Football History

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Football fans, history buffs, and anyone who appreciates a story that breaks boundaries – this episode is for you! Today, we delve into the life and legacy of a true pioneer, Duke Slater, with the author who meticulously documented his remarkable journey: Neal Rosendaal.

Neal Rosendaal, a Hawkeye fanatic and renowned sports historian, has penned a fascinating biography titled "Duke Slater: Pioneering Black NFL Player and Judge." This book doesn't just chronicle Slater's athletic achievements, but also sheds light on his groundbreaking role as the first African-American lineman in the NFL.

Get ready to be transported back to a time when racial barriers were high, but Duke Slater's talent and determination soared even higher. We'll discuss Slater's rise to football stardom at the University of Iowa, his trailblazing stint in the fledgling NFL, and his remarkable post-football career as a lawyer and judge.

Neal Rosendaal will join us to share his insights into researching this legendary figure. We'll uncover the challenges Slater faced, the impact he had on the sport, and the lasting legacy he left behind. So, buckle up and prepare to be inspired by the story of Duke Slater – a gridiron giant and a true social justice pioneer.

You must check out Neal's webpages dedicated to Slater and other subjects the author has written about on Neal Rosendaal's DukeSlater.com.

-Transcript on Duke Slater book with Author Neal Rosendaal

Darin Hayes
Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the pig pen, your portal to positive football history. And we have a great episode in store for you. We have a great topic: the player Duke Slater, a very, very interesting figure in football history. And we have an author who's writing a book about him; Neal Rozendaal is his name. And we'll welcome you into the pig pen right now. Neil Rosenthal, welcome to the pig pen.

Neal Rozendaal
Hey, thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Darin Hayes
We really appreciate you taking the time to talk about some great football history, especially one man named Duke Slater, who was very important to that football history. But before we do that, I'd like to learn a little bit about you. What got you particularly interested in football and maybe in particular about Duke Slater?

Neal Rozendaal
Yeah, well, I'm a Hawkeye fan. I grew up in the state of Iowa and attended the University of Iowa. So, I've always loved the Hawkeyes. And I've loved sports history. That's something that has always sort of appealed to me. And that's why I love podcasts like this, because I really love delving into the history of the sport and kind of making it, especially for current fans, to kind of bring it to life, especially stories of people that they may not remember. Or it may have been before their time. And it's kind of interesting because I know you guys here do a lot of things. You're connected with this sports dispatch, and you do a lot with jersey numbers. Actually, the first book that I ever wrote, I co-authored a book called Hawkeye Greats by the Numbers. And basically, it mentioned the greatest Hawkeye football or men's basketball player by the jersey numbers they wore. So we picked the greatest Hawkeye football or men's basketball player that wore jersey number one, jersey number two, all the way up through jersey number 50. We selected what we considered to be the greatest Hawkeye football or men's basketball player to wear each specific jersey. And then, for that player, we wrote a short chapter about them. And that was the book. And Chapter 15 came along. The greatest Hawkeye player, a football player who wore jersey number 15 in our estimation, was Duke Slater. and I had been interested in Duke Slater for a while. I had heard about his story, and Duke Slater is one of these stories. When you hear a little bit about him, you just hear more and more and more stories. And I just became increasingly fascinated by this guy. And I was fortunate enough to write the chapter on Duke Slater for that book, Hawkeye Greats by the Numbers, but it was, he had one of these stories where I just said, you know what, I could write a whole book just about him. And as someone who's a writer, that's kind of a dangerous thing to say because it sort of becomes destiny in some sense. So, I wound up deciding to write a book about him. And I published his biography back in 2012. And, you know, one of the things about writing the book was he'd kind of been forgotten, he'd kind of been overlooked. And I wanted to get him more recognition; I wanted to kind of bring him back into the public eye. And I'm so thankful and grateful to be able to say that over the last decade, we have really elevated Duke Slater's legacy in the public consciousness. He's been honored in a number of ways, which have been really outstanding. And it's been great to see because I think more and more people have heard this story and learned about Duke Slater. And it's just an incredible story. So it was really an honor for me to tell.

Darin Hayes
Well, he is definitely a great player, and I had the honor and the privilege last year to be at the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the induction ceremonies I'm I'm from Western Pennsylvania, so there was, you know, a bunch of Steelers going in and you had two different years you had the covert your 2020 going in, and the year 2021 class going in, and Duke Slater I believe was part of that 2020 class going in at that time for the pro football fame so it was quite an honor to sit there, even though he wasn't present. You know, it was, it was a great honor to just have the legacy and have a chat and some of the things popping up on the screen, some scenes and pictures of him, and you know his presenter, so it was a great feeling there.

Neal Rozendaal
Yeah, it was actually one of the the best weekends I've had, honestly, because I actually and you know this because you were there, but because because of the way it was set up. So when I wrote the book on Duke Slater, one of my main goals was to try to lobby for him to get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And, of course, it's a lobby for someone to get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. It is the competition is so stiff that everybody wants to be in the Hall of Fame. And there are so many worthy people. And I just was lobbying for years to hopefully get that done. He was finally elected as part of that centennial class in 2020. And so here we were; he was going to get his long-awaited induction, and then COVID hit. And it came in or postponed it at least for a year. And what wound up happening was, and again, you know, this because you were there, as they had so many people being recognized in 2021 because they had the supersized centennial class, plus the 2021 class, two classes coming together, and one of them being particularly large, the way that they handled that was they had sort of induction ceremony, before the main induction ceremony, just for the guys who were going in posthumously. People like Duke Slater, who was deceased, were going in. They sort of had a special ceremony for them earlier, just so they could kind of, I guess, control the numbers in a lot of ways. So I was actually invited to that Hall of Fame ceremony that recognized the players who were going in posthumously, like Duke Slater. After writing the book, I was able to connect with Sandra Wilkins, who is Duke Slater's niece. She's still alive; she's still around. She also invited me to be a guest for the family for this Hall of Fame induction. And it was an incredible weekend. It was amazing to see him be honored in that way and to get his bust in Canton, Ohio, where he belongs, so that he can be there for all time. It was an amazing weekend and an amazing event. And it was really thrilling to be there, as it was sort of the culmination of almost a decade-long campaign that I had tried to put together to get him recognized in Canton. And to see it come to fruition was really, really meaningful.

Darin Hayes
Well, as the guy said, used to say on the A-Team, you got to love it when a plan comes together, and you're a great part of that, and we appreciate you preserving that football history, and I think everybody in the football community applauds you and everybody else that fought for getting Dukes later in there because he's definitely worthy of being there, that's for sure.

Neal Rozendaal
He definitely is, and you know, it's all about sort of preserving his legacy; you know, I think John Madden Uh was the one who said it in his induction speech like He always envisioned when the lights go down that all the busts sort of talk to each other, uh at night, you know Talked football and I just I always felt so strongly that duke slater needed to be part of that conversation He needed to have his voice there because what he went through is one of the greatest players In the nfl in the 1920s and to do it as as a black man and the first black lineman in the history of the nfl Um his was a voice that needed to be in that room when those lights go down, and now it is and it will be forever And I think as people come to visit Canton ohio a year from now ten years from now 50 years from now, They'll be able to see his bust there and be able to To say hey, who is he and learn more about him and discover his story? And that's an amazing thing that will be a preserve for history. I think that's just so so meaningful and wonderful

Darin Hayes
Yeah, absolutely. And I guess I apologize; I have not announced the name of the title of your book, and we're going to do it here a bunch of times. But the title of your book is Duke Slater, a Pioneering Black NFL player, and Neil Rosendaal as the author. So I'll make sure we mention that now. Why don't you let us know where that's available and where people can get it?

Neal Rozendaal
Absolutely. It was published by McFarland and company about ten years ago, so you can get it. I think there are some bookstores that carry it, but the best way to get it generally is online. Amazon, Barnes& Noble, or any online retailer can really get it for you. Or, of course, maybe the best way, from my personal viewpoint, if you want to do it this way, is to go to dukeslater.com, which is my website. And if you go to dukeslater.com, we'll take you to a page where you can order from the website directly from me and help me out a little bit more as an author. Honestly, however, you get the book; if you want to go out and get the book, however, you get the book, it is fine by me because I just want people to hear the story and learn more about this amazing guy.

Darin Hayes
But very well said. Well, why don't we go back to the beginnings of Duke Slater? We sort of jumped ahead and told everybody the outcome. He's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And we alluded to earlier, you know, Iowa. And that's how you became associated with him and gained a lot of interest in it. So why don't you tell us how what happened before he was at Iowa and got him involved in football?

