Football History

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Born August 12, 1913, in Redwood Falls, Minn, Ward Cuff was not just a typical athlete. His versatility was his strength. He excelled in various sports, from being a heavyweight boxer at Marquette University to holding the school record for javelin throw in track and field and shining on the football field as a star fullback for the Golden Eagles.

Playing the position of fullback for the Golden Eagles, Cuff was part of a team that played in the first Cotton Bowl in 1937 against TCU. Ward was far from being the feature back in college, but he was an effective blocker for their All-American halfback Ray Buivid, who was in the top three for the Heisman voting, and the talented brother rushing tandem of Al and Art Guepe. Giants Head Coach Steve Owen was able to navigate through the talent in the Golden Eagle backfield and chose Cuff with the Giant's fourth-round pick in the 1937 NFL Draft, which was the 34th overall selection that year. The 6'-1" 192 youngster was known for his blocking and stocking his shoulder to tackle the opposition when on defense.

Owen loved smart players who were very athletic in his single-platoon coaching era. Owen contrived the concept of having two squads of players that do a mass substitution at the change of quarters to give his team fresh legs and wear down an opponent. The Cuff was the focus of the rushing attack and a pivotal player of defense and countered the other Giants squad that had Tuffy Leemans as its premier athlete. Though the strategy was very effective in winning ball games, it could have been more conducive to providing standout statistics for players like Leemans and Cuff.

Owen innovatively used Ward's talents and even trained him to place kick. Coach Owen had this to say about his player, "Cuff had tremendous leg drive and an excellent sense of balance. I was not too certain about the third necessary qualification but that was speedily discovered when we scrimmaged. Mr. Cuff has nothing but ice water in his veins. Nothing rattles him. He looked like a perfect prospect."

At other times, Leemans, Ed Danowski, and Ward Cuff would be in the same backfield in what Coach Owens would deem the "A" formation, and Cuff's services as a dependable lead blocker would be employed.

-Ward Cuff: The Underrated Giant

Ward Cuff, a name often overshadowed by his more illustrious contemporaries, was a cornerstone of the New York Giants during their golden era. His impact on the team's success was undeniable, and his versatility as a runner, receiver, kicker, and defender was a testament to his athletic prowess.

Cuff's statistical prowess is impressive. He amassed over 1,800 rushing yards, showcasing his ability to break tackles and find the end zone. He rumbled for over 1,800 yards as a rusher and found the paydirt seven times, demonstrating his sure hands and knack for getting open. But his impact extended beyond offense. Cuff was a reliable kicker, converting 43 field goals, and his defensive contributions were invaluable. He was the NFL's leading kicker for multiple seasons.

While Cuff's accolades might not be as numerous as some of his peers, his consistent performance and versatility were instrumental in the Giants' success. He was an actual football player, excelling in multiple facets of the game. Though his career has often been overshadowed, Ward Cuff's contributions to the New York Giants legacy are undeniable.

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Native American players have played a pivotal role in shaping the game of American football. Their athleticism, skill, and unique cultural perspective have enriched the sport in countless ways. From the early days of the game to the modern era, Native American athletes have consistently excelled on the gridiron.

In this episode, we talk with an expert studying and preserving the legacies of legendary Native American athletes.

Bill Black, a Native American himself, has started a movement to recognize these incredible athletes, and we have the opportunity to learn more about some of his football players to whom the homage is paid in this episode. Visit this amazing site: NDN All-Stars, where football legends such as Jim Thorpe, Joe Guyon, Jim Plunkett, and Sonny Sixkiller are remembered next to Native American athletes of other sports genres like Johnny Bench, Louis Sockalexis, Shoni Schimmel, Jack Dempsey, Notah Begay, Rickie Fowler, and so many more!

One of the most significant contributions of Native American players has been their physical prowess. Their natural athleticism, often honed through traditional hunting and gathering practices, has made them formidable opponents. Many Native American players have possessed exceptional speed, agility, and strength, qualities that have been essential to success in football.

Beyond their physical abilities, Native American players have also brought a distinct cultural perspective to the game. Their deep connection to the land and their strong sense of community have influenced their approach to the sport. Native American players often exhibit a unique blend of toughness, resilience, and a team-first mentality. These qualities have helped them to overcome adversity and achieve success on the football field.

In conclusion, Native American players have made invaluable contributions to the game of American football. Their athleticism, skill, and cultural perspective have enriched the sport in countless ways. From the early days of the game to the modern era, Native American athletes have consistently excelled on the gridiron, leaving a lasting legacy that will continue to inspire generations of players to come.

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We welcome author Doug Vilhard to the Pigpen to discuss his captivating new book, "The Golden Age of Red," which shines a light on the legendary football player Red Grange and his impact on the sport. Set in the 1920s, the conversation explores Grange's journey from a humble college athlete to a national sensation, revealing the complexities of fame and the pressures that came with it. The episode delves into the intriguing relationship between Grange and his groundbreaking sports agent, C.C. Pyle, who played a pivotal role in reshaping the business of football.

Takeaways
-Darin Hayes introduces Doug Vilhard and discusses his book about Red Grange, 'The Golden Age of Red'.

-The podcast explores the impact of Red Grange on American football and his legendary status.

-Doug shares insights about CC Pyle, America's first sports agent, and their partnership.

-The narrative highlights the historical context of football during the roaring twenties, focusing on key figures and events.

-Listeners learn about the challenges Red Grange faced, including injuries and the expectations of fame.

-The episode emphasizes the evolution of college football and the relationship between athletics and business.

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We may have all wondered in the past how players like Deacon Jones, Joe Greene, and countless others compared in the realm of tackles for loss and QB sacks with modern players. Our Guest Nick Webster did not only wonder, but did something about it along with cohort John Turney, as they brought to us the sacks and tackles prior to 1982.

Nick Webster, John Turney, and others over at the Pro Football Journal have painstakingly helped us know how players prior to the NFL officially adopting some statistics fared in comparison to today's athletes on the gridiron. Nick joins us in this episode to tell us how they did it and bring some good old-time football memories back to our modern times.

