things like that, but this one caught me off guard. And you've titled it when tip passes were live balls as a little bit of a mystery, but also, you know, sells a point and just sounds odd to our modern year for football. So why don't you explain this to us a little bit? Yeah, so, as I tried to explain in the article itself, you know, with the forward pass, which had been around for a long time.

You know, it just was illegal. You know, if you threw a forward pass and what we would think of as forward lateral, you know, now, but if you did that, you lost possession of the ball. And then, in trying to, you know, open the game following the 1905 season, the rule makers made just a host of different changes to the game.

But one of them was a legalized forward pass. And, you know, the rule book for six only laid out six or seven rules related to the passing game. You know, they just couldn't see what this might become in the future.

And for them, they were thinking of forward laterals, this short little right in the area, kinds of, you know, not not the down downfield passing, which, you know, a couple of teams actually did in 1906. So they had just a really simple set of rules. But, you know, they were and mostly, you know, the game.

They risked the forward pass a lot. You know, if you threw an incomplete pass, it was a turnover and a spot foul. So it returned to the spot of the pass.

If the pass hit an ineligible receiver turnover, if the pass crossed the goal line on the fly, or if it bounced turnover. So, you know, things like that. And then you couldn't throw the ball until you were five yards to the left or the right of the center.

You know, so it was consistent with the checkerboard pattern field. And, you know, the first person to get the ball couldn't run until they were five yards left or right. So so anyways, you know, it just there were a lot of things, restrictions that just are inconceivable today.

But then, you know, they kind of went through a season and they decided to add a few rules. And one of them that they added in 1907 was that if the ball was in the air and touched an an eligible receiver, so an eligible offensive person or defense, then the ball and it it then hit the ground. That ball was locked.

So basically any kind of batted ball by a defender, but, you know, a tipped ball, a dropped ball, you know, from an offensive player, was essentially a fumble. And so, you know, there'd be a pass and somebody would tip, you know, try for it. They wouldn't get it, but they'd touch the ball.

So then, you know, the balls are rolling on, you know, like any kind of situation where there's a fumble, it's a mad scramble to get to the thing. And since the pass was probably a little bit more in the open field because it had to be five yards right or left, you know, all that kind of stuff. There were guys flying in all over the place, trying to get to that ball.

So so it's just one of the it's one of those rules. It just it seems so bizarre that they that they did that. And yet, you know, it was.

So the 1907 season, you know, it's always, you know, if you read through, you know, some of the commentaries, you'll just're reading like an old newspaper report of a game and saying, you know, the ball bounced off of Smith, and there was a mad scramble for the ball. And, you know, Pittsfield State recovered or, you know, whatever. And so then, you know, again, the whole rule of the game rule changes were supposed to be for player safety, and they recognized that there were too many scrambles.

So they made a change for 1908 where they said only the first offensive player that touches the ball. Can you recover it, right? So if you think about it, you know, the football rule that only you know, like if an offensive player touches the ball or touches a forward pass, then it has to have a defensive player touch that pass before an offense can then before a second offensive player can grab it. However, that originated in the 1908 rule, which was trying to eliminate some of the scrambles.

So and then, you know, so it remained in place until 1911, and then they then they cut the rule out. But so you had, you know, so you had seven, eight, nine. So you had a four year period where.

The tip ball was a fumble, you know, effectively. And the other thing that's just funny about that is, you know, talking about teams being unable to really conceive how to throw the pass and how, you know, how do you create a pass route if you've never seen anyone throw a forward pass before? And one of the things that teams did fairly frequently back then until, I think, it was maybe 32. The offensive lineman could go downfield on a pass.

One of the approaches that the teams took was to you'd send all your offensive linemen to the left or something. And then whoever the receiver was, you know, maybe an end, would get in the middle of those offensive linemen. They kind of form a circle around them.

And then they try to pass the ball to, you know, to the middle while the offensive line blocked. The difference is trying to get at him because, again, there was no pass interference yet. So it is probably while the quarterbacks get mauled by like five guys that aren't getting blocked because they often lose the line.

I mean, yeah. So it's just crazy when you think about, you know, what that had to be. You know, plus, you know, again, most guys weren't wearing numbers.

If they had numbers, it was only on the back of their jerseys. But even like Carlisle, as far as I can tell, Carlisle was the first school to paint their helmets. And they did it because they wanted to be able to identify who their players were, you know, in, you know, as they ran downfield, you know, for passes.

That old Glenn Warner was a clever guy. Well, he wasn't there yet. He wasn't.

He was OK. Yeah, he went back and forth between Cornell. You know, he started Cornell, went to Carlisle, and went back to Cornell.

And then he was back at Cornell or Carlisle in 07, but no six. One of the former players, you know, the coach. But they.

They had, well, one of the other things that teams did was like when they circle the guy, some lift them up in the air, like in a, you know, the rugby lineouts, you know, when they're tossing the ball in. And, you know, which was just a few years before, had still been away. One of the ways that football teams brought the ball in from the sideline, you know, from out of bounds, was the law.

Or they call it a fair as well. Anyways, they'd lift the guy up in the air and throw him the ball. But so it's just one of those things that just, again, made sense at the time, maybe, you know, I mean, they were just trying to make some up some things, you know.

But the idea of a tipped pass being effectively a fumble is just kind of bizarre. Yeah, you know, maybe four or five years ago, if you would have said that with the guy in the circle and everybody else, you know, helping him with the before the tush push and brotherly shove or whatever you call it, maybe we would have said, oh, you're out of your mind. That wouldn't happen.

But maybe it's a little bit more the normal activity we see in football these days, which I hope they get rid of because I hate it. But go back to the rule. I'm OK with it.