Neal Rozendaal
Well, he actually was raised in Normal, Illinois, but he grew up on the south side of Chicago. He spent his childhood years there on the south side of Chicago. And he loved the sport of football from the very beginning, from being a young kid. And the interesting thing about it was he loved the tackle. He loved being aligned. And the thing was, whenever there was a neighborhood game going up, there was always a place for Duke Slater because there were always people who wanted to be the ball carriers. They wanted to carry the ball and, you know, catch the ball, do all that stuff. But they always needed alignment. So he always had a game, the ability to find a neighborhood game. That's where he learned the game of football was on the streets, on the south side of Chicago. His father, George Slater, was a strong influence in Duke Slater's life. George Slater was a minister and an AME minister. Actually, George Slater became the pastor and the head pastor at an AME church in Clinton, Iowa, when Duke Slater was 13 years old. That's what had Duke Slater relocate from the south side of Chicago to the state of Iowa and then to Clinton, Iowa. Clinton is a Mississippi River town. It's a little city on the shores of the Mississippi River, just on the Iowa side there. And that wound up being where Duke Slater attended high school. Being in the state of Iowa wound up leading him to the University of Iowa and on to his football fame. But that was sort of his upbringing. And his life, not only from a football perspective but obviously off the field. He made a real imprint on Duke Slater and raised him right. And he became an upstanding man and, of course, an amazing person.

Darin Hayes
Okay. And just to let the listeners know the time period that we're talking about, you know, Duke Slater was born in 1898. So this is early 20th century, early football, you know, putting in perspective, you know, the NFL doesn't start as the APFA until 1920. So this is really at the grassroots of football here, where he's playing even on the sand lots.

Neal Rozendaal
Yeah, a true pioneer in terms of, you know, the time period. He played three; he actually only played three seasons at Clinton High School from 1913 to 1915. He played at the University of Iowa just after World War I, which is your time period. To our knowledge, he was the third documented black player in the history of the Hawkeye football program. And even that was fairly unusual to be the third because most football programs, even up north, a number of football programs had not even had a black player by that point. So, he really was a pioneer for black players in a very early era of football. And he wound up becoming one of the most, honestly, without exaggeration, one of the most dominant football players that college football had ever seen in his career. And he just carried that into the NFL.

Darin Hayes
And I'm assuming that this is the back of single-platoon football. So he's playing both sides of the line, offense and defense.

Neal Rozendaal
Duke Slater was actually known, well, particularly in the NFL, for playing all 60 minutes of the game. He'd play offense, defense, special teams; he would run punts down, he would, you know, he blocked for the, for the kickoff team, you know, for the kick returners, he, he would never leave the fields for his time in Rock Island. And he, I think, had played all 60 minutes, which was not unheard of in those days, but he would play all 60 minutes of every game for an entire season. And then he did that season after season for almost every game that he played in Rock Island for years and years in a row. And that was particularly unusual; it wasn't unusual to play all 60 minutes, but to do it game after game, season after season, was highly unusual. And he was a tackle. He played offensive tackle while on offense, and then on defense, he played defensive end. So he was someone who, obviously, was both an offensive tackle and a defensive end, someone who had a very strong impact on the game. Although, again, not as someone who didn't carry the ball, maybe someone who might be overlooked by some, but he had a dramatic impact on the game from those positions and was just a phenomenal two-way player.

Darin Hayes
Well, you know that, especially the era and the positions that he's playing in to play every minute of every game season upon season; I mean, that is quite a testament to the guy must have been one tough Ombre to be able to take that. It was a lot more brutal than the football that we know today. Even, you know, by today's standards, it's pretty brutal.

Neal Rozendaal
Well, and also you imagine the fact that as a black player, and there weren't a ton of documented stories about this, but you know, as a black player, that he was subject to cheap shots, late hits, you know, all those kinds of things. So yes, to be able to play and to stay in there and to do it game after game, season after season, was incredible. And it's funny because, you know, I tell this story, and I mentioned how his father had such a huge influence on him. His, Duke Slater, only played three seasons of high school football. The reason for that was his father did not want him to play football. His father thought that football was a game for rough necks, and his father was legitimately afraid that he'd be seriously hurt. And, you know, and this was an era where people were dying on the football field. So, it wasn't an ill-founded sort of fear that his father had. Well, his father eventually relented and allowed him to play, but he did so by forcing Duke Slater to promise that he would take every precaution to not get hurt. And it's interesting to, you know, hear that what happened was in his high school days, he would come home beat up, sore, whatever else. Duke Slater worked very hard to conceal his injuries. Basically, if he had a bump or a bruise or a limp or whatever else, he would hide it from his father because he didn't want his father to become so worried about the physical nature of the game that he would sort of pull Duke Slater from the sport. He didn't want his dad to essentially say, okay, you're done because you're gonna get hurt after. So Slater, you know, Duke Slater kind of became ingrained with him to, you know, hide his injuries. He continued that even through college and even at the pro level. And it almost added this sort of aura to him of being invincible, of like being impervious to pain. Like people would be like, you can't hurt him, you can't shake him, you can't rattle him. You know, it was, he was one of those guys where a lot of guys if they were shaken up, they would kind of take a time out, you know, just not an official time out, but just sort of a time out to catch their breath on the field and whatever. And it was known that the game rarely stopped because Duke Slater was hurt because it was one of these guys who, you know, almost put on this aura, like, I can't be hurt. And, you know, that was something that I think helped fuel him and kind of added this sort of, you know, mythology to almost the way that Duke Slater played the game that was really impressive, and it's interesting to look back on now, you know, that's how regarded he was in that day.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, uh, it's making me a little bit embarrassed. I get up every morning and complain about, you know, a sore elbow or something. This guy's, you know, getting a snot kicked out of him and, and, you know, pounding away at some other big, big guy for, you know, and they're playing more than one game a week, uh, sometimes, especially when he was at rock Island. And, you know, just to take that punishment and to hide it from people, especially if your father and, uh, keep on playing, that's a, wow. That's quite a testament to who he is. So amazing. Thank you for sharing that with us. Now let's go back into his Iowa, uh, team. So he's, he's, did he play all four years at Iowa?

Neal Rozendaal
He played four years at Iowa because his first season in 1918 was at the height of World War I. And eligibility rules were suspended. So he was actually allowed to play that season and then allowed to play the three seasons that players typically got during those days. He played in the 1918 season, and it was known that that wouldn't count against him. So, he was actually able to play for four years. He was a first-team All-American in, well, he was a. Actually, he was an -American in, he was a second-team All-American in 1919, his sophomore season. He was one of the first black players in the history of college football to name, to be named an All-American and to earn All-American honors. I believe he was something like the sixth black player to ever earn All-American honors behind guys like Paul Robeson, Fritz Pollard, and others like that. But then, in 1921, that was really the year that shot him to collegiate fame. He was a rock on Iowa's 1921 team, which might be the greatest team in the history of the University of Iowa football program. The Hawkeyes went undefeated, untied. In fact, they never trailed at any point in the season. They never trailed an opponent. They won the outright Big 10 championship for the first time in school history. And they have a legitimate claim for the mythical national championship of that year. Of course, national titles back then were well open to dispute, very much a mythical national championship. However, the University of Iowa has as good a claim as any school to the mythical national championship of the 1921 football season. The marquee victory for Iowa in 1921 was a victory over Notre Dame, a non-conference victory over Notre Dame. Iowa beat Notre Dame 10 to seven. It snapped a 20-game winning streak for Notre Dame that had lasted three years. Notre Dame hadn't lost a football game in three years. They lost that one. And what's fascinating about that is that Notre Dame's head coach was Newt Rockne. And Newt Rockne said later in the season, he said, we had heard about the great strength of Duke Slater, and knowing his great strength, we decided to throw three guys at him on any given play. We'd send three guys after Duke Slater. He's like, sometimes Newt Rockne said this. And of the quote, he said, sometimes we were able to slow him down, but more often than not, he just ripped wide holes in our line that allowed the fullbacks to pick up yards and eventually Iowa to pick up the 10 to seven upset over Notre Dame. It was really notable because Duke Slater was really the first black player in the history of college football to play a prominent role on a team that could be considered a mythical national championship contender. Duke Slater had an incredible legacy in football. When the College Football Hall of Fame opened in 1951, Duke Slater was the only black player in the inaugural class. He was the first black player inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame. The only black player elected when it opened in 1951. And even for years after, there were people who selected an all-time college football team in 1946. They did a poll, and they polled over 200 sports writers. And they said, pick your best 11, the 11 players who would be on the all-time college football team. And they'd select players like Jim Thorpe and other players like Ernie Nevers. Duke Slater was one of the individuals selected for the all-time college football team in 1946. That's the sort of esteem and acclaim he was held in for his college career. Being obviously so successful in college was what opened the door for him to go into the NFL, which obviously was not open to very many black players at that time. However, Duke Slater's widespread fame for his collegiate career is really what helped launch his NFL career. And he went on from there.