In the interview, Webster discusses the challenges of finding data on sacks from before 1982, when the NFL began tracking them officially. He explains that he and Turney used a variety of sources, including play-by-play accounts, newspaper articles, and coaches' accounts.

Webster also discusses the reasons why sacks were not an official statistic before 1982. He says that the nature of football makes it more difficult to track sacks than other statistics, such as interceptions or fumbles. Additionally, he says there was no focus on defense in the early days of football, so there was no incentive to track sacks.

The interview concludes with Webster discussing his ongoing work to collect data on sacks from before 1982. He says that he is still looking for play-by-play accounts and film footage from the 1950s and 1960s.

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Here is a Pigskin Dispatch video on the namesake of the Outland Trophy, John Outland.

Born in 1871, Outland's path to football glory was far from linear. He began humbly, captaining his college squad with an unmatched blend of power and finesse. Yet, his ambitions lay beyond the dusty plains of the Midwest. He yearned for the intellectual rigor of the East Coast, and it was at the University of Pennsylvania that Outland's star truly exploded.

Here, amidst the ivy-covered halls and gaslight-lit streets, he donned the crimson and blue of the Quakers. But unlike the refined gentlemen surrounding him, Outland remained a son of the earth. He played with a ferocity that belied his gentle nature, a quiet dominance that left opponents bewildered and teammates awestruck. His tackles were immovable pillars, his runs unstoppable forces of nature. He was a paradox, a poet with the physique of a bear, a scholar who spoke the language of broken bone and shattered defenses.

But Outland's impact stretched beyond the gridiron. He saw the underappreciated role of interior linemen, those unsung heroes who toiled in the trenches, their sacrifices often fading into the roar of the crowd. He fought for their recognition, championing their cause until it resonated across the nation.

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The NFL, with its passionate fans and high-stakes games, is no stranger to controversy. But did you know the league's first major controversy stretches back to its very early days? The 1921 NFL Championship, shrouded in accusations and a sense of injustice, remains a hotly debated topic even a century later.

Was a dominant team robbed of their rightful title? Did a loophole in the rules lead to a questionable champion? Join us as we untangle the truth behind the 1921 NFL Championship controversy. We'll delve into the events that unfolded, the accusations that flew, and the lasting impact it had on the young professional football league. This is a story of ambition, heartbreak, and the fight for football supremacy – a story that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about the NFL's beginnings.

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The video covers an interview with Ken Crippen, the founder of the Football Learning Academy, an online school teaching pro football history. The academy aims to provide historical context to today's game by educating about the origins, players, and early days of football. It also serves as a platform to raise funds and support retired players in need, especially older players struggling with medical bills.

Crippen discusses the academy's classes, featuring interviews with legendary figures like coaches, broadcasters, executives, and players from different eras. He highlights a recent class on historical scouting reports, where he and a colleague analyze film and grade players, focusing on older candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The class includes biographies, honors, statistics, and interviews with players discussing position-specific skills across different eras. Crippen emphasizes the importance of preserving firsthand accounts and providing information to aid the Hall of Fame's senior selection committee.

Ken and his team just launched a new class at the Football Learning Academy: Historical Scouting Reports. This class has:

-Video interviews with players talking about how to play their positions during their eras

-Historical scouting reports of players going back to the 1920s

-Profiles of potential contributors for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

-Transcript of Chat with KenCrippen FLA Historical Data

Darin Hayes
Hello, my football friends. This is Darren Hayes at pigskin -dispatch .com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your report of our positive football history. And welcome to another great edition where we get to visit with one of our friends, a football historian, the leader and founder of the Football Learning Academy, Ken Crippen. Ken, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Ken Crippen
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Darin Hayes
Ken, you have a lot of things going on at the Football Learning Academy. We really haven't touched base with you in probably probably almost a year now. And I know you have so many exciting things going on. And you have one thing in particular you want to talk about today. But won't you give us a general overview of what the Football Learning Academy is and some of the happenings you got going?

Ken Crippen
All right. The Football Learning Academy is an online school teaching pro football history. And what we're trying to do is to put today's game into historical context by teaching about where the game came from, the people who played the game, especially in the earlier days. And then second to that is that we have a platform to be able to help retired players in need. So, you know, we know that players are struggling to pay their medical bills, especially the older players. They're not making the millions of dollars like a lot of players are today. So I want to be able to use this platform to raise money to be able to help those players. So portion of all the proceeds generated at the football learning academy go to help those retired players that need it the most.

Darin Hayes
Uh, that is definitely a worthy cause. And, uh, we were so great, glad grateful that you were doing that. And I'm sure the players themselves that are receiving the benefits of it are as well, and it seems like you have some great participation because you have so many former players and former, uh, people that were involved in pro football, uh, aiding you and coming in and doing classes and, uh, being guests, uh, on both the, your, your lessons and on your podcast that, uh, it seems very beneficial all the way around.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I mean, if you take a look at some of the classes, I mean, we've got an interview with coach Don Shula that I did, uh, obviously prior to his passing, um, Ken Riley, same thing. Uh, we have an interview with him, uh, legendary broadcaster, Leslie Visser. Uh, we've got classes with exclusive interviews with Marlon Brisco and Dan Rooney. Uh, you move over to the podcast, several hall of famers, John Hannah, you've got Brian Erlocker, Ron mix was released this week. Uh, you've got other well -known people, Michael Lombardi, former NFL scout and executive, um, Amy Trask, former NFL CEO, head coach Mark Trestman, uh, offensive lineman, Richard, uh, Richmond web. Uh, and then coming up, we've got an episode with ESPN's Chris Berman. So there's a lot of, uh, a lot of fascinating stuff there.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. You got the whole gambit there. You've got the, the TV talking head celebrities like Berman and, and Visser and you're going to, you know, coach Shula and John Hannah and Dan Rooney, you know, some of the executives and Michael Lombardi, that is really a well -rounded thing with all the players and coaches and a broadcaster. So very well done. And if you can't get some great insight from those folks, I don't know who you can. So great job. A lot of knowledge there. Yeah. Most definitely. But you approached me here not too long ago and you have something really exciting going on, some new classes that you have going on that you wanted to talk about today. So why don't you fill us in on that.