I'm OK. You don't like the tush pusher. No, I like when they used to have the rule, you know, you can't aid the runner.

You know, that's. Yeah, yeah. Let him know you can block guys in front of you.

You can't pull, push or otherwise move that runner, help them go. I I still I'm a traditionalist. I think that should be the maybe it's not so traditionalist.

Maybe they were helping the runner long before that rule, as you're saying. But yeah, the football I grew up with, you couldn't do it. Yeah, no, exactly.

I mean, it it it went away, you know. Quite a while ago, but I mean, it was part of the original game and then they then they got rid of it really as a player safety issue. I blame it.

I blame it on Matt Leinert and Reggie Bush against Notre Dame in 2005 or whenever it was. That's because they're like the next year that they changed. Right.

Right. Plus, they beat Notre Dame on that play. Yeah.

Well, well. But, you know, back in the day, they. You know what? At the time that they instituted, you know when they.

Said you couldn't aid the runner. Part of it was, you know, you only had three officials on the field. And so that call, you know, officials were reluctant to make the call.

Right. And so anyways, that's part of it. I'm kind of getting a little bit confused now, but anyway, so, you know, it was one of those things where the trying to force the officials to make the calls that that's actually one of the justifications for why they brought it back, because people, you know, nobody wants to make that call.

But yeah, that's true. That's true. But it's getting crazy.

Somebody's going to get hurt. That's my theory. And that's when the rule all of a sudden change and be banned again.

But I don't want somebody to get hurt. You know, it could be offense, defense, alignment, whatever. But somebody's going to get hurt.

But, Tim, you know, we love how you bring up some of these, you know, oddities of football and things, unique aspects or something maybe a team did, you know, a hundred years ago that we never heard of before. And including this rule here, you know, that's just part of football. And it's a great history.

And you do things like this each and every day that you write about and explain very thoroughly, and a lot of times with images that you find in old yearbooks and newspapers. And how can people share in these tidbits that you put on to see them as they're coming out? Real simple. Just go to footballarchaeology.com and subscribe.

Then you'll get an email. Alternatively, you can follow me on Twitter. You can also get the Substack app on threads or through the Substack app because, you know, my blog newsletter is on Substack, and you can follow me on Substack as well.

So, whatever floats your boat. All right. Well, his name is Timothy Brown.

Footballarchaeology.com is his website. And Tim, we appreciate you coming here this Tuesday. And we hope to talk to you again next Tuesday about some more great football.

Very good. Thank you, sir.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

Syracuse Orange Logo PNG The 20 varsity teams comprising the athletic program of Syracuse University in Syracuse, New York, belong to NCAA Division I and the Atlantic Coast Conference. Meaning and history Syracuse Orange is a collegiate athletic program from Syracuse University, a private educational institution in New York, the United States. The university was — 1000logos.net

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The Syracuse Orange football program boasts a vibrant history, and its logos have evolved alongside its triumphs and challenges. Here's a journey through time, tracing the changing face of the Syracuse Orange:


[b]Early Days (1890s-1940s):

-The program initially adopted a script "Syracuse" logo with orange and white lettering, reflecting the university's colors.

-Later variations incorporated simpler designs, including a block "S" and a bold orange block letter "U."

-These early logos lacked the mascot imagery that would later define the program's identity.


The Birth of Otto (1940s-1980s):

-In 1946, the iconic orange block "SU" logo with a white outline emerged, marking a significant shift.

-This design, nicknamed "The Block Syracuse," became the program's primary logo for decades.

-The 1980s saw the introduction of Otto the Orange, a playful cartoon mascot, but he initially played a secondary role behind the "Block Syracuse" logo.


Modern Evolution and a Bold New Brand (1980s-Present):

-The late 1980s witnessed the rise of Otto, gradually taking center stage. A more spirited and athletic version of the mascot replaced the cartoonish design.

-In 2006, a major rebranding introduced a sleek, stylized "S" logo, incorporating an orange silhouette of Otto within the letter.

-This modern "Interlocking SU" logo remains the program's primary mark, representing a balance between tradition and dynamism.

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From humble beginnings to modern iterations, the South Carolina Gamecocks football logo reflects a journey of grit, evolution, and unwavering spirit. It's a symbol not just of athletic prowess, but of a passionate fan base and a rich university tradition.

The story begins in 1900, when local newspaper "The State" first referred to the football team as "Gamecocks," inspired by the fighting spirit of General Thomas Sumter.
South Carolina's spirited mascot isn't just a feathery fighter; it's a living tribute to Revolutionary War legend Thomas Sumter. Nicknamed the "Carolina Gamecock" for his unwavering courage and relentless guerilla tactics, Sumter embodies the fierce spirit that fuels the Gamecocks' athletic teams. His legacy permeates the university campus, not just in the cheers of fans but also in the aptly named Thomas Sumter Street that runs alongside the iconic Horseshoe.

Early iterations were simple: a single rooster perched atop a football, rendered in black and white. But like the team itself, the logo craved flight.

In 1961, the first true symbol of a running rooster emerged, wings spread and ready to attack. This "Charging Gamecock" stayed relatively unchanged for a decade, a testament to its timelessness and power. In 1975, the iconic "Spurs Up Gamecock" strutted onto the scene, sporting sharp talons and a raised head, exuding confidence and dominance. This iteration resonated deeply with fans, becoming synonymous with the Gamecocks' fighting spirit.

The 2008 redesign saw a sleeker, stylized rooster, shedding some detail while retaining its essence. This update reflected the program's modernization while honoring its heritage. Today, the "Gamecock Grit" logo, introduced in 2018, stands as the latest expression of the team's identity. It features a fierce, battle-hardened rooster, feathers ruffled and spurs pointed, embodying the resilience and tenacity that define the Gamecocks' spirit.