Darin Hayes
Well, that's a great, great stories and great memories to have of a great player at Iowa. So it was his first team in the, the what's now NFL rock Island. Was that his first team?

Neal Rozendaal
Yes, it was the Rock Island Independence, and they were an NFL team that was located in Rock Island, Illinois, which is just on the other side of the Mississippi River from Iowa. So, it's fairly close to Iowa. He played five seasons with the Rock Island Independence. It's, you know, he actually, on October 1st of this year, was the 100th anniversary of Duke Slater's debut in the NFL. When Duke Slater made his debut in the NFL, he was the first black lineman in the history of the National Football League. He made his debut on October 1st, 1922. The Rock Island Independence played the Green Bay Packers in that game. And Duke helped lead Rock Island to an upset of the Packers. When he broke through on Green Bay's final drive of the game, he broke through twice and twice swatted down Green Bay passes from Packers quarterback Curly Lamba. He swatted the passes down twice, and he helped force the Packers to punt. And the Rock Island Independence held on for 1913, I believe, victory in that game. But that was when he made his debut with Rock Island and was one of the greatest players in the history of that franchise, which, of course, did not last. They, but they're, they're one of the great teams of the 1920s when you think of early era NFL. But yeah, that's how he got his start. And then he spent his final five, five-plus years of his career with the Chicago Cardinals, who, of course, are now known as the Arizona Cardinals. But that's how he started his career. And I want to mention, too, what's interesting about his time in Rock Island was you mentioned his work ethic. One of the things that's amazing about Duke Slater is his work ethic. He graduated from the University of Iowa, and then he enrolled at the University of Iowa Law School. One of the things he would do was he would attend the University of Iowa College of Law; he'd attend law classes on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday early in the week. And when he was done with that, then he'd make the trek out to Rock Island, which is in the Quad Cities, about an hour's drive away today, probably a little longer back in those days. But he'd go out to Rock Island, and then he practiced with the Rock Island independence for a few days, and then play an NFL game on Sunday. And on a Monday, he'd be right back in Iowa City for first law classes again. And, you know, you think about a guy like that, who's, you know, attending law classes and going to NFL games. And, you know, you mentioned it, it's like, some days that, you know, I have a hard time getting motivated to get out of bed in the morning. Here's a guy who's in the NFL and in law school. At the same time, his work ethic is incredible. And that's definitely a big part of his story and a big part of his legacy, is just that he was someone who was always working extremely hard to, you know, not only for himself, but also to, you know, to give people a good impression of his family, and to stand up for his race, and to stand up for, you know, what black athletes could do in that era, and what black athletes could be, and set a good example for the guys that followed. And yeah, again, he had some amazing days on Rock Island. And yep, that's where you got to start.

Darin Hayes
Well, that's really inspirational to hear that, and it had to be an inspiration to, to younger people, you know, not only of African-American descent but even anybody that heard his story where they had to, you know, you're working real hard, you're playing football and you're going to school and making that journey. That's a lot of, a lot to do. That's pretty good, good role model to be. So, okay. So he, uh, with Rock Island, he moved to the Cardinals, as you said. And he had some, uh, good success with the Cardinals, too.

Neal Rozendaal
Oh, absolutely. Well, he had some great moments with Rock Island. I always tell the story that his best season with Rock Island Independents was in 1924. Rock Island normally was not really much of a factor in the NFL. But in 1924, after the first month of the season, Rock Island was actually undefeated and on top of the NFL was standing. And then Rock Island had a game down in Kansas City against an expansion team called the Kansas City Blues. And because it was in Kansas City, Duke Slater was not allowed to play. They had a gentleman's agreement that black players did not play in NFL games in the state of Missouri, which was a state that was very hostile toward African Americans. And so Duke Slater sat out that game. Rock Island lost that game despite the fact that 10 of their 11 starters were in that game that had started the previous games. The only starter who had to sit that game out was Duke Slater, by rule. And Rock Island suffered an upset loss in that game. A few weeks later, Kansas City had to go to Rock Island and had a return match in Rock Island, Illinois. Duke Slater was allowed to play because the game was played on Rock Island. And he was a dominant force for them again in that game. It's a really meaningful game. And Rock Island wound up shutting Kansas City out 17 to nothing. But unfortunately, the damage was done. Rock Island ended the year with two losses, which was one more than the NFL champion Canton Bulldogs that year. So that was the one thing that kept him out. And what I tell people is, Duke Slater, in a 10-year NFL career, we talked about how durable he was. The only game he missed in a 10-year NFL career was that game. It was not due to injury. It was not because he was sidelined by rule but because of that gentleman's agreement that existed back then. And Duke Slater wound up, ironically enough, wound up playing 99 professional football games in the NFL and AFL combined. He was one game short of playing 100 football games in his pro football career. And it was because of the one game that they made him sit out. So, so yeah, he had some great moments on Rock Island. He was a perennial all-pro in Rock Island. Well, the Rock Island franchise actually folded after the 1926 season. Duke Slater was quickly signed by the Chicago Cardinals for a couple of games that season, beginning full-time in 1927. And the Chicago Cardinals, for listeners who don't know or don't remember, you know, back in the day, the Chicago Cardinals were the other NFL team in Chicago alongside the Chicago Bears. And the Bears and Cardinals had a Cubs white Sox type of hold on pro football. The Bears were on the north side. The Bears were like the Cubs. They were on the north side, kind of white collar, you know, maybe a little more affluent. And then, like the White Sox, the Chicago Cardinals were the south side, you know, they were blue-collar, a little scruffier, a little, you know, a little more hard hat. The other thing about that was the south side of Chicago; there was a huge black metropolis. And in fact, that was where Duke Slater had grown up; he'd grown up on the south side of Chicago. So, the Chicago Cardinals signed Duke Slater, and Duke was able to return to the city where he grew up, the city where he had been raised. And Chicago Cardinals loved it because now they had a box office draw, where a lot of the black football fans, a lot of those fans in that black metropolis, those black citizens on the south side of Chicago, they came to Cardinals games because they wanted to see one of their own, they wanted to see Duke Slater on the line playing for the Cardinals. And so it worked out sort of both ways. The Cardinals have a really good player, Duke Slater, who got to go to his old hometown. And the Cardinals got a box office draw that appealed to the black football fans there. So it kind of worked all around. That's where Duke Slater finished out his career in the final few years, and he had tremendous success there, too.

Darin Hayes
Wow, that's great to have a hometown hero coming in and playing for you. So I had to be a great draw, like you said, so tremendous. And it had to be good for him, too. I had to, you know, you're a little bit long in a tooth coming in there. And maybe that gives you a little bit of a burst of energy. You have some people that, you know, are in the stands and really cheering for you because they helped, uh, Develop you into the player you are. So that's great stuff. Okay. So, God is finishing up law school already when he finished that up with Rock Island, or do you still continue that when he's with the Cardinals?

Neal Rozendaal
Yeah, he still continued with when he was with the Cardinals. He actually graduated from the University of Iowa College of Law in 1928. And I, you know, I want to mention, too, with his football playing in Chicago. What's really incredible about him is that for most of the late 1920s, he was the only black player in the entire NFL. There were several black players in the NFL in the early to mid-1920s. And then, after 1926, the owners in the NFL were kind of trying to follow baseball's lead and kind of knock black players out of the league. In 1927, every single black player in the league. There were six black players in pro football in 1926. In 1927, all of them had left pro football except for Duke Slater. Duke Slater was the only black player in the NFL in 1927. A large part of that was the fact that Duke Slater had been at Alpro for the last four years. He had been one of the best, not only black players but also one of the best players, period, and one of the best linemen in football. And, you know, he was, you know, there was a quote in the book, biography that I wrote on Duke Slater, where they said, if if if owners had blackballed Duke Slater, fans would have questioned not only the owner's integrity but also their sanity because Duke Slater was so good. He was one of those guys that they couldn't blackball. Duke actually lobbied for the Chicago Cardinals to sign another black player. The Cardinals signed another black player named Harold Bradley, who was the second black lineman in NFL history. He played two games alongside Duke Slater in 1928 before Harold Bradley was cut. However, aside from those two games by Harold Bradley in 1928, Duke Slater was the only black player in the NFL from 1927 through 1929. And so Duke Slater was the only black player in the NFL in 1927 and 1929. And yet he was in Alpro both seasons. So that tells you how good he was while he was sort of. He really held the door open. He kept a ban on black players from coming down. It would have come down in 1927 if he hadn't held the door open, but he kept the door open for other black players sent to the league. And he kept a ban from coming down. A ban on black players eventually did come down in the NFL, but not until two years after Duke Slater retired. But he had some great seasons with the Chicago Cardinals. His best-known claim to fame is probably from 1929. On Thanksgiving Day, 1929, Ernie Nevers of the Chicago Cardinals helped the Cardinals beat the Crosstown Chicago Bears 40 to six. And Ernie Nevers scored all 40 points. It is a single season, or, excuse me, a single-game scoring record in NFL history. Most points in a single game were scored by any player, and 40 points were scored by Ernie Nevers in that game. It's a record that stood for what is it, 90 years now. Duke Slater played the entire game. He's the only Cardinal lineman to play all 60 minutes of the game. And a number of the post-game accounts credited Duke Slater with being the man who kept the bare front wobbly, as they said. A lot of Nevers' games came behind Duke Slater's blocking. And that was probably maybe his single greatest game or single greatest moment in the NFL. But he played ten seasons and then retired from the NFL. He then used his law degree to start sort of the next chapter of his professional life. But he had some incredible moments. And again, he retired as a seven-time all-pro, having played ten seasons. He had one of the longest careers in NFL history at the time of his retirement and was really truly one of the great players in the 1920s NFL.