Ken Crippen
All right. The most recent class that we released is on historical pro football, scattering reports. So a colleague of mine, Matt Rieser and I, we went back and we studied film. This is something we started years ago. And what we would do is grade some of these players in each game and then all, you know, giving them an overall grade. So what we wanted to do is focus on some of the older players, especially ones where their names were coming up for the pro football hall of fame and the seniors. Pool. We had Mick Tinglehoff, Dick Barwegan, um, a bunch of other people. So there was a lot there that, um, we really wanted to be able to let people know about these players. A lot of people have never seen them play. Um, so anything that we can do to try to help people. And again, you know, back to our mission of educating people, we wanted to be able to do that, but then also have a resource for the senior selection committee to be able to see this information. I mean, a lot of them don't have the time to go through and, and study the film and things like that. So we're doing that work for them. So, uh, since, you know, we had some of those original scouting reports come out. I've gone through, I've added biographies, uh, the honors that they've had testimonial statistics. Um, but another thing that's interesting that I've adding, uh, been adding to this class is that I am interviewing a lot of these players and talking about the skills necessary to play their position within their particular era. So for example, Ron mix, as I'd mentioned before, Hall of Famer, he's talking about offensive line play, I've got another guy on there, Greg Thomas. He was the first African American starting quarterback for the university of Arkansas, he's talking about quarterback play. And I'm going to continue to add more scattering reports, add more videos, things like that on these particular players and how to play these positions, especially talking to players in different eras. So if you got somebody playing into fifties, somebody in the sixties, somebody in the seventies, et cetera. Now you can see how things evolved for that particular position by talking to the players that actually played that position. So it's a pretty interesting class. And, uh, I think a lot of people will be able to get something out of it.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, that's brilliant going to the different areas because it's almost, uh, if you look at games, like in the forties and fifties, they're a much different game. You know, the basics are there for football, but the way it's played in the strategies and blocking schemes and everything else are so much different than, uh, they are today and even, even in the seventies today. So that's great to get the perspective of the guys that were actually in the trenches and, and taking the hits to give that perspective. So you're very interesting.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that, you know, there's a lot that can be learned from that, especially when you're getting the firsthand accounts, because not only are you talking about the schemes, but we also go into players, you know, when I was talking with Ron mix, I was talking about playing against Deacon Jones, I mean, one of the greatest of all time. So you talk about, you know, the different techniques, the people that they struggled against, the people that they were successful against, why they were successful against them, why they struggled against them. There's a lot that you can pull out of that. And so being able to record these firsthand accounts, I think is definitely going to be beneficial, especially as we continue to progress in time.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, especially, you know, unfortunately, we're losing so many of these legends of the game seems like on a daily basis, you know, seems like every day you pick up the paper, you look on the Internet, you lose another star. So preserving the legacy of these folks and getting them recorded, even them talking about some other players that they played against or played with, like you said, is a very valuable resource. So very well done on that. Appreciate it. Yeah. Now, you can you said a little bit the you're providing information with the information that you're putting on this new project you got going on for the Senior Selection Committee. Now, on on average, what's the Hall of Fame? How many of the seniors are they trying to get in each year? Is there a certain numbers that sort of hit or miss?

Ken Crippen
It's been changing right now. You could have a maximum of three, but that's only been in place for a couple of years now. I think that expires maybe next year where they evaluate and see if they're going to still try to have a maximum of three every year or whether it's going to be going backwards or maybe it goes only two or one per year. So as of right now, it's three.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. Cause it seems like there's a tremendous amount, especially the early players, the first, uh, 20, 30 years of the NFL that probably are deserving to be in there, uh, but didn't really have the opportunity because the NFL or the pro football hall of fam, sorry, didn't start until the early 1960s. So some of these guys were long forgotten. Uh, and now with the resurgence of their information because of the internet, uh, football learning academy, PFRA and, and others, you know, and all the books that are coming out now, we have a lot more information, probably a better view of these folks now, uh, some 60 years later than they did in the early 60s. So I think it's invaluable that I'm glad that they're trying to put some more in, and I know they had sort of a bigger number, a hundredth anniversary, uh, of, uh, the NFL and then 2020, uh, but I, I know it's sort of dwindled down from, so, so three is sort of the targets still.

Ken Crippen
As of right now, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, they're don't see, it doesn't seem to be much interest in the older players. It's more of the more recent players within the senior pool that they're focusing on. So we may have trouble getting in some of those deserving people from the earlier days. It really comes down to the selection committee. If they're showing no interest in doing that, then you're not going to get any of those players in. Thanks for watching!

Darin Hayes
Now the selection committee, as far as I know, the folks that are in are mostly journalists. Is that true? Or is there still some executives? I think there

Ken Crippen
There are still a few executives, there may be a few former players, but that's on the overall committee itself. The actual seniors committee, I think is pretty much made up of strictly media members. So whether they're journalists, whether they're TV, whatever, it's mainly going to be journalists. And if you look at the overall committee, the bulk of them are going to be journalists.

Darin Hayes
And probably just human nature, the people that they know the most about are the people that they saw play, just like you or I or any of the listeners or viewers would say, you know, you know, you saw, you know, players, you know, like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady play, but that was some outstanding play by this player. So very difficult journey for these guys, especially in early football.

Ken Crippen
But I think, you know, you can also look at it too is that, you know, the media members of today saying we're the most qualified to be able to determine who's in the hall of fame, who was the best because we watched them play. But yet you bring up the media members of the day who watched those players and the hall of famers that have testimonials for those players and things like that. Why aren't they listening to them? I mean, wouldn't their opinions be just as valid. So if you've got somebody that is consistently making all pros who's consistently getting honors who's consistently. You get testimonials saying that they're the best player that they played against and these are hall of famers that are saying this to me you should be listening to that and not just saying well you know I know more because I saw these most recent players play. Listen to what the media members of the day said about those players, because if the media is the one that is the best judge of who's a Hall of Famer and who isn't. How about we listen to those media members.