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The Arkansas Razorbacks football logo, like the team itself, has weathered decades of change and adaptation, reflecting both the evolution of the program and the unwavering spirit of Hog Nation. Here's a quick journey through its key chapters:


Early Days (1931-1937):

-The inaugural Razorback logo debuted in 1931, featuring a red hog running to the right with bold black details.

-This fierce-looking design, reminiscent of a cartoon character, embodied the program's aggressive spirit.


Evolution and Refinement (1938-1966):

-The hog underwent gradual tweaks over the years, becoming stronger and more aerodynamic in the 1940s, with white replacing some black accents.

-This period saw a shift towards a more streamlined visual identity.


The Cardinal Hog Era (1967-Present):

-In 1967, the iconic cardinal red hog we know today arrived. This sleek and modern design, with smooth lines and sharp highlights, became synonymous with the Razorbacks.

-While minor adjustments have been made, like tweaking the red shade and refining details, the core design has remained remarkably consistent.

The evolution of Brown University's football helmet design mirrors the broader trajectory of helmet safety and aesthetic changes in the sport. Early Brown helmets likely resembled leather caps with minimal protection. As the game grew more physical, so too did the helmets. The introduction of harder materials and innovative padding marked a significant leap in player safety.

Modern Brown helmets typically feature the team's brown and white colors. The classic brown shell with white stripes or a simple brown helmet has been a staple for the Bears. However, the team has also experimented with alternate designs and color schemes for specific games or seasons, adding a contemporary touch to the traditional look. Consistent with industry standards, Brown helmets incorporate advanced technologies to enhance protection against head injuries, a testament to the sport's commitment to player safety.

Blaise over at the Helmet History website shares his research on the history of the helmet styles, logos, and designs of the Brown Bears.

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Hey there, NFL fans! We've got something special for you. It's a trivia quiz that will only take half a minute of your day, but it's packed with fun and will test your football knowledge. Are you up for it?

A trivia quiz question on a freak NFL circumstance that will make your mouth drop! We will take you to some of the top performances of one-game records in receiving and throw a curve ball of a question to challenge your football minds.

Take a trip down memory lane with our trivia question. It's a quick, fun way to revisit football history and relive the record moments of the game.

Football historian, author, and founder of the Football Learning Academy LLC, Ken Crippen is definitely a great resource of knowledge on the gridiron game.

Mr. Crippen is the former executive director of the Professional Football Researchers Association and has been researching and writing about pro football history for decades!

You can enjoy his football knowledge on the Football Learning Academy website and the Sports History Network by the same name hosted by Ken.

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The video covers an interview with Ken Crippen, the founder of the Football Learning Academy, an online school teaching pro football history. The academy aims to provide historical context to today's game by educating about the origins, players, and early days of football. It also serves as a platform to raise funds and support retired players in need, especially older players struggling with medical bills.

Crippen discusses the academy's classes, featuring interviews with legendary figures like coaches, broadcasters, executives, and players from different eras. He highlights a recent class on historical scouting reports, where he and a colleague analyze film and grade players, focusing on older candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The class includes biographies, honors, statistics, and interviews with players discussing position-specific skills across different eras. Crippen emphasizes the importance of preserving firsthand accounts and providing information to aid the Hall of Fame's senior selection committee.

Ken and his team just launched a new class at the Football Learning Academy: Historical Scouting Reports. This class has:

-Video interviews with players talking about how to play their positions during their eras

-Historical scouting reports of players going back to the 1920s

-Profiles of potential contributors for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

-Transcript of Chat with KenCrippen FLA Historical Data

Darin Hayes
Hello, my football friends. This is Darren Hayes at pigskin -dispatch .com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your report of our positive football history. And welcome to another great edition where we get to visit with one of our friends, a football historian, the leader and founder of the Football Learning Academy, Ken Crippen. Ken, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Ken Crippen
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Darin Hayes
Ken, you have a lot of things going on at the Football Learning Academy. We really haven't touched base with you in probably probably almost a year now. And I know you have so many exciting things going on. And you have one thing in particular you want to talk about today. But won't you give us a general overview of what the Football Learning Academy is and some of the happenings you got going?

Ken Crippen
All right. The Football Learning Academy is an online school teaching pro football history. And what we're trying to do is to put today's game into historical context by teaching about where the game came from, the people who played the game, especially in the earlier days. And then second to that is that we have a platform to be able to help retired players in need. So, you know, we know that players are struggling to pay their medical bills, especially the older players. They're not making the millions of dollars like a lot of players are today. So I want to be able to use this platform to raise money to be able to help those players. So portion of all the proceeds generated at the football learning academy go to help those retired players that need it the most.