Darin Hayes
Well, that's, uh, has quite a lot of accolades and, uh, definitely deserves to be in the pro football hall.

Neal Rozendaal
One of the things, but I'll say this, one of the things that I'm really excited about is that the University of Iowa, my alma mater, which is kind of how I came into Duke Slayer's story, they've done a tremendous job recognizing him and honoring him at the University of Iowa. In 2019, they decided to put a relief of him, a carver relief of him, on the side of the stadium. And it's several feet wide, I think maybe 10 feet wide. It's a huge relief, and it depicts Duke Slater blocking three Notre Dame men in that game against Notre Dame in 1921. And then maybe his greatest honor from the University of Iowa came a couple of years later. Just last year, the University of Iowa named their field at Kinnick Stadium Duke Slater Field after Duke Slater. And now, if you watch Hawkeye football games on television, you will see emblazoned on the field at Kinnick Stadium, and you'll see Duke Slater Field on the field at Kinnick Stadium where the Hawkeyes play football. And it's just a tremendous honor, a collegiate honor for him. And so it's really, I think, given him a lot of exposure for Big 10 fans who, if you watch a Hawkeye football game at the University of Iowa, you'll see on television, you'll see Duke Slater Field on the field, and it's caused more than one person to say, who's Duke Slater, who's that? And it's been a great opportunity for people to learn his story that way, too. So again, the honors that he's been receiving over the past five or ten years have been just so exciting to me personally. And again, it was just so worthwhile for a man with his achievements.

Darin Hayes
Well, that's, that's great. And just to think you're, you're a part of that, of helping people recognize that legacy, so, uh, you know, speaking of that, let's, uh, get the opportunity to let's get and tell the name of your book and where people can pick it up at.

Neal Rozendaal
Yeah, again, you said it's Duke Slater, a pioneering black NFL player and judge, I believe. It's published by McFarland and Company. They picked the subtitle, which throws a lot in there at you, but it's obviously all worthwhile. Just search for Duke Slater, and you'll find the book. You can find it on Amazon, Barnes& Noble, or my website. I'd love it if you came and visited my website and bought it off there. But it's dukeslater.com. Just type in dukeslater.com, and it'll get you there. You'll find all the information on Duke Slater and a way to purchase the book. And again, just an amazing guy. Again, I've talked with you this whole time, and I feel like I threw a lot of information in there. There are just so many facets of his life and so much you could talk about with the amazing man that he is, and it's just a thrill to tell his story. There's just so much to say about this incredible guy, and I love it when people have an opportunity to learn more about him because he's really someone who lived a life that's very much worth remembering.

Darin Hayes
Well, that is very well said, and folks, we will have the information if you're in a car and I don't have a writing utensil on you in the show notes of this podcast and on pigskin dispatch .com with the corresponding posts that we're going to have on there, we will have Neil's website to get you connected to him and to his book and again, he's, he's touched a lot of the highlights of Duke Slater's career, but there's a lot of goodies inside there that you really enjoy and appreciate this man that played football almost a hundred years ago. So, uh, Neil Rosendaal, thank you very much for joining us and spending time and sharing this great story about Duke Slater.

Neal Rozendaal
No, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it and really appreciated it.

---

In the leather-helmeted days of yore, football jerseys were a canvas of clean lines and bold colors, proudly displaying a team's name or city across the chest. This is the untold story of how logos, once relegated to the shadows, muscled their way onto the gridiron, forever changing the face of the beautiful game. We'll delve into the fierce competition between sportswear giants, the cultural shift that embraced branding, and the trailblazing teams who dared to be different. Buckle up, football fans, as we explore the fascinating origin story of the logos that existed on jerseys before players' numbers did.

Timothy P Brown takes us on his research of football jerseys with embarrassment and who did it first. From Furman to Lafayette and points in between, we learn about uniform decor transformation.

-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown Jerseys with Emblems

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin. He's at pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history.

Welcome to Tuesday and a research journey to footballarchaeology.com and Timothy P. Brown. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen. Darren, thank you.

Looking forward to chatting, as always. It should be. This is, I think, actually a pretty fun one. Not that others aren't.

But, you know, this one's just particularly fun. Yeah, this is this is a neat one because we get to talk about uniform adornment. Your tidbit back in the middle of May was titled Football Jerseys with Emblems.

So this is a fascinating spectacle of football that we love colors and seeing teams with great designs on their uniforms. So this may be the start of it. Yeah.

You know, well, the weird thing is I was looking at a. Yeah, I was running through some social media that I happened to see a guy wearing a jersey from the 90s, and it may have been an arena team; it could have been, you know, whatever, some off league. But anyway, they had a big dog on the jersey, and the number was smaller. But anyway, I hadn't seen anything like that for quite some time.

So this one is about, like, you know, if you think about it. Um. You know, hockey, especially, you know, they've got jerseys on their sweaters, right? They're not jerseys.

They've got emblems on the sweaters, the red wings. You know, I live in the Detroit area. They got the wheel and the wing.

Right. And everybody else has some kind of a, even if it's just a wordmark or the Blackhawks, whomever, you know, they've got they got a big emblem. And even baseball has some.

Basketball has a pretty good number of emblems. You know, a lot of times it's just, you know, the wordmark or something like that. But it's not unusual.

Like San Francisco's, you know, Golden State has had, you know, their the Golden Gate Bridge and things like that on their jerseys. But football doesn't typically have not had that. So, you know, I was trying to figure out, OK, when they had them and, you know, kind of why and, you know, why don't they anymore, those kinds of things? And so, you know, football had.

So, you know, in the beginning, a lot of times football teams wore jerseys with the like the main letter, like why, if you were playing for Yale or an H, if you played for Harvard or they'd have smaller, you know, the smaller combination of letters like Slippery Rock Normal School might have S.R. and S. You know, so I mean, there's if you look at old time pictures, you see even on like the canvas jackets and the canvas vest, you see those kinds of initials. But oftentimes, they were just plain. And even when, you know, the first numbers were worn on the backs of jerseys in 1905.

And it took a long time, took a couple of decades, really, for teams to start wearing numbers on the front of their jerseys. So in the meantime, you end up having, you know, you had the onset in mid-teens. You had the onset of, you know, stickum cloth or friction strips.

I mean, there are different names for it. But, you know, if you think about, you know, almost any picture of red grains, you see, you know, vertical stripes on his jersey. And he probably has stripes on the inside of his arms.

And that was kind of treated leather that, you know, the belief was that it held running backs, in particular, you know, hold on to the ball. And when those first came out, a lot of times, you're just big ovals or even squares on the front of the jerseys. But they, you know, they had a functional use, but then people kind of got fancy with them, and they started creating designs, and they started putting them on the linemen, too, who sometimes carried the ball.

But, you know, for the most part, did not. And became quite a laundering nightmare, I'm sure, after the game, trying to clean up. Yeah, I don't know how the heck they did it sometimes, you know.

Probably didn't wash them is probably what they did. Yeah. Well, in fact, then they didn't, you know, I mean, hardly anybody wore white.

But here and there, you know, there were teams that did. But how they got that stuff clean, I don't know. But so then, you know, they kind of started having taken some artistic license.

And so often it was like teams that were like their main letter, their name, their school started with what I'll just call a straight a straight letter, meaning a K and an L, a Y. So it's just a series of straight lines. And then they'd incorporate that letter into the friction strip pattern, you know, and so there are some of them that are actually pretty cool looking. But, they still weren't like emblems in the way that's like hockey, you know, a sweater might have.

But then the earliest one I found was Furman in 1925 had a bullseye on there. You know, I think it had three rings in it. So folks, you have to see go to the show notes and go to the link of Tim's story on this on the tidbit.

And you'll see this great image of the Furman team from 1925 that he's describing. You'll see exactly what he talks about. These uniforms are really great.

I'm looking at it right now. It's looks like a certain red department store would be very pleased with these jerseys that make a commercial out of this. Although it was purple and white.

So. Oh, OK. And actually, somehow, they got ahold of one of those things.