Darin Hayes
Great, great point, but it's hard to have a voice for those folks that aren't around anymore, but we, but we have their word in print and it's, uh, I guess it's a tough methodology for folks like us as frustrating for us historians to sit there and say, where we don't really don't have a voice into it in the media does. So I understand the frustration, uh, but I also understand the dilemma that the NFL and the hall of fame, uh, sort of have on their plate there. So hopefully we can come to some, uh, resolution to, to help them out here and doing things like you're doing with these, uh, having these, uh, guides for them to look at is definitely a great step.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I think so. It's just any information that we can get out there about these players is only going to be beneficial. So, you know, we shouldn't be relying on, you know, whose kid puts together the best PR campaign for their, their parent. I mean, that shouldn't be what determines who goes into the Hall of Fame, which should be based on what did that person do on the field. And if we can get more and more information out there about that, then that's what we should be focusing on.

Darin Hayes
So what do you, what in your opinion would be the best way to, to get that information, uh, you know, is there, is there a particular voice that should be heard on, on these panels and the selection committees that, uh, you know, or a genre of people that, that aren't represented right now that would help the selection committee.

Ken Crippen
I mean, I would think historians, I mean, right now there are no historians on there outside of any media member that looks at the history of the game, but you know, how much of that is happening? You have historians that reach out to the selection committee, you know, there's varying degrees of responses. Some say, Hey, this is great information. Others like, yeah, don't care. So it really comes down to the people that are on the selection committee, making sure that they truly evaluate all of the qualified candidates and not just the ones that, you know, they covered or just the ones that were nice to them or something like that. They need to go in there and say, who is the best player that needs to go in? And that's what they should be basing it on. And whether you're going to historians, whether you're doing research on your own, whatever the case may be, something needs to be done because a lot of these guys, like you had said earlier, they deserve to be in there, but they're being ignored because they played too long ago. Committee members don't know anything about them. Whatever the case may be, something needs to change.

Darin Hayes
Now, I think and maybe this is just a biased look at it from my aspect and folks like yourself because, you know, us being PFRA members in the Hall of the Very Good. But it seems recently, you know, I'm sitting here thinking of the Ken Riley seniors of the world that are getting in recently and some others that the Hall of the Very Good seems to be almost like a stepping stone for some of these senior players to get elevated to, you know, be a pro football Hall of Famer. And I think there, you know, maybe like I said, it's a biased opinion of mine to say that there's the influence of that, but there's definitely a correlation if you look at, especially the last five or six years, players that have been elected in the Hall of the Very Good of the PFRA sort of in the next couple of years seem to be elevated, at least a certain number of them.

Ken Crippen
Yeah, I mean, you know, they definitely, you know, gain more attention. When you have a group of historians like the BFRA and they put out something saying, hey, you know, these players are deserving of recognition, then maybe people will go back and take a look at their careers. And I'm doing something similar at the FLA, where I'm putting together these scouting reports so that people can get information on these players. And with everything going on, the BFRA, the FLA, any other historian that's out there, if you talk about these players and you show the cases of why they belong, you would hope that at that point, the committee is going to take a look at it and say, hey, you know, I guess they're right. Maybe this person does deserve to be considered.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, it's, I think that's a great point. That's sort of where I was going to, you know, you, you, your, your organization, the PFRA, uh, some of the multiple books that are, are coming out, you know, some great books like Chris Willis, just putting out a book on the 60 minute men of the NFL, where, like you said, there's a lot of player, uh, in his thing, he goes and views, uh, I think it's 40 some players, uh, that were pre -world war two and some, some of them are already in a hall of fame, but all of them have, um, sort of passages from players and coaches of that era that would say, Hey, this guy was outstanding as a pun or, you know, Hey, I couldn't block this guy. You get exactly what you're saying in your interviews that you've done with players recently and over the years, uh, and what you're doing in the FLA. Uh, but so these books and the PFRA and the FLA sort of, you know, bringing attention to these players is such a great thing and, uh, you know, that maybe it'll help some of these selectors to have a better opinion of them to, to get some of these guys in, it's definitely deserve it.

Ken Crippen
Yeah. And you take a look, I mean, I put together a couple of articles, reimagining some of the old decade teams, because you look at like the 1920s, 1930s, especially, but even some of the other old decade teams. And you're kind of scratching your head as far as how some of these players actually made the old decade team, but yet they're being used as reasons why they should be in the hall of fame. I mean, Cecil Isbell is a perfect example. He's on the 1930s old decade team. He played two years in the 1930s and those years were average. He was, he excelled 40, 41, 42, but in the thirties, he wasn't that great. He was an average quarterback at that time. But because the 1940s team was so stacked, there was no way he was going to be able to make it. So they toss him on the 1930s team. Why he didn't earn it. And so, you know, all of this type of information, yeah, somebody makes an old decade team, but really when you take a look at it, should they be on that old decade team, if you're going to use it as part of their case, make sure that it was actually deserving. And, you know, that's something else that I want to be able to do too, is to, to really talk about this. I know, you know, some people discount all decade teams just because, oh, it's a random time. Well, if their career doesn't naturally fit within the 1920 to 1929 timeframe, for example, if their career was 1925 to 1935, you know, they may not make either of the old decade teams, but they had an excellent career. Yeah, it's something, but it's a data point and all data points, as long as they're legitimate data, then that should all be considered. And if they didn't make it, then you can say, okay, well, why didn't they make one of those old decade teams? Because their career spanned a different time period, but still, I think you can go in there and you can take a look. If somebody had an extended career, they should have enough time within one of these old decade teams to have made a difference and to have made, you know, a spot on one of those teams. So regardless of when your career started, when your career ended, I would think that if you were Hall of Fame caliber, you would be on one of those old decade teams, at least, you know, at some point within your career.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, no, I mean, the all decade teams are definitely something that's fairly consistent and some of them are retroactive, but, uh, I mean, all pro selections and pro bowl or all star selections, you know, they're called all star before they were pro bowls, uh, and in the AFL and that, but are those some of the other data points that you think are considerations? Cause it's definitely, it's data that, uh, can drive, uh, to prove a point that, you know, players were beyond the average player. You know, in the league at their, their particular point in time.