Darin Hayes
Uh, that is definitely a worthy cause. And, uh, we were so great, glad grateful that you were doing that. And I'm sure the players themselves that are receiving the benefits of it are as well, and it seems like you have some great participation because you have so many former players and former, uh, people that were involved in pro football, uh, aiding you and coming in and doing classes and, uh, being guests, uh, on both the, your, your lessons and on your podcast that, uh, it seems very beneficial all the way around.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I mean, if you take a look at some of the classes, I mean, we've got an interview with coach Don Shula that I did, uh, obviously prior to his passing, um, Ken Riley, same thing. Uh, we have an interview with him, uh, legendary broadcaster, Leslie Visser. Uh, we've got classes with exclusive interviews with Marlon Brisco and Dan Rooney. Uh, you move over to the podcast, several hall of famers, John Hannah, you've got Brian Erlocker, Ron mix was released this week. Uh, you've got other well -known people, Michael Lombardi, former NFL scout and executive, um, Amy Trask, former NFL CEO, head coach Mark Trestman, uh, offensive lineman, Richard, uh, Richmond web. Uh, and then coming up, we've got an episode with ESPN's Chris Berman. So there's a lot of, uh, a lot of fascinating stuff there.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. You got the whole gambit there. You've got the, the TV talking head celebrities like Berman and, and Visser and you're going to, you know, coach Shula and John Hannah and Dan Rooney, you know, some of the executives and Michael Lombardi, that is really a well -rounded thing with all the players and coaches and a broadcaster. So very well done. And if you can't get some great insight from those folks, I don't know who you can. So great job. A lot of knowledge there. Yeah. Most definitely. But you approached me here not too long ago and you have something really exciting going on, some new classes that you have going on that you wanted to talk about today. So why don't you fill us in on that.

Ken Crippen
All right. The most recent class that we released is on historical pro football, scattering reports. So a colleague of mine, Matt Rieser and I, we went back and we studied film. This is something we started years ago. And what we would do is grade some of these players in each game and then all, you know, giving them an overall grade. So what we wanted to do is focus on some of the older players, especially ones where their names were coming up for the pro football hall of fame and the seniors. Pool. We had Mick Tinglehoff, Dick Barwegan, um, a bunch of other people. So there was a lot there that, um, we really wanted to be able to let people know about these players. A lot of people have never seen them play. Um, so anything that we can do to try to help people. And again, you know, back to our mission of educating people, we wanted to be able to do that, but then also have a resource for the senior selection committee to be able to see this information. I mean, a lot of them don't have the time to go through and, and study the film and things like that. So we're doing that work for them. So, uh, since, you know, we had some of those original scouting reports come out. I've gone through, I've added biographies, uh, the honors that they've had testimonial statistics. Um, but another thing that's interesting that I've adding, uh, been adding to this class is that I am interviewing a lot of these players and talking about the skills necessary to play their position within their particular era. So for example, Ron mix, as I'd mentioned before, Hall of Famer, he's talking about offensive line play, I've got another guy on there, Greg Thomas. He was the first African American starting quarterback for the university of Arkansas, he's talking about quarterback play. And I'm going to continue to add more scattering reports, add more videos, things like that on these particular players and how to play these positions, especially talking to players in different eras. So if you got somebody playing into fifties, somebody in the sixties, somebody in the seventies, et cetera. Now you can see how things evolved for that particular position by talking to the players that actually played that position. So it's a pretty interesting class. And, uh, I think a lot of people will be able to get something out of it.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, that's brilliant going to the different areas because it's almost, uh, if you look at games, like in the forties and fifties, they're a much different game. You know, the basics are there for football, but the way it's played in the strategies and blocking schemes and everything else are so much different than, uh, they are today and even, even in the seventies today. So that's great to get the perspective of the guys that were actually in the trenches and, and taking the hits to give that perspective. So you're very interesting.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that, you know, there's a lot that can be learned from that, especially when you're getting the firsthand accounts, because not only are you talking about the schemes, but we also go into players, you know, when I was talking with Ron mix, I was talking about playing against Deacon Jones, I mean, one of the greatest of all time. So you talk about, you know, the different techniques, the people that they struggled against, the people that they were successful against, why they were successful against them, why they struggled against them. There's a lot that you can pull out of that. And so being able to record these firsthand accounts, I think is definitely going to be beneficial, especially as we continue to progress in time.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, especially, you know, unfortunately, we're losing so many of these legends of the game seems like on a daily basis, you know, seems like every day you pick up the paper, you look on the Internet, you lose another star. So preserving the legacy of these folks and getting them recorded, even them talking about some other players that they played against or played with, like you said, is a very valuable resource. So very well done on that. Appreciate it. Yeah. Now, you can you said a little bit the you're providing information with the information that you're putting on this new project you got going on for the Senior Selection Committee. Now, on on average, what's the Hall of Fame? How many of the seniors are they trying to get in each year? Is there a certain numbers that sort of hit or miss?

Ken Crippen
It's been changing right now. You could have a maximum of three, but that's only been in place for a couple of years now. I think that expires maybe next year where they evaluate and see if they're going to still try to have a maximum of three every year or whether it's going to be going backwards or maybe it goes only two or one per year. So as of right now, it's three.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. Cause it seems like there's a tremendous amount, especially the early players, the first, uh, 20, 30 years of the NFL that probably are deserving to be in there, uh, but didn't really have the opportunity because the NFL or the pro football hall of fam, sorry, didn't start until the early 1960s. So some of these guys were long forgotten. Uh, and now with the resurgence of their information because of the internet, uh, football learning academy, PFRA and, and others, you know, and all the books that are coming out now, we have a lot more information, probably a better view of these folks now, uh, some 60 years later than they did in the early 60s. So I think it's invaluable that I'm glad that they're trying to put some more in, and I know they had sort of a bigger number, a hundredth anniversary, uh, of, uh, the NFL and then 2020, uh, but I, I know it's sort of dwindled down from, so, so three is sort of the targets still.

Ken Crippen
As of right now, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, they're don't see, it doesn't seem to be much interest in the older players. It's more of the more recent players within the senior pool that they're focusing on. So we may have trouble getting in some of those deserving people from the earlier days. It really comes down to the selection committee. If they're showing no interest in doing that, then you're not going to get any of those players in. Thanks for watching!