So their their archives has one of those original jerseys. You know, really cool looking. So now why Furman had a target on their jerseys? I don't know, but.

Maybe it will help the quarterback with the forward pass downfield. Well, all the linemen had it, too. The next one I found was Bucknell, which is actually kind of interesting. It was like Bucknell in 1930.

They've got they've got a small number up kind of on the chest on the front of their jersey and then down basically on the belly. There are two Bucknell is the bison. And so there are two buffalos or bisons kind of charging at each other.

You know, kind of across the belly. And so, you know, they've got both the emblem and the number. And then, kind of the weirdest one, I think, is probably 1932 Lafayette.

So, it's the same general neighborhood as Bucknell. It's, you know, there are goofballs from Pennsylvania. And so, you know, they're named after the Marquis de Lafayette.

And so they have this kind of looks like the outline of George Washington on a court, right? You know that profile. But it's it's an image, or it's a profile of the Marquis, and it's sitting there on the jersey. It's like it's fine enough.

You know, there are little inset lines where his nose or his ears are, whatever they are. And there's no way anybody in the stands can see that stuff. You know, even in a small stadium.

So it's it's kind of it's so finely done that it kind of just didn't make any sense, frankly. But anyways, it's just this great image. And it's like, who the heck decided to put that baby on the jersey? Yeah, you have two different images.

You have like a full team picture of the Lafayette team. You know, all the members are sitting in bleachers. It's kind of far away.

And you can you can see it's maybe somebody's head looks almost like, you know, the front of a dime, you know, that kind of image. But then you have a picture of five players a little bit closer, and you can see, you know, the marquee there. So it's very, very detailed for an emblem on the front of a jersey.

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred years ago.

Yeah. You know, you know, I mean, presumably, it's a black-and-white image. So I assume it's all just a white or a gray or something, you know, logo.

So you're like the Blackhawks. You know, there's multiple colors. And so at least it helps, you know, kind of differentiate the features in a face.

But anyway, this is one of those things that, you know, I mean, football at that time, you know, football didn't require numbers on the jerseys on the front of the jerseys until 1937. And it was like in 41, where they started numbering by position. You know, guards are wearing this number, and tackles are wearing that.

But, you know, so I mean, these preceded those rules. Right. So it's one of those like, OK, well, why didn't football have more emblems? You know, they could, they could have.

Right. Right. And other sports did.

But football, for whatever reason, didn't go the emblem route. And, you know, ultimately, the space got taken over by numbers. Well, perhaps it was this 1932 Lafayette jersey that just did them in.

We've got to stop this. We've got to stop the madness. That's a reasonable assumption to make.

However, is it 1932? Isn't it that same era where you have claims to the ugliest uniforms in football history? Yes. The 30s, 30s are the 30s in general. And kind of the longer you got it, the further you got into the decade, the worse it got.

So so maybe Lafayette was not so bad compared to their their peers at the time. Yeah, I'd have to see the back of their pants. Make a judgment because in the 30s, you saw those stripes up the back of the pants that are absolutely hideous.

Of course, the poor guy's head is trapped in between two friction strips. You know, if those are walls, he's not going to have a very good view of anything looking off that jersey. Well, very interesting, Tim.

This is something I've never really thought about with the emblems being on hockey and, you know, so prevalent and why they aren't in football. I never really thought of it. But you really pointed out something else, the obvious that probably many of us overlook and gave us a history on it.

And we really appreciate that. And you do this a lot. You have these little oddities that, you know, we we probably should know and just don't think about.

But you do it on a daily basis. And it's really fascinating. I think the listeners would love to enjoy some of these and your tidbits each and every day.

So please share with us how we can share in learning this. Sure. Real simple.

Go out to my website, FootballArcheology.com. Any story that's out there gives you an opportunity to subscribe at the end. And if you haven't been there before, I think it kind of forces you to at least say yes or no to subscribing. But anyway, if you subscribe, you'll get an email every day at seven o'clock Eastern that has that day's story.

Typically, a one or two-minute read with a couple of pictures. Alternatively, you can follow me on Twitter at Football Archeology. And, you know, then it becomes more hit or miss because of the way Twitter is working nowadays.

Who sees what is a total mystery? All right. Well, Tim, we thank you very much for sharing your time and knowledge and information with us on a daily basis.

And we thank you for joining us each Tuesday to talk about some of these. And we hope to talk to you again next Tuesday. Yeah, I'll see you a week from now.

Thanks.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

Love the football jersey designs and evolution wait till you check out the History of American Football Jersey.

-Football Jersey Frequently Asked Questions

-What are American football jerseys made of? Modern jerseys are a mix of synthetic fibers such as polyester or a blend of different materials such asspandex, for more check out our in-depth study ofThe Make up and Materials of Football Jerseys.

-When did football jerseys start having numbers on them? Though there was documented talk of it since 1894, players did not all wear digits in a game until the 1905 Iowa State at Drake game, check this out more on this storyThe Origins Of Football Player Numbers.

-Whose college football jersey was the first to be retired? Red Grange's Number 77 Ilinois Illini jersey was the first college uni to be shelved in 1925. There were a couple more about the same time and we chatted with a college football expert historian help divulge College Football and its First Retired Jerseys.

-Who are some of the most famous NFL players at each jersey number? From Red Grange's jersey number 77 to Tom Brady's iconic number 12, a slew of NFL players made their digits proud. Want to know more? You are in the right place as we covered all 100 jersey numbers and the best to wear each:About Football By Numbers.

---

There are a handful of early coaches who have had such a resounding impact on the game of football that they actually changed the game, and took players to the upmost sides of their God Given talents. Percy Haughton, not a household name by any means, is one of these rare individuals in gridiron lore, whose story needs to be told.

Author Dick Friedman joined us to chat about his book on the Harvard coaching legend.


Percy_Haughton_D_Friedman_1

⏰Sat, 06/01 05:45AM · 48mins

Transcript

Darin Hayes
Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes at pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pigpen, your portal into positive football history. And we're gonna stare down that portal today and go way back, probably 125 years or so back into the East Coast of football, where football started. And we have a gentleman who's written a book called The Coach Who Strangled a Bulldog, How Harvard's Percy Haughton Beat Yale and Helped Reinvent Football. That's, of course, author Dick Friedman. Dick Friedman, welcome to the program.

Dick Friedman
Thank you very much, Darin. It's great to be here.

Darin Hayes
It's very interesting to have this talking about Coach Percy Haughton because we have not covered him in our program and we have, you know, probably about 1000 different podcasts and I can't believe I've never had anybody talk about him before so I'm really excited to hear a little bit more about coach.

Dick Friedman
Well, I gotta say, I think I won't say he's totally lost to history. He is, of course, in the College Football Hall of Fame. So if you're in the College Football Hall of Fame, you're out there, you know, you're a figure. But he's, because he did most of his coaching before World War I, before the age of the newsreels, I think to some degree he is lost to history. You know, for instance, he's not nearly as famous as Newt Rockne, who followed him along and is now the most important coach in American College Football, arguably. I mean, I guess you could also, you know, invoke Bear Bryant and maybe even Nick Saban at this point. But in any event, Percy Horton was a figure who did his greatest work really by 1915. And, you know, and then the United States went to World War I, and after that, things changed. And then Percy, except for a very brief stint in Columbia, was out of the game. So, in any event, he is kind of a distant figure, maybe more distant than he should be.

Darin Hayes
OK, yeah, that's very interesting. I think, and I can see, that your passion, and you're talking about the passion of Coach Haughton. And I'd like maybe to get some of your background to tell us why Percy Haughton is a person of interest that you would write a book about.