Ken Crippen
Yeah. And again, you know, it goes into context. Somebody can make a Pro Bowl, but were they selected first for the Pro Bowl? Or is it that the five guys ahead of them bowed out of it because of injuries or whatever else they couldn't make it? And so now they made the Pro Bowl. Well, that should be part of the data that goes along with it. Were they the first person selected, second person selected or the sixth or seventh person selected that needs to go into it? And, you know, it also can't be that you use all pros and Pro Bowls for one player saying that, OK, this is the reason why they belong in there and then completely ignore it for another player because they don't have all of those honors. If it's something that's important, then it should be consistent across the board. I mean, you know, you brought up Ken Riley earlier. He wasn't making the Pro Bowls. He wasn't making all pros, things like that. It honors didn't matter. They strictly went off of the number of interceptions that he accumulated over his career. And that's how he got inducted. But yet you have somebody else and, you know, they'll say, well, I'm going to pick player X over player Y because they have more Pro Bowls. Well, now, if you've got somebody else that doesn't have any Pro Bowls, then why are you now suddenly saying, well, this person is a Hall of Famer, even though nobody else picked him for any of these these teams? I just want to see more consistency in those types of things. Don't say this is important for one player, but it's irrelevant for another player. Be consistent.

Darin Hayes
Okay, great points. So let's get into maybe if you could tell us what's some of the data that you're putting into your player profiles that you're, to represent these players to give the selection clemity some some information to use.

Ken Crippen
Well, each position has different skills associated with that particular position. Like, you know, say you're looking at a quarterback, you're going to, obviously leadership is something that's hard to quantify. That's something that, you know, you're talking to teammates, you're talking to coaches, you're talking to opposition, things like that, but there's still quantifiable things that you can look at. You know, you look at, you know, well, how quick was their release? What's their arm speed? You know, how tight is the spiral on the ball? How much ball spin that they have? What's the footwork look like? Same with other positions. So you go to a wide receiver position. You want to see how well do they run their routes? How well, well, are they able to break away from defenders and get separation? What kind of speed are they showing? You know, is it straight ahead speed or are they able to, to make those cuts? How well do they make those cuts? You know, planning that foot and moving in a different direction. There's a lot of those things that you can quantify. And as you're going through and watching this film, you can see exactly how well they're performing and be able to grade it accordingly. But then also you have to take into account what error they're in different errors, things were done differently. So you have to make sure that you're taking that into account when you're going through and evaluating these players, you want to make sure that you're grading them according to the way the game was played at that particular time. And that adds another wrinkle to obviously how you put together these reports, but it's something that is important that when you're giving somebody a grade for their particular position, for their particular era, you got to make sure that you're going to be able to consistently be able to look at that grade versus the grade of somebody else at that same position that may have played in a different era. So those are the types of things that we look at. Like I said, each one has different sets of criteria. All of that is spelled out within the reports that we have. You have grades, overall grades for each of those skill sets and then overall performance grades that they have for each game, as well as for their entire career. And then when we're looking at it to the score that we come up with the overall grade, that's going to get stronger the more games we watch. So say, for example, you've got somebody where you watch 30 games, another one where you watch 40 games. If they both have the same score, I'm always going to skew toward the person where we watched more game film, because that means they kept it at that level for a longer period of time. And so when you're looking at our rankings by scores, anything that's tied as far as the score is concerned, we always skew it toward the one where we've watched more game film than the other players.

Darin Hayes
outstanding. I like that the volume of work sort of skews the score to their favor. So that's, it's a great, great thing. Now, if I would, let's say we have some folks watching right now that are on the selection committee, and we could, and who would if they came to you and said, Hey, Ken, you know, we want to come and look at some of these scores, we're trying to look for some seniors to be selected for the next round of ballots here. Who would you recommend that they look at some maybe some folks that aren't getting the attention in the media? That do you think that have some great scores that these folks ought to be looking at considering?

Ken Crippen
I mean, to me, you know, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I picked Lavvie Dilweg and Al Wister is my top two players, especially of the older players. We've got more game film of Wister than we do of Dilweg, but we're still able to go through and see how Dilweg played. But then, as I was mentioning before, we're talking about, okay, what are the testimonials? What are the other media members saying about them? What are historians saying about them? People that watch them play. People were there at the time. And you look at someone like a Laverne Dilweg and it's just inexplicable to me how he can't become a finalist, you know, he, you'll see them in the, in the, um, centennial class where he was part of the top 20, but then never made it beyond that. And then, you know, it was never really been touched since then Al Wister, he's getting close, but he's not making it. These are guys who dominated their position. I mean, Dilweg was the second-best end in the pre-modern era. If you're number two behind one of the greatest of all time in Don Hudson, how can you not be considered? You have somebody that, you know, Ken Riley, you know, we brought his name up earlier, so I don't want to keep picking on him, but doesn't have the all pros, doesn't have the Pro Bowls or anything like that. They used interceptions while he had 64 interceptions in his career. He never led the league in interceptions. He was top five once in interceptions. If you're a Hall of Famer, you only make top five and interceptions once in a 16 year career. There are times he didn't even lead his own team in interceptions, but yet that was the criteria for him getting in. Laverne Dilweg had 27 interceptions from a defensive end position. You look at the other pre -modern era ends that are in the Hall of Fame. They all have single digits in interceptions. Dilweg had 27. The only other end that had more was Hutson, but he played safety. So you're going to have more opportunities. You're going to be able to have more interceptions, and it's only three more than Dilweg had. He led, you know, Dilweg led the league in yards, touchdowns. That's what an end does, but you look at it and you know, eight -time All -Pro, six -time consecutive consensus All -Pro, four -time consecutive unanimous All -Pro, all -decade team. The media members of the day said he was by far the best end of his time, but yet you look at the media members today and they're like, yeah, it doesn't matter.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. Amazing. Especially when you're playing at the same time as Hutson.