Darin Hayes
Now the selection committee, as far as I know, the folks that are in are mostly journalists. Is that true? Or is there still some executives? I think there

Ken Crippen
There are still a few executives, there may be a few former players, but that's on the overall committee itself. The actual seniors committee, I think is pretty much made up of strictly media members. So whether they're journalists, whether they're TV, whatever, it's mainly going to be journalists. And if you look at the overall committee, the bulk of them are going to be journalists.

Darin Hayes
And probably just human nature, the people that they know the most about are the people that they saw play, just like you or I or any of the listeners or viewers would say, you know, you know, you saw, you know, players, you know, like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady play, but that was some outstanding play by this player. So very difficult journey for these guys, especially in early football.

Ken Crippen
But I think, you know, you can also look at it too is that, you know, the media members of today saying we're the most qualified to be able to determine who's in the hall of fame, who was the best because we watched them play. But yet you bring up the media members of the day who watched those players and the hall of famers that have testimonials for those players and things like that. Why aren't they listening to them? I mean, wouldn't their opinions be just as valid. So if you've got somebody that is consistently making all pros who's consistently getting honors who's consistently. You get testimonials saying that they're the best player that they played against and these are hall of famers that are saying this to me you should be listening to that and not just saying well you know I know more because I saw these most recent players play. Listen to what the media members of the day said about those players, because if the media is the one that is the best judge of who's a Hall of Famer and who isn't. How about we listen to those media members.

Darin Hayes
Great, great point, but it's hard to have a voice for those folks that aren't around anymore, but we, but we have their word in print and it's, uh, I guess it's a tough methodology for folks like us as frustrating for us historians to sit there and say, where we don't really don't have a voice into it in the media does. So I understand the frustration, uh, but I also understand the dilemma that the NFL and the hall of fame, uh, sort of have on their plate there. So hopefully we can come to some, uh, resolution to, to help them out here and doing things like you're doing with these, uh, having these, uh, guides for them to look at is definitely a great step.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I think so. It's just any information that we can get out there about these players is only going to be beneficial. So, you know, we shouldn't be relying on, you know, whose kid puts together the best PR campaign for their, their parent. I mean, that shouldn't be what determines who goes into the Hall of Fame, which should be based on what did that person do on the field. And if we can get more and more information out there about that, then that's what we should be focusing on.

Darin Hayes
So what do you, what in your opinion would be the best way to, to get that information, uh, you know, is there, is there a particular voice that should be heard on, on these panels and the selection committees that, uh, you know, or a genre of people that, that aren't represented right now that would help the selection committee.

Ken Crippen
I mean, I would think historians, I mean, right now there are no historians on there outside of any media member that looks at the history of the game, but you know, how much of that is happening? You have historians that reach out to the selection committee, you know, there's varying degrees of responses. Some say, Hey, this is great information. Others like, yeah, don't care. So it really comes down to the people that are on the selection committee, making sure that they truly evaluate all of the qualified candidates and not just the ones that, you know, they covered or just the ones that were nice to them or something like that. They need to go in there and say, who is the best player that needs to go in? And that's what they should be basing it on. And whether you're going to historians, whether you're doing research on your own, whatever the case may be, something needs to be done because a lot of these guys, like you had said earlier, they deserve to be in there, but they're being ignored because they played too long ago. Committee members don't know anything about them. Whatever the case may be, something needs to change.

Darin Hayes
Now, I think and maybe this is just a biased look at it from my aspect and folks like yourself because, you know, us being PFRA members in the Hall of the Very Good. But it seems recently, you know, I'm sitting here thinking of the Ken Riley seniors of the world that are getting in recently and some others that the Hall of the Very Good seems to be almost like a stepping stone for some of these senior players to get elevated to, you know, be a pro football Hall of Famer. And I think there, you know, maybe like I said, it's a biased opinion of mine to say that there's the influence of that, but there's definitely a correlation if you look at, especially the last five or six years, players that have been elected in the Hall of the Very Good of the PFRA sort of in the next couple of years seem to be elevated, at least a certain number of them.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I mean, you know, they definitely, you know, gain more attention. When you have a group of historians like the BFRA and they put out something saying, hey, you know, these players are deserving of recognition, then maybe people will go back and take a look at their careers. And I'm doing something similar at the FLA, where I'm putting together these scouting reports so that people can get information on these players. And with everything going on, the BFRA, the FLA, any other historian that's out there, if you talk about these players and you show the cases of why they belong, you would hope that at that point, the committee is going to take a look at it and say, hey, you know, I guess they're right. Maybe this person does deserve to be considered.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, it's, I think that's a great point. That's sort of where I was going to, you know, you, you, your, your organization, the PFRA, uh, some of the multiple books that are, are coming out, you know, some great books like Chris Willis, just putting out a book on the 60 minute men of the NFL, where, like you said, there's a lot of player, uh, in his thing, he goes and views, uh, I think it's 40 some players, uh, that were pre -world war two and some, some of them are already in a hall of fame, but all of them have, um, sort of passages from players and coaches of that era that would say, Hey, this guy was outstanding as a pun or, you know, Hey, I couldn't block this guy. You get exactly what you're saying in your interviews that you've done with players recently and over the years, uh, and what you're doing in the FLA. Uh, but so these books and the PFRA and the FLA sort of, you know, bringing attention to these players is such a great thing and, uh, you know, that maybe it'll help some of these selectors to have a better opinion of them to, to get some of these guys in, it's definitely deserve it.