Dick Friedman
Well, it's very interesting, Darin, because I grew up eight miles from Harvard Stadium in Newton, Massachusetts. I started going to Harvard games when I was seven years old in 1958. And then I actually went to Harvard and graduated in 73 and, of course, went back most seasons to see games, either at the stadium or when they were on the road. But interestingly enough, it took an assignment when I was working for Sports Illustrated, which I did for 18 years. I was working on the college football coffee table book that Sports Illustrated did about 12 or 13 years ago. A piece of copy came in front of me written by my colleague, David Sabino, and it was Harvard's Percy Haughton, who was 71, 7, and 5 in Cambridge from 1908 through 1915. And I looked at it and I went, holy. And then I won't say the next word that I said, holy blank. I've known this my whole life. Has anybody ever written a book about this guy? And I did a little investigating. And the answer was no. Nobody had written a book about him, although he had been part of a few other books. And I said, wow. I said this has got to be worth something. This particular era, especially of Harvard football that he coached, was an amazing era with some amazing players. So there's got to be something there. A lot of people that I talked to didn't really think there was anything there, and they were sick and tired of hearing about Harvard. And there was a lot going on. Nevertheless, when I did a little more investigating, the thing that I found was, aside from the Outnet record, which is amazing, there was really a great story about this guy and about the players that played for him. He turned out to be an absolutely seminal figure in the beginnings of what I call modern football. And the more I got into it, the more fascinated I got. And then I discovered that he had written a book which is now a hundred years old, exactly this year, called Football and How to Watch It. I read the book, and it's actually available on Google Books. And I recommend that anybody read it because it's fascinating. And basically, the book holds up amazingly well a hundred years later. I mean, the one thing that is not as big a part of it as it is now in the game is passing. That was not nearly as big a part of the game. It was just coming in in the twenties and certainly was not as well developed as it became even 10 to 15 years later. But the rest of it, it's as if he could write it as if he had written it last week. And so the more I looked, the more I looked, and the more research I did, the more I was convinced that there was something there. Then, I found one of his great assistant coaches, who was actually his backup fullback at Harvard. He was a guy named Reggie Brown, who was his advanced scout and did notebooks. And these notebooks were suddenly hiding in plain sight of all places Notre Dame. I got in contact with the librarians at Notre Dame, and they sent them to me on loan. And again, reading, what he did was he had all sorts of diagrams and plays, like if he would be scouting Yale for the game and he would be scouting and he'd go to Yale practices and he put their formations down and everything. And again, the more you look at it, the more I am going, wow, what a treasure trove this is.

Darin Hayes
There's got to be there's got to be a story behind it. How did the assistant coach at Harvard's notebooks and playbooks basically end up at Notre Dame? There has to be a Knute Rockne who had to do something about this.

Dick Friedman
Well, it's possible the other thing that's that's, and I asked I asked he actually asked that question of a few people. And what they said is that often things go are sold to collections, various collections and then the schools will buy the collection. And that's probably what happened.

Darin Hayes
That makes perfect sense, though.

Dick Friedman
Yeah, yeah. But anyway, you look at these things, and these things are, you know, 110 years old now. And you're amazed at the sophistication of the game already. Right. I mean, that, that, that, in fact, every, everything as I as I kept researching, that was one of the main things that, that, that came through to me was how even back in 1910 1915 the game, the scouting, the media, of course, called the press then was already amazingly sophisticated. And, you know, again, I said, there's a lot going on here that, that, that's plenty for me to write about. And sure enough, you know, I almost got lost in the research; as you well know, that happens to all of us. We go down the rabbit hole and, and the next thing you know, you know, we forget to write the book. But luckily, that didn't happen. And, and, you know, that's how the coach who strangled the bulldog came to be. So, anyway, it was a great, great experience for me. And, you know, the other thing is that it got me some cred among the Harvard Athletic Department. And I ended up being, I now, for the last, since 2014, I've been the Harvard Magazine football correspondent. Really nice. Yeah, I mean, I've been, I, when I was on the East Coast, I would go to as many games as I could. Now that I've been on the West Coast, I've been streaming the games on ESPN Plus. I have to say it's not a bad way to be a correspondent. You know, I mean, you get it, but you get it almost as much as you need. Almost better than being there. And, you know, I write up a little report every, after every game and, and, you know, it's been a lot of fun, and it's also, you know, kept me in touch with a lot of people back at the school, which is wonderful.

Darin Hayes
And that's going to be fantastic to be in your alma mater, too. That's really special.

Dick Friedman
Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's been great. And, you know, the other thing is, I've gotten to meet and talk with the coach at Harvard. Now, Tim Murphy is a tremendous coach, and I have judged him as the greatest coach in Harvard football history, even greater than Percy Haughton. And I give him the nod, partly because Murph has been added for 28 seasons now, whereas Percy only did it for nine, you know, or eight. So no, I guess it's nine. So, you know, Murph has won like nine Ivy League championships and is a tremendous football coach. But anyway, so between one thing and another, it's been a tremendous experience for me.

Darin Hayes
Well, yeah, congratulations. That's a great honor. And, uh, something, you know, especially to be staying in touch with your Alma water and, uh, stay in touch with football, even though you're on the other coast. The Dick, let's get it a little bit into the Percy Haughton's background. How did he get involved in football?

Dick Friedman
Percy went to Groton, the fabled prep school. Percy was a member of the class of 95, that's 1895, at Groton, and then went on to Harvard, where he was in the class of 1899. Percy was a star athlete at Groton, one of the greatest athletes; even today is still ranked one of the greatest athletes that Groton ever had. He was a big, tall guy, very lean, very limber. He was a tremendous punter, but his actual favorite sport remained, and so was baseball, where he was a great center fielder for both Groton and the Crimson. And he loved baseball players for his football team. That's what they always said, that as soon as he saw a great baseball player, a lot of them already were great football players, but he would try to convert them into football players. Anyway, he went on to Harvard and played fullback for the Crimson. This was a time when Yale was totally dominant in football in the 1890s and early 1900s, a really great golden age for Yale. They were the Alabama of their day, really. He was involved in one game in 1898 when his punting helped Harvard win a rare victory. But again, when you have a rare victory in these series, people really do remember it. And then he went on after college, after Harvard, he went on and coached at Cornell for a couple of years. And he actually succeeded a coach that you may have heard of named Pop Warner. And then Percy went back to Boston, coaching not being a well-paid profession at that time. Percy went on back to Boston and worked in the bond business. And at the time, Harvard was kind of struggling, losing to Yale and finally people in Cambridge got fed up and they went after Percy and they said, how would you like to take over? He said he would with one condition, and that condition was that he had total control. He was not gonna take it if people were gonna be kibitzing over his shoulder. And sure enough, they were so desperate that they grabbed him. In the first year, he beat Yale in some polls back then, and some newspapers named him the national champion, Harvard national champion. There were seven, oh, and one; they were undefeated, and Percy had achieved his cred. From there on, he had a successful run. But again, it was his way or the highway. And he really systematized football. He really broke the game down and kind of modernized it. A lot of the things he innovated or made popular, at least, are things that we see coaches still doing today.

Darin Hayes
OK. Now, now with that story there with him, uh, you know, beating Yale sort of right out of the shoot with the coaching, is that where the title to your book came from, strangling the Bulldog?

Dick Friedman
Yes, it was that particular game that Yale game in 1908 when Percy, they went to Yale, they traveled to Yale the game was at Yale Field back then, there was the Yale ball was still a few years away from being built, and Percy, always a great motivator, he decided that he would strangle a bulldog, of course, that being Yale's mascot. What he did was though he had a bulldog being towed by I think back of a car and this, however was to allay the PETA fans who might be listening right now, this was not a live bulldog, this was a paper mache bulldog; and Percy grabbed it by the neck, said this is what we're gonna do to Yale and the team laughed like crazy but the legend grew that Percy strangled the bulldog and of course then he did so metaphorically three days later when they upset Yale with the mighty score of four to nothing thanks to a field goal by a guy named Vic Canard. So that was the whole birth of it, but whenever I would tell people that I was working on this, people would say, oh, isn't that the guy that strangled the bulldog? So after a while, I began to think, you know, maybe I should make more of this than my working title was things like Crimson Autumns and whatever, and I went, you know something, this strangled the bulldog thing, we got to get it right out there, you know front and center and sure enough that's what we did.

Darin Hayes
catchy title, and it's one that's unique and different from anything else you read, especially in a football book. So that's great, though. It really caught my eye when I saw the title.

Dick Friedman
Well, you know, that was the editors were happy that I came up with it, the editors of the book, you know, because they were starting to worry that this thing was going to sound very, very plain vanilla, you know, so, you know, I understood what they said being an editor myself for many years. You know, you got to you got to get something to grab the reader in, you know, pull the reader in.

Darin Hayes
1 .8 seconds to grab their attention. And once you do, you got them, right?

Dick Friedman
That's right. That's it. Exactly. That's it. Exactly.

Darin Hayes
Now I find it, it's a real interesting going back and looking at some of these, uh, records of some of these teams, especially the Eastern teams. And you see, you know, Yale and Harvard and Princeton and Penn, especially Yale and Harvard always being that last game, you know, sort of right around Thanksgiving last game of the season. And usually, you know, everything was hinging on on who was going to be, you know, the top team in the land, especially when they, you know, people like, uh, Park H Davis and the Billings report and Helms report and the rest of them went back retroactively and looked at these teams that sort of came down to that game would, uh, determine who would be the national champion or co-national champion at the time. And is, uh, Harvard and Yale, still like the last game of the season on their, OK?