Ken Crippen
So basically the reason why people don't know Dilweg's name as much is because Hutson came after him.

Darin Hayes
Oh, okay, they weren't contemporaries of each other.

Ken Crippen
No, it was basically as soon as Dilweg's career ended, that's when Hutson started. So they didn't even overlap by one year.

Darin Hayes
Oh geez. Well, I'm glad that, uh, you know, but it's shining some light on, on players like Dilweg and Wistert and some of the others to maybe, you know, bring more attention to them and hopefully some, some, uh, you know, random parts like we're doing now. And, uh, some of the books that are out PFRA and some of the other organizations we talked about, uh, maybe we get, uh, things go in here, get some momentum on social media and that and, uh, get it out into public perception. And that always helps too, with, uh, helping the selectors to, to be influenced a little bit. So, so we keep up that great work on that. Now, so what are, uh, some of the other, uh, now you're, you're looking at all different eras, I assume when you're, you're putting these things together. So it's not just these, these early, you know, single platoon players, but you're looking at some of the more modern players, like from the last 60, 70 years as well.

Ken Crippen
I mean, I've done some research on that, um, essentially what it is is when Matt Rieser and I started working on this, we said, okay, we want people have had the bulk of their careers prior to 1970. And that's what our focus was now, because, you know, it's been a few years since then I'm going to extend it out beyond that. So people playing in the seventies as well. Um, but my focus is I want people to know about these older players. That's what's important to me. And that's the information I want to get out there.

Darin Hayes
Awesome. I love the, uh, the, what you're doing. I love the, the, uh, line that you're taking to do that because it's, there's a lot of information out there with, like we said, the video and everything of the more modern players, you know, since the seventies, but some of these older guys, they just didn't, there wasn't the ESPNs and the internet that, that we have in this era to look at them. So it's great to get that perception from them. So what else do you have going on at the FLA that, uh, you know, what are some of the other courses you have? I know you glanced upon a couple of them, but, uh, but if somebody wants to come in and get an education at the FLA, what can they expect?

Ken Crippen
Well, there's a bunch of different courses that we have. So you can either look at interviews that we have with individual people. But if you're looking for classes themselves, the scattering reports class that we were talking about, but, you know, we've got classes on the first pro players, excuse me, first pro players, first, uh, forward pass and pro football history, you know, try to trace down the lineage of that, um, talking about new class that I'm working on now is on the Buffalo bills of the all America football conference. So we try to have varying degrees of things that we talk about in various eras, but also got some other instructors that are there. Josie Imba, who, you know, a very noted historian and author, um, does a lot of work on old Chicago Cardinals. Uh, so he's got classes there. Jeff Miller, a Buffalo bills historian, a Buffalo football historian. So he's got a class on the Buffalo Americans of the 1920s. So there's a lot of stuff that's there. Um, so it really depends on what you're interested in. Chances are you're going to find something there that, you know, peaks your interest and makes you want to watch.

Darin Hayes
All right, and what's the best place to go if you want to if you want to give maybe the the URL of of it and we'll repeat it in the show notes of this but go ahead and call out in your in your social media.

Ken Crippen
Yeah. I mean, any of the classes, any of the podcasts that we have, we have links on our website. You've got all our social media channels. So I would say the best place to go is www .football -learning -academy .com. And you'll pretty much find everything right at that location.

Darin Hayes
Okay. And you folks that are looking at this on YouTube, you just look over Ken's shoulder there and he's got all the information spelled out right on his, uh, virtual back screen there too. So, but we'll, we, for you folks that are on the podcast, we will put it into show notes, uh, get you hooked up to Ken and, uh, get educated and learn about these great players, these great teams from the past at the FLA. Ken, we really appreciate you coming on and doing this and really appreciate you preserving these greats of football and both the players, the coaches, the, the people associated with it, the broadcasters and, uh, you know, everybody that's contributed to football and the teams and the games themselves. So thank you for doing that.

Ken Crippen
Well, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

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Hinkey Haines was different from your typical athlete. He carved a unique path in the early 20th century, excelling in football and baseball at the highest levels. This study explores his journey across two sports, highlighting his achievements and impact on the gridiron and the diamond.

Only one athlete has played on a team that won the World Series and the NFL championship. The legendary Hinkey Haines is a talented athlete who contributed significantly to both pro sports titles.

-Early Promise: A Star is Born

Henry Luther "Hinkey" Haines was born in Red Lion on December 23, 1898, the oldest of five children of Harry and Cora Ness Haines. Hinkey's father, Harry, was a successful businessman in Red Lion. He started his career in the thriving local cigar industry, working his Way up from factory helper to salesman and eventually owning his factory. Harry's civic involvement was just as impressive. He served as Red Lion's chief burgess, or mayor, for most of the 1920s and later went on to represent Pennsylvania in the U.S. Congress for five terms, from 1931 to 1939 and again from 1941 to 1943.

A big question is how he earned the moniker he is most well known by. Hinkey is a silly boyhood creation by boarding school buddies.

Young Henry displayed athletic prowess from a young age. He starred in football and baseball at Red Lion High School, showcasing his versatility and talent. He then continued his athletic pursuits at Lebanon Valley College, where he significantly contributed to the development of the football program. However, his collegiate career was interrupted by World War I, during which time he served his country.

-Gridiron Heroics: Halfback Havoc with the Giants

After serving in World War I, he enrolled at Penn State University in 1919. He earned varsity letters in baseball, football, and basketball. The Nittany Lions could find outstanding rushers even a century ago. They unleashed Harry Robb, Pia Way, Glenn Killinger, Joe Lightner, "Light Horse Harry" Wilson, and Haines in just three seasons. Killinger and Way made Walter Camp All­-American teams and various qualified selectors all prominently recognized the others. They all had legendary plays long remembered by State College faithful, but by far, the most spectacular was by Haines. On October 30, 1920, Hinkey broke loose for two 90-yard touchdown runs against arch-rival Penn in a 28-7 State victory.