Ken Crippen
Yeah. And you take a look, I mean, I put together a couple of articles, reimagining some of the old decade teams, because you look at like the 1920s, 1930s, especially, but even some of the other old decade teams. And you're kind of scratching your head as far as how some of these players actually made the old decade team, but yet they're being used as reasons why they should be in the hall of fame. I mean, Cecil Isbell is a perfect example. He's on the 1930s old decade team. He played two years in the 1930s and those years were average. He was, he excelled 40, 41, 42, but in the thirties, he wasn't that great. He was an average quarterback at that time. But because the 1940s team was so stacked, there was no way he was going to be able to make it. So they toss him on the 1930s team. Why he didn't earn it. And so, you know, all of this type of information, yeah, somebody makes an old decade team, but really when you take a look at it, should they be on that old decade team, if you're going to use it as part of their case, make sure that it was actually deserving. And, you know, that's something else that I want to be able to do too, is to, to really talk about this. I know, you know, some people discount all decade teams just because, oh, it's a random time. Well, if their career doesn't naturally fit within the 1920 to 1929 timeframe, for example, if their career was 1925 to 1935, you know, they may not make either of the old decade teams, but they had an excellent career. Yeah, it's something, but it's a data point and all data points, as long as they're legitimate data, then that should all be considered. And if they didn't make it, then you can say, okay, well, why didn't they make one of those old decade teams? Because their career spanned a different time period, but still, I think you can go in there and you can take a look. If somebody had an extended career, they should have enough time within one of these old decade teams to have made a difference and to have made, you know, a spot on one of those teams. So regardless of when your career started, when your career ended, I would think that if you were Hall of Fame caliber, you would be on one of those old decade teams, at least, you know, at some point within your career.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, no, I mean, the all decade teams are definitely something that's fairly consistent and some of them are retroactive, but, uh, I mean, all pro selections and pro bowl or all star selections, you know, they're called all star before they were pro bowls, uh, and in the AFL and that, but are those some of the other data points that you think are considerations? Cause it's definitely, it's data that, uh, can drive, uh, to prove a point that, you know, players were beyond the average player. You know, in the league at their, their particular point in time.

Ken Crippen
Yeah. And again, you know, it goes into context. Somebody can make a Pro Bowl, but were they selected first for the Pro Bowl? Or is it that the five guys ahead of them bowed out of it because of injuries or whatever else they couldn't make it? And so now they made the Pro Bowl. Well, that should be part of the data that goes along with it. Were they the first person selected, second person selected or the sixth or seventh person selected that needs to go into it? And, you know, it also can't be that you use all pros and Pro Bowls for one player saying that, OK, this is the reason why they belong in there and then completely ignore it for another player because they don't have all of those honors. If it's something that's important, then it should be consistent across the board. I mean, you know, you brought up Ken Riley earlier. He wasn't making the Pro Bowls. He wasn't making all pros, things like that. It honors didn't matter. They strictly went off of the number of interceptions that he accumulated over his career. And that's how he got inducted. But yet you have somebody else and, you know, they'll say, well, I'm going to pick player X over player Y because they have more Pro Bowls. Well, now, if you've got somebody else that doesn't have any Pro Bowls, then why are you now suddenly saying, well, this person is a Hall of Famer, even though nobody else picked him for any of these these teams? I just want to see more consistency in those types of things. Don't say this is important for one player, but it's irrelevant for another player. Be consistent.

Darin Hayes
Okay, great points. So let's get into maybe if you could tell us what's some of the data that you're putting into your player profiles that you're, to represent these players to give the selection clemity some some information to use.

Ken Crippen
Well, each position has different skills associated with that particular position. Like, you know, say you're looking at a quarterback, you're going to, obviously leadership is something that's hard to quantify. That's something that, you know, you're talking to teammates, you're talking to coaches, you're talking to opposition, things like that, but there's still quantifiable things that you can look at. You know, you look at, you know, well, how quick was their release? What's their arm speed? You know, how tight is the spiral on the ball? How much ball spin that they have? What's the footwork look like? Same with other positions. So you go to a wide receiver position. You want to see how well do they run their routes? How well, well, are they able to break away from defenders and get separation? What kind of speed are they showing? You know, is it straight ahead speed or are they able to, to make those cuts? How well do they make those cuts? You know, planning that foot and moving in a different direction. There's a lot of those things that you can quantify. And as you're going through and watching this film, you can see exactly how well they're performing and be able to grade it accordingly. But then also you have to take into account what error they're in different errors, things were done differently. So you have to make sure that you're taking that into account when you're going through and evaluating these players, you want to make sure that you're grading them according to the way the game was played at that particular time. And that adds another wrinkle to obviously how you put together these reports, but it's something that is important that when you're giving somebody a grade for their particular position, for their particular era, you got to make sure that you're going to be able to consistently be able to look at that grade versus the grade of somebody else at that same position that may have played in a different era. So those are the types of things that we look at. Like I said, each one has different sets of criteria. All of that is spelled out within the reports that we have. You have grades, overall grades for each of those skill sets and then overall performance grades that they have for each game, as well as for their entire career. And then when we're looking at it to the score that we come up with the overall grade, that's going to get stronger the more games we watch. So say, for example, you've got somebody where you watch 30 games, another one where you watch 40 games. If they both have the same score, I'm always going to skew toward the person where we watched more game film, because that means they kept it at that level for a longer period of time. And so when you're looking at our rankings by scores, anything that's tied as far as the score is concerned, we always skew it toward the one where we've watched more game film than the other players.

Darin Hayes
outstanding. I like that the volume of work sort of skews the score to their favor. So that's, it's a great, great thing. Now, if I would, let's say we have some folks watching right now that are on the selection committee, and we could, and who would if they came to you and said, Hey, Ken, you know, we want to come and look at some of these scores, we're trying to look for some seniors to be selected for the next round of ballots here. Who would you recommend that they look at some maybe some folks that aren't getting the attention in the media? That do you think that have some great scores that these folks ought to be looking at considering?