Dick Friedman
Yes, that is called, still called the game, right? You don't even need the big game, which is what Cal and Stanford have out here. But no, the game is the last game of the season. And a lot of years, one or the other of the teams has a mediocre record or worse. And if they can upset the other, the hated rival, then the season is a relative success. And it's still the one that really counts. And for many years, you're right. It did have implications, either in the early days or national championship implications. Nowadays, since 1956, since the formation of the Ivy League, often it has had Ivy League championship implications of one or both teams involved with the chance for the title. So there's a lot at stake. I know the coaches feel it tremendously, the pressure tremendously. They think about it. They probably worry about it because they know that's the one the alumni think about. And it's a yardstick for the alumni. And it's also the biggest attendance in the Ivy League almost every year. It's the biggest attendance when it's at Yale especially. Because at Yale, you might have as many as 55 or 60 ,000 people at the game. Harvard's a much smaller stadium, but usually is sold out nevertheless. So it's quite a rivalry. I will say this though. Princeton and Dartmouth lately have been terrific. And before that, Penn had quite a run. And so in fact, a lot of years Penn and Harvard was the game for the Ivy League championship, which is the next to last game of the season. A lot of years like in the 80s and 90s. So it goes back and forth. The Ivy League fans, there aren't that many of us, but we're intense. That much I'll say.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, that's it's a tremendously is very interesting. I had a great opportunity probably about 10 years ago to go and tour the Yale Bowl and some of Yale's campus with a former player and a former coach that my wife's related to. And we got to get to experience. I got to talk to the former player and I told myself, you know, what was that? Like the biggest day, you know, of your career, you know, coming out of this Yale tunnel, what was what was the game that you remember the most coming out of there? It was all the two times that we played Harvard here. That was the thing. So they feel the same way up at Yale. I'm sure that you folks at Harvard do, too. So it's an interesting rivalry.

Dick Friedman
Well, you know, we consider Yale our safety school. What can I tell you? You know, only kidding, only kidding. Yeah. No, I mean, that one. I must say the other great thing is that I've had a real good chance to observe and, in some cases, to meet the other Ivy, some of the other Ivy coaches. And, you know, it's a it's a terrific group right now. I mean, they're the same same as the same group as last season, which is really rare, right, to have nobody in a conference lose their jobs. And but I think it's merited because they're they're it's a very impressive group of individuals and they're really good teachers. That's the other thing that I like about all of them, you know, very, very, you know, when you when you hear them talk, you know, you feel like you're learning something from all of them, which is great. So, you know, all of this has been very fascinating to me in my old age, you know, getting to, as you know, getting to meet and briefly sit in the press box with with 22 year olds or 19-year olds who could be my grandchildren. You know, it's great. It's a lot of fun.

Darin Hayes
Interesting. But let's get back to Coach Haughton. I'm sorry, I took you down a couple rabbit holes there. Coach Haughton had the big game beaten Yale early on in his career. Was that sort of the biggest game of his career or was there some other games that maybe are equal to that or maybe even surpassed it?

Dick Friedman
There were a couple of Yale games later on that Harvard won in big fashion, in convincing fashion. They won in 1914, I believe, was a 39 to six. And the following year, in 15, they also won by a very big score. And when you won, when you scored 39 points in a game back then, that was like scoring 75 points today. That was just, it was a low scoring era. So for you to pile up that many touchdowns in a major game was awesome. And a lot of it was just that he had a well-drilled group that executed brilliantly, especially in their blocking. And they were just unstoppable. They were unstoppable. So, they also won a major game in 1913 at the stadium, again against Yale, in which one of the most famous players, a fellow named Charlie Brickley, kicked five field goals. Now this had been done before, but never in as major a game with this kind of a spotlight. And Brickley, who might call the da Vinci of the drop kick, is still one of the greatest, if not the greatest drop kickers in football history. I mean, we talked earlier about, you know, Percy Haughton being a lost figure in a way, drop kicking certainly is a lost art in football. But Brickley, who also could place kick as well, drop kicking was a crucial element in a team's attack back then. And Brickley was the greatest drop kicker. And he was from nearby Everett, Massachusetts, but he kicked five field goals at the stadium. And this received totally national coverage. It was almost like the Super Bowl, you know, if somebody had done something great in the Super Bowl. And, you know, so all these games were receiving total saturation coverage. And again, the whole Haughton legend got burnished with every year that he achieved this kind of result. And, you know, but those were some of the results that happened and they did stick around one extra year in 1916 and Yale did win 63. So, you know, it wasn't foolproof, you know, that's the nature of the beast. But anyway, that was when you read about the coverage about, you know, Brickley, you know, Brickley was a God at that point, you know, Brickley was like, you know, any great athlete, you know, Joe Namath or, you know, Tom Brady or you name it. That's the level of celebrity that he had achieved.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. Isn't it interesting that, you know, back in that era, you know, that the kickers and punters were sort of the stars of the teams, of the great teams. And, you know, like you say, like Brickley and, you know, hot and hot and before him and, you know, Thorpe and it was all these, all these players, because the kicking game and the punting game was so important to the offensive before, you know, the forward pass was really prevalent. So it's fascinating.

Dick Friedman
Yeah, and Haughton, you know, was having been a great punter himself, really paid tremendous attention to it. What we today call the measurables, you know, he was already onto it. He would put a stopwatch on his on his kickers to see how fast they would get the punt off, you know, after the after the snap of the ball and, you know, that he drilled them to try to get it off, you know, no less than like one one in five, seven seconds or something like that. I could be misquoting. The other the other thing that he was a fiend about was back back then, you know, covering kicks was very, very, a very big part of the game. And what he said to his kickers was, you know, I want the ball kicked 40 yards. I'm not talking 41 yards and I'm not talking 39 yards. When I say 40, I mean 40. And one of his greatest players, besides Brickley, a guy named Eddie Mahan, kicked one 60 yards and Brickley yanked him from I mean, Haughton yanked him from the game and said, that 60 yard punt does us no good at all, because we can't cover 60 yards. You know, that's the kind of guy he was. He was a nut. Look, he was a bit of a nut. There's just no way around it.

Darin Hayes
You hear about it all the time. Even today that punters out kicking their coverage. So maybe he was on to something back then.

Dick Friedman
Oh, he definitely was, I mean, and he he had, you know, he wanted football played played a certain way. And, you know, a big part of the game was was exchange of punts to gain territory gain yardage. And the other thing is, he loved exchange of punts and and playing for the breaks. You know, back then, let the other team could fumble. They might throw an interception if the rare forward pass you know Harvard guy could intercept it, and they would gain territory that way and then they had Berkeley to kick a field goal. Three to nothing win that was fine by him, you know, but they had so much better material by that point than the than most of the other teams that they were winning by reasonably big store big scores. And they won. They were 33 they had a 33 game unbeaten streak from 1911 to 1915. Wow. And then a couple of ties in there but you know they just outclassed other teams, you know, so much better. And the team that beat them before the end of the, the beginning of the streak was Carlisle with Jim Thorpe. And Jim Thorpe put on a day for the ages back at the, you know, at Harvard Stadium, and Haughton said, you know, I've now seen the Superman in the flesh, you know, he was convinced so you know, and Berkeley and Haughton became good friends great kickers you know they do kicking contests and stuff. So, you know, if there had been more of an organized pro football in the in the late teens and early 20s, there'd be a lot more have been a lot more money for those guys.

Darin Hayes
Hmm. Interesting. Now, OK, besides the contributions that Coach Haughton did, you know, for just his record at Harvard and, you know, winning some national championships in there in the kicking game, what are some other contributions that you can sort of look back and say, you know, Percy Haughton, he's a guy that started that or has a lot of responsibility for that. Some things that maybe in modern football that we should be thankful for to him.

Dick Friedman
Sure, I mean, I don't know about being thankful for, but the whole organization of practice, you know, I mean, the way practices today are scripted to the minute, you know, he started, I don't know whether he started it, but he certainly popularized it. He had the players helmets lined up, you know, in front of, at the field, right? Didn't want to waste a second. He gave out the players knew exactly what was going to be worked on that particular day. You know, he'd had at three o 'clock, they were going to do such and such. At 3.15, they were going to do such and such. At 3 .30, such and such. He broke the team down into four segments. He had the varsity, then an A, B and C team. And it was a bit of a ladder in the sense that you could work your way up or work your way down depending as the year went on. Very big on drill and execution. You know, we've heard a lot about Vince Lombardi telling his team to run the power sweep 11 times or until they got it right. Well, that was, Percy Haughton did the same thing. He didn't have a big playbook. He had only 25 plays, but he could run them from five different formations. So he really had 125 plays. The other thing that he did was, I think was very, very important. He decided at a certain stage that the future of football was not to the heavy, to the weight, to the heavy guy. It was to the athletic guy. And that really, he figured that out early on. You know, that again, he loved baseball players, but what he wanted was really the athletic guy, not that, or as what they called it back then, the 200 -pound fat boy, you know, which now we would call the 400 -pound fat boy. But that was really important to the Harvard system, was to have really kind of raw boned great athletes who were fast, quick, as well as strong, not a big guy on weight, you know, working with the weights. Instead, he would rather guys be eased off and come in rested and, you know, be keen rather than work them and scrimmage them to death and practice. So all these things that have become common and standard and most coaches, you know, quivers today, you know, are what are a big part of the Haughton system. And because of Harvard's prominence, you know, they got a lot of publicity. And then he wrote the book and even more of his stuff. And then the one other thing I should talk about, which I think is very important, was that he decided also that deception was gonna be a very big feature of the game. And his teams were very, very skilled in deceiving the opponent. He really wanted the opponent to sweat hard and worry about what the next play is. He loved it when passing came in because he would pitch out to one of the triple threat backs that they had and the triple threat back would hold the ball up. And, you know, the defensive backs were wondering, what's gonna happen here? Is it gonna be a run? Is it gonna be a pass? You know, what's gonna go on? And he loved that, you know, he wanted that guy on an island just worrying and letting the Harvard guys get the jump on them. And again, this was all not totally new, but again, became much more standard with what he did.