Hinkey's resume boasts a unique double championship in professional sports. However, some might argue it could be even more impressive if we could credit him with a collegiate national championship. While Penn State's 1920 team went undefeated, two ties blemish their perfect record. Since there was no official system to crown a national champion in college football before 1936, the University of California (with their perfect 10-0 record and Rose Bowl victory) and their star player, Brick Muller, are more frequently recognized as the unofficial "1920 national champions."

Despite all that, Hinkey was considered an even more promising baseball prospect, being recognized as a two-time college All-American on the diamond.

-Baseball Brilliance: A Diamond Gem

Hinkey was a gifted baseball player, and in his youth, the concentration on hardball was more prevalent. However, Haines' talents were more impressive on the gridiron. While football was his primary focus, he carved out a successful career in the minor leagues for teams like the Harrisburg Senators and the Newark Bears after the War. He consistently displayed impressive batting averages and showcased his well-rounded skills, including strong defense and base-stealing prowess. Eventually, he reached the major leagues briefly in the Sun as his minor accomplishments solidified his reputation as a multi-sport athlete of exceptional ability.

In 1923, Haines was on the New York Yankees roster alongside Babe Ruth, Wally Pippin, Waite Hoyt, Bob Meusel, and another rookie named Lou Gehrig. Hinkey played in 28 games that season, mainly as a pinch hitter for the Yanks. His MLB career stands officially at four hits on 25 at-bats for a .276 On-Base percentage, 3 RBIs, and three stolen bases.

The Yankees faced the cross-town New York Giants of baseball in the 1923 World Series. In game 2, Haines scored a run in his one at-bat to help the Yanks win 4-2 and even the Series. The Bronx Nine took the World Series 4-2 over their rivals.

- Football Glory Calls

After baseball, he took off again on the Eastern PA gridiron. In late 1921, Haines played at least six games for the Philadelphia Quakers, scoring two touchdowns against the visiting Canton Bulldogs in a December exhibition. In 1923, he helped the Frankford Yellow Jackets win several games, and in 1924, he played regularly with Shenandoah in the Anthracite League.

The brand of football on that side of the Keystone State during that era is considered to be superior to the NFL play of the same time. This competition was a brilliant training ground for Hinkey, as his speed and agility in the open field were lethal for opponents.

-New York Comes Calling for a Leader

When Tim Mara had Harry March assemble a roster of players to compete in the Giant's inaugural season of 1925, Hinkey signed on and quickly established himself as a star halfback.

The early season was rough on the first-year team, but on November 1, the Giants won their first NFL game, a 19-0 victory over Cleveland. Haines scored twice, once on a rare pass-receiving play. They lost only twice more that year, both to the Chicago Bears and their new toy Red Grange.

One of the victories was due to intelligent football played by Hinkey. New York's win over the Providence Steamroller was primarily due to Haines deliberately taking a safety and setting up a free kick to preserve a Giant narrow lead.

Hinkey Haines was a legendary running back for the New York Giants, renowned for his blazing speed. His coach, Bob Folwell, considered him the fastest player he had ever seen in his two decades of coaching. Haines' talents would be even more appreciated in the modern pass-heavy NFL, where his speed would likely make him a star wide receiver. Even in his era, Haines excelled at receiving touchdowns and was a dangerous threat on punt and kickoff returns.

-Haines 1926 Giants Campaign

1926 was a breakout year for Haines. He led the Giants to several critical victories with impressive passing and rushing performances. Despite his efforts, the Giants fell short of the championship due to a rough start to the season.

-He passed for the winning touchdown in one game and was responsible for three touchdowns in another versus Providence.

-Against the Duluth Eskimos, Ernie Nevers' two T.D.s against the Giants were canceled out by Haines' 30-yard dash for the end zone, which gave New York the game.

-Against the Chicago Cardinals, scampered 75 yards out running defenders in a race for the goal line and later 40 yards with a pass to give the Giants a pair of scores to lead them to victory.

Despite these fears by Haines, New York fell short of the best NFL record and the title that went with it.

-Road to the Title

1927 was the year everything came together, with the climax being a critical November game against the Chicago Bears. It was a scoreless tie at the Intermission, but the Bears were pressing and had momentum. The following excerpt comes from the PFRA Coffin Corner post in 1982 titled Hinkey Haines by C.C. Staph.

Steve Owen described it thus: "Haines called one of the most brilliant plays I ever seen to win for us. He stage-managed it perfectly.

"The Bears had plodded downfield to our one-yard line, where we held them. Haines signaled for punt formation. The Bears dropped two men back to mid-field and jammed nine on the line.

"We called signals in the open in those days, and Haines yelled to Mule Wilson, our punter, to be careful not to step beyond the end line for safety. He asked that a towel be brought out to wipe the ball because there was a patch of mud here and there on the field.

Haines completely fooled the Bears. When the ball was snapped, he dropped back a few yards to receive it. He threw over the line to Chuck Corgan, an end who used to play second base for the Dodgers, and Chuck went to the Bears' 40-yard line.

In the second half, the Giants scored twice for a 13-7 victory.

A week later, Hinkey ran 80 yards for a touchdown to lead a wrap-up win over Red Grange and his Yankee team, giving N.Y. a lock on the best record in the League and within the NFL Championship.

His elusiveness and playmaking ability made him a fan favorite and vital to the Giants' game's iconic 1927 season.

His football skills caught the attention of the New York Giants, a professional team in the nascent National Football League (NFL). Haines joined the Giants in 1925 and quickly became a star halfback. He was known for his speed, agility, and elusiveness, becoming a fan favorite and a key contributor to the team's success.

During his time with the Giants, Haines also served as their offensive coach, demonstrating his understanding of the game and leadership potential.