Ken Crippen
I mean, to me, you know, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I picked Lavvie Dilweg and Al Wister is my top two players, especially of the older players. We've got more game film of Wister than we do of Dilweg, but we're still able to go through and see how Dilweg played. But then, as I was mentioning before, we're talking about, okay, what are the testimonials? What are the other media members saying about them? What are historians saying about them? People that watch them play. People were there at the time. And you look at someone like a Laverne Dilweg and it's just inexplicable to me how he can't become a finalist, you know, he, you'll see them in the, in the, um, centennial class where he was part of the top 20, but then never made it beyond that. And then, you know, it was never really been touched since then Al Wister, he's getting close, but he's not making it. These are guys who dominated their position. I mean, Dilweg was the second-best end in the pre-modern era. If you're number two behind one of the greatest of all time in Don Hudson, how can you not be considered? You have somebody that, you know, Ken Riley, you know, we brought his name up earlier, so I don't want to keep picking on him, but doesn't have the all pros, doesn't have the Pro Bowls or anything like that. They used interceptions while he had 64 interceptions in his career. He never led the league in interceptions. He was top five once in interceptions. If you're a Hall of Famer, you only make top five and interceptions once in a 16 year career. There are times he didn't even lead his own team in interceptions, but yet that was the criteria for him getting in. Laverne Dilweg had 27 interceptions from a defensive end position. You look at the other pre -modern era ends that are in the Hall of Fame. They all have single digits in interceptions. Dilweg had 27. The only other end that had more was Hutson, but he played safety. So you're going to have more opportunities. You're going to be able to have more interceptions, and it's only three more than Dilweg had. He led, you know, Dilweg led the league in yards, touchdowns. That's what an end does, but you look at it and you know, eight -time All -Pro, six -time consecutive consensus All -Pro, four -time consecutive unanimous All -Pro, all -decade team. The media members of the day said he was by far the best end of his time, but yet you look at the media members today and they're like, yeah, it doesn't matter.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. Amazing. Especially when you're playing at the same time as Hutson.

Ken Crippen
So basically the reason why people don't know Dilweg's name as much is because Hutson came after him.

Darin Hayes
Oh, okay, they weren't contemporaries of each other.

Ken Crippen
No, it was basically as soon as Dilweg's career ended, that's when Hutson started. So they didn't even overlap by one year.

Darin Hayes
Oh geez. Well, I'm glad that, uh, you know, but it's shining some light on, on players like Dilweg and Wistert and some of the others to maybe, you know, bring more attention to them and hopefully some, some, uh, you know, random parts like we're doing now. And, uh, some of the books that are out PFRA and some of the other organizations we talked about, uh, maybe we get, uh, things go in here, get some momentum on social media and that and, uh, get it out into public perception. And that always helps too, with, uh, helping the selectors to, to be influenced a little bit. So, so we keep up that great work on that. Now, so what are, uh, some of the other, uh, now you're, you're looking at all different eras, I assume when you're, you're putting these things together. So it's not just these, these early, you know, single platoon players, but you're looking at some of the more modern players, like from the last 60, 70 years as well.

Ken Crippen
I mean, I've done some research on that, um, essentially what it is is when Matt Rieser and I started working on this, we said, okay, we want people have had the bulk of their careers prior to 1970. And that's what our focus was now, because, you know, it's been a few years since then I'm going to extend it out beyond that. So people playing in the seventies as well. Um, but my focus is I want people to know about these older players. That's what's important to me. And that's the information I want to get out there.

Darin Hayes
Awesome. I love the, uh, the, what you're doing. I love the, the, uh, line that you're taking to do that because it's, there's a lot of information out there with, like we said, the video and everything of the more modern players, you know, since the seventies, but some of these older guys, they just didn't, there wasn't the ESPNs and the internet that, that we have in this era to look at them. So it's great to get that perception from them. So what else do you have going on at the FLA that, uh, you know, what are some of the other courses you have? I know you glanced upon a couple of them, but, uh, but if somebody wants to come in and get an education at the FLA, what can they expect?

Ken Crippen
Well, there's a bunch of different courses that we have. So you can either look at interviews that we have with individual people. But if you're looking for classes themselves, the scattering reports class that we were talking about, but, you know, we've got classes on the first pro players, excuse me, first pro players, first, uh, forward pass and pro football history, you know, try to trace down the lineage of that, um, talking about new class that I'm working on now is on the Buffalo bills of the all America football conference. So we try to have varying degrees of things that we talk about in various eras, but also got some other instructors that are there. Josie Imba, who, you know, a very noted historian and author, um, does a lot of work on old Chicago Cardinals. Uh, so he's got classes there. Jeff Miller, a Buffalo bills historian, a Buffalo football historian. So he's got a class on the Buffalo Americans of the 1920s. So there's a lot of stuff that's there. Um, so it really depends on what you're interested in. Chances are you're going to find something there that, you know, peaks your interest and makes you want to watch.

Darin Hayes
All right, and what's the best place to go if you want to if you want to give maybe the the URL of of it and we'll repeat it in the show notes of this but go ahead and call out in your in your social media.

Ken Crippen
Yeah. I mean, any of the classes, any of the podcasts that we have, we have links on our website. You've got all our social media channels. So I would say the best place to go is www .football -learning -academy .com. And you'll pretty much find everything right at that location.

Darin Hayes
Okay. And you folks that are looking at this on YouTube, you just look over Ken's shoulder there and he's got all the information spelled out right on his, uh, virtual back screen there too. So, but we'll, we, for you folks that are on the podcast, we will put it into show notes, uh, get you hooked up to Ken and, uh, get educated and learn about these great players, these great teams from the past at the FLA. Ken, we really appreciate you coming on and doing this and really appreciate you preserving these greats of football and both the players, the coaches, the, the people associated with it, the broadcasters and, uh, you know, everybody that's contributed to football and the teams and the games themselves. So thank you for doing that.

Ken Crippen
Well, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

The magic of American football isn't just about the high-energy games or the roar from the stands. It's about the heartfelt romances that bloom both on and off the field. In this article, we will delve into the romantic (or not exactly) side of football and the famous players that have colored its history. We're peeling back the helmet to reveal the more tender side of the gridiron—where love scores its own kind of touchdowns.

Photo Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons, Ohio State vs Mich. State Oct 1979 | AD

-The history of football is intertwined with tales of passion, heartbreak, and enduring love

From the gritty early days on muddy fields to the sleek modern stadiums, romance has always been a part of football's DNA. Back when leather helmets were a thing, players might have been icons of toughness, but they were never immune to love stories. These stories are about fleeting hookups and relationships that helped define and sometimes redirect the lives of those involved. Through the ups and downs, the heartbreaks, and the touchdowns, the heart of football beats strong.

Today, the scene has somewhat shifted, with online dating storming the field. With platforms buzzing about "hot girls near me" and online match-ups. Fans cheer from the sidelines and swipe right in hopes of connecting with someone who shares their passion for the game. It's not uncommon for fans to find each other through dedicated football dating sites, turning shared team loyalty into a starting point for relationships. These connections sometimes lead fans to unexpected encounters with players themselves, blurring the lines between the stands and the field.

-The Golden Ages of American Football

The 1960s through the 1980s marked a vibrant era in American football, transforming players from mere athletes to bona fide national icons. This period, often dubbed the "golden ages" of football, celebrated players not only for their on-field heroics but also for their glamorous and high-profile romantic escapades. The personal lives of these athletes garnered as much spotlight as their athletic prowess, creating a fascinating blend of sports and celebrity culture.

During these decades, figures like Joe Namath and Terry Bradshaw became household names for their football skills and well-publicized love lives. Namath, famously known as "Broadway Joe," was notorious for his swinging bachelor lifestyle, which was as striking as his fur coats. Bradshaw, on the other hand, coupled his rugged charm with a string of high-profile relationships, cementing his status as a heartthrob of football. Their stories, and others like them, fed the media frenzy and public curiosity, making football history not only about scores and championships but also about romance and personal drama.

-Iconic Power Couples

Fast forward to more recent times, and some football players continue to capture our attention with their standout relationships. Take Russell Wilson and Ciara, for instance. This duo is famous enough as a brand, a partnership that forms a powerhouse coupling that commands the spotlight.

Their relationships are not just red carpet appearances and social media posts. They blend personal life, sports, and entertainment in a way that resonates with fans across the world. They manage to keep their relationships strong amidst the hustle of professional commitments and the glare of public scrutiny. These stories of romance and resilience add a human touch to the idols we see on the field, reminding us that they, too, are just humans.

-Tumultuous Affairs and Scandals

One of the most talked-about scandals in football romance unfolded with New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and actress Bridget Moynahan. In 2007, this high-profile pairing dramatically hit the headlines. Moynahan and Brady had ended their relationship when she announced her pregnancy. This news came as Brady had just begun dating supermodel Gisele Bündchen, setting the stage for a media frenzy.

This love triangle was a feast for the tabloids. The media played no small part in blowing up the story. Every detail, from secretive texts to public spats between the involved parties, was dissected and discussed. This relentless coverage turned personal drama into a public spectacle, affecting the player's focus and performance on the field.

The consequences for Brady were significant. While his on-field performance remained stellar, winning multiple Super Bowls with the Patriots, his off-field life was under constant scrutiny. Endorsements dried up as brands distanced themselves, fearing the negative association. The player's relationship with teammates and coaches is strained, showing just how quickly off-field issues can bleed into professional life.

This scenario is a stark reminder of the harsh spotlight athletes face and the fine line between personal freedom and public responsibility. It demonstrates how personal decisions can become a public spectacle and their lasting impact on the personal and professional lives of those involved.

-5. Main lessons and tips to build relationships with players

Dating a football player is not for the faint of heart. It comes with its set of challenges, from managing public life to understanding the intense pressures of the game. Here are some real-talk tips for those rolling through this high-profile dating:

-Understand the game: Knowing football, its demands, and its schedule can help you understand why your partner might be MIA during training camps or stressed during playoffs.

-Privacy is key: Keep your personal life low-key. The less the paparazzi know, the better. This means fewer chances of your relationship drama becoming tabloid fodder.

-Support system: Be the solid support your partner needs. Whether it's a loss on the field or media criticism, showing that you're in their corner can make all the difference.

-Set boundaries: Discuss what is okay to share publicly and what stays private. This mutual understanding can prevent a lot of drama.

-Stay grounded: It's easy to get caught up in the glitz and glamour of the sports world. Keeping it real with your partner ensures the relationship stays genuine and doesn't become just another spectacle.

-Conclusion

Love and football is as old as the sport itself. These relationships, whether they end in fairy tales or scandals, highlight the intensely human aspect of athletes who are often seen only as sports figures. The stories of their romances remind us that behind the superhuman feats on the field, there are personal lives full of the same passions and pitfalls that touch us all.

In the end, these tales of love—joyous, tragic, or scandalous—offer a glimpse into the emotional drives that can influence not just a player's life but their team, too. They remind fans and spectators alike that at the heart of every game, human stories are unfolding.