Later Years: Legacy and Impact

After retiring from professional sports, Haines remained connected to athletics. He became an NFL official, ensuring fair play on the field he once dominated. He also transitioned into acting and directing for the Little Theater in the Philadelphia area, displaying his artistic talents and leadership qualities beyond sports. Hinkey Haines passed away in 1979, leaving a legacy as a multi-sport star. His achievements in both football and baseball showcase the dedication and athleticism required to excel at the highest levels. He serves as a reminder of a bygone era in sports where multi-sport athletes were more common and exceptional talent could flourish across multiple disciplines.

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LaVern "Lavvie" Dilweg wasn't your typical football player. A true renaissance athlete, Dilweg excelled in not just one, but three sports during his college years at Marquette University. Yet, it's on the gridiron where he carved his niche in American football history, becoming a standout player and an early contributor to the fledgling NFL.

Born and raised in Milwaukee, Dilweg's athletic prowess manifested early. He dominated the local high school scene before heading to Marquette, where he thrived as a three-sport athlete. As a center on the basketball team and a shot putter on the track team, Dilweg displayed his versatility and strength. However, it was on the football field where his talents truly shone.

Playing end for the Marquette Golden Avalanche under head coach Frank Murray, Dilweg earned All-American honors. His dominance on the field contributed to the Golden Avalanche's impressive record of 28-4-1 during his four years. This success culminated in an invitation to play in the inaugural East-West Shrine Game in San Francisco in 1925, a prestigious event showcasing the nation's top college football players.

Dilweg's college career intersected with the early years of the National Football League (NFL). While still enrolled at Marquette's law school, he dipped his toes into professional football with the Milwaukee Badgers in 1926. Unfortunately, the Badgers folded before the season's end. However, Dilweg's talent wasn't lost on another historic franchise – the Green Bay Packers.

In 1927, Dilweg signed with the Packers, embarking on a professional career that would last through the 1934 season. This period was a time of immense growth for the NFL, and Dilweg played a part in shaping its early identity. Balancing his legal career with his gridiron duties, Dilweg exemplified the dedication and versatility required of athletes in the league's nascent years.

Lavvie Dilweg's story is a testament to the spirit of early American football. He wasn't just a talented player; he was a multi-sport athlete who embodied the athletic ideal of his era. His contributions to the Green Bay Packers during a crucial period of growth for the NFL solidify his place as a pioneer who helped pave the way for the sport we know today.

-Transcript of Ken Crippen's Chat About Dilweg

And you look at someone like a Laverne Dilweg and it's just inexplicable to me how he can't become a finalist, you know, he, you'll see them in the, in the, um, centennial class where he was part of the top 20, but then never made it beyond that. And then, you know, it was never really been touched since then. Al Wister, he's getting close, but he's not making it. These are guys who dominated their positions. I mean, Dillwig was the second-best end in the pre-modern era. How can you not be considered if you're number two behind one of the greatest of all time in Don Hutson? You have somebody that, you know, Ken Riley, you know, we brought his name up earlier, so I don't want to keep picking on him, but doesn't have the all pros, doesn't have the Pro Bowls or anything like that. They used interceptions while he had 64 interceptions in his career. He never led the league in interceptions. He was in the top five once in interceptions. If you're a Hall of Famer, you only make top five and interceptions once in a 16-year career. There are times he didn't even lead his own team in interceptions, but yet that was the criteria for him getting in. Laverne Dillwig had 27 interceptions from a defensive end position. You look at the other pre-modern era ends that are in the Hall of Fame. They all have single digits in interceptions. Dillwig had 27. The only other end that had more was Hudson, but he played safety. So you're going to have more opportunities. You're going to be able to have more interceptions, and it's only three more than Dillwig had. He led, you know, Dilweg led the league in yards, touchdowns. That's what an end does, but you look at it, and you know, eight-time All-Pro, six-time consecutive consensus All-Pro, four-time consecutive unanimous All-Pro, all-decade team. The media members of the day said he was by far the best end of his time, but yet you look at the media members today and they're like, yeah, it doesn't matter.

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The Heisman name is synonymous with college football mainly because of the award that is handed out each year to the top college football player.

The prestige of the honor of being a Heisman winner is off of the charts. Many do not know who the famous trophy is in the memorial of Coach John Heisman.

Erie News Now's John Last, on his weekly The Last Owrd segment, traveled to the place where Heisman learned to play the game, Titusville, Pennsylvania.

John Heisman's formative years in Titusville, Pennsylvania, played a crucial role in shaping the man who would later become a legendary football coach and the namesake of the prestigious Heisman Trophy. Here's a summary of his upbringing:

Early Life:

Born in 1869 in Cleveland, Ohio, Heisman moved to Titusville with his family when he was young.
Titusville was a bustling oil boomtown, exposing Heisman to the grit and determination of early American industrialism.

He excelled in both academics and athletics, becoming valedictorian of his high school class and participating in baseball, gymnastics, and football.

Athletic Prowess:

Despite his smaller stature (5'8"), Heisman displayed natural athletic talent and leadership qualities.
He played quarterback, halfback, and even placekicker for his high school football team.
He earned the nickname "Little Heis" due to his athleticism and intelligence.

Academic Focus:

Equally passionate about academics, Heisman delivered the graduation speech titled "The Dramatist as Sermonizer," showcasing his eloquence and intellectual curiosity.

He pursued a law degree at the University of Pennsylvania, eventually practicing law briefly before returning to athletics as a coach.
Titusville's Influence:

The competitive environment of Titusville and the emphasis on hard work likely instilled in Heisman the drive and ambition he later displayed in his coaching career.

His early athletic experiences in Titusville may have sparked his passion for football and his innovative approach to the game.
Legacy:

While his time in Titusville may not be the sole factor in his success, it undeniably laid the foundation for his future achievements.

Heisman's story offers an inspiring example of how a small-town upbringing can shape a future legend, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, dedication, and intellectual curiosity.

In conclusion, John Heisman's childhood in Titusville, Pennsylvania, provided the springboard for his remarkable journey, shaping him into the innovative coach and iconic figure he became.