Darin Hayes
Uh, very interesting. Uh, and you know, when you say we should be thankful to, I think, uh, us as fans and the players themselves should be thankful for having the organized practices and I'm sure coaches today sort of take it for granted, but somebody had to start doing that and organize those and having the drills and everything. And, you know, I, I think that's definitely something that you can hang, uh, Percy Haughton's hat on, uh, to, to, uh, you know, credit him for that. So I think that is something to be thankful for.

Dick Friedman
So yeah, yeah. And you know, and he even had like each week, you know, was given a name, you know, like, like, would be like, joy week, you know, break before the Yale game, he wanted the team really loose before the Yale game, he wanted them to have fun that week, you know, not to be have the entire season planned out. And, again, this was, you know, very contrary to what the image of football was of a bunch of guys in a scrum, you know, and it's fascinating for me to read it was fascinating for me to read about it, because, you know, again, I had a total image of guys in a scrum, you know, guys with a lot of hair and a scrum. And then you read about it, and you see, well, you know, what a method that this guy had, you know, he called it human chess. Right. And it's just the whole cerebral aspect of the game was brought to the fore by person.

Darin Hayes
Uh, I'm sure if he could see the game being played today, he would, he would really be excited, you know, being, having all the other formations in the passing game, be more prevalent and what it, what a chess chess match it is today. That's for sure.

Dick Friedman
can't make the case that he's any better than Rockme or Frank Leahy or, you know, Bud Wilkinson. You know, you just go down the line of all the tremendous coaches in college football. But I do think that he's lost to history in a way. And again, I think this is a big part of it is because he was early. He was too early, right? If there had been newsreel footage of him, he would have a better chance of being really famous. Now, I would say that he went to Columbia in the 20s. He took the job there and was starting to build that program. And one day after practice, he said he wasn't feeling too well. He laid down and he died of a heart attack. He was 48 years old.

Darin Hayes
Oh, well.

Dick Friedman
he had been in New York, in New York, where he was, if he had been able to continue in New York through the, you know, the war in 20s and into the 30s with all the celebrity of the of the New York Press, you know, then then maybe we would all be talking a lot more about it. You know, so that I think I think that's that's kind of what happened. But I but I do think given his record and given the various innovations that I've talked about, that he should be better known and should be given more, more credit than he has. Again, he's in the Hall of Fame. You know, you're in the Hall of Fame can't really get much more credit than that. But as I say, in terms of like the average fan, knowing who he is, very, very few would know today. And, you know, it's a shame. It's a shame, because I do think he was very important figure in football.

Darin Hayes
Well, I, that's why I'm glad that there, there's people out there like you that are preserving the football history. And we thank you for that and preserving, you know, coach Percy Haughton and some of his great contributions, his history, uh, you know, everything that he did for the game and for, for Harvard football and, uh, make, make some a legend. And we're glad that, uh, somebody recorded that in a person's user. And we thank you for that.

Dick Friedman
Well, the labor of love for me, going back through the archives was wonderful. I should, one more thing to add, I was able to get back into the archives and after a certain amount of time, you go back into the student folders and I was able to see various things about the players, including Percy who had been a player, of course, including their grades, which was fascinating as a former student myself. And the other thing that I saw of a very sobering aspect was that I think that we had one of the earliest cases, not recorded, but the earliest cases of CTE with one of the players, a guy named Percy Wendell, who was a terrific fullback for Harvard in the 1911, 1910, 11 seasons. He was known as the human bullet for his headfirst running style. And as time went on, Percy Wendell started to falter. And finally, in the late 20s, and he had served in World War I, and so they ascribed some of his problems to the war, but in the late 20s, he was described as being not the man he used to be, kind of a euphemism, and he died at age 42. And reading between the lines, it sure sounds like CTE, right? And we don't know for sure, but boy, every single symptom was there. And very sobering about the game and I'm sure that he was not the only one suffering from that illness back then, especially given that they were not wearing the, either not wearing helmets or wearing the leather helmets. And you run into that, and so that takes you aback when you're seeing it in the files. I also saw in the files, players who almost all of them from that era went on to World War I and served in World War I. And one of the players who was Brickley's backup got killed in action. And when you read this stuff, you feel like you know these guys, you've been on the football team with these guys, and then you see that they're gone. And at age 23, you see photos of them and it's heartbreaking, it really is.

Darin Hayes
And we thank him for the service like we do everybody else that's fought for our country over the years. But yeah, true. It had to be a scary war.

Dick Friedman
Oh, that was terrible, terrible. I mean, and pointless. But anyway, that's a whole nother topic that we could get on someday. But yeah, but anyway, the whole aspect of the game back then, so many things that pull you into the present. And you know, again, that was, to me, I keep using the word fascinating, but it was fascinating to be mesmerizing, really. It's a good thing that the library closed five o 'clock, or I just would have stayed there all night, you know, because it is, I mean, I'm sure everybody who has, who has done this kind of research, you know, can, can relate. So but again, just, just fascinating.

Darin Hayes
I fully understand it, I tell you that. So why don't you tell us again the name of your book and where folks can get a copy of it.

Dick Friedman
OK, the name again is the coach who strangled the bulldog, how Harvard's Percy Haughton beat Yale and reinvented football. The publisher is Roman and Littlefield. Roman spelled R -O -W -M -A -N. It's on Amazon, very, very available on Amazon, and it's available in hardcover, paperback, and Kindle. So no excuse for people not to buy it and read it, and there will be a test. Now, only kidding. So yeah, but it's readily available on Amazon.

Darin Hayes
OK, great. And folks, if you're driving a car or something, don't can't write down the information right now. We will put it in the show notes of this podcast. Just look at the notes. It'll also be on pigskin dispatch for this article that's going to accompany the podcast. So you can find it either place and get you connected to Dick Friedman and his wonderful book. Sir, do you have any social media or anything you'd like to share where people can keep up on what you're doing? If you're writing anything new.

Dick Friedman
my website is being is is under reconstruction right now and when I when it is ready I am going to send you a note and you can put it in the in the show notes absolutely but yeah we have one of the many things that's fallen by the wayside during these last couple of years has been reconstruction of the website so it will happen and you know I am noodling with other book ideas and I can guarantee you that it will not be about Harvard football if I write another book enough already you know I've written enough about Harvard football in my lifetime so but you know but I've thought about other things too now that I'm on the west coast you know there might be a west coast oriented story about the early days of football and um you know we'll see could be something else you never know you never know but it but as I say it's been a tremendous um you know a tremendous uh project for me um this the book and um I like a lot of people I was kind of wondering what the heck I was going to do after I retired and it turned out I never really retire you know and so it's been you know so that's where I am but it's been it's been fascinating and much very enjoyable to meet people like yourself and and other people um you know who are who are in the uh world of college football history which is a you know a great history and um you know my dad went my dad went to Michigan so you know I I had heard a lot about that and uh he played um freshman football and he's a little guy like myself and the freshmen back then at Michigan were pretty much just cannon fodder and he was very proud though that he got knocked on his rear end by a fellow named Gerald R. Ford Jr and uh he said Jerry Ford was a tremendous football player and uh and and for my father to say that my father was a staunch liberal democrat so Jerry Ford must have really been great so

Darin Hayes
Yeah, he definitely was a great football player as well as, you know, in politics, as we know now, did, uh, did your father play for, uh, Fritz Crisler then? Is that.

Dick Friedman
No, the year that he that he played freshman ball was under a guy named Harry Kipke, K -I -P -K -E. Yeah, OK. Yeah, had to be.

Darin Hayes
pretty close, so I'll bet.

Dick Friedman
Yeah, yeah. And he and he was in the they played they were great. And when my father was a freshman, then they had several down seasons. And then my my father graduated. And then Tommy Harmon came in, in the late 30s. And they were great again. So my father would tell me about the great Tommy Harmon runs against Penn and schools like that. So he got me he got me very interested in an early age.

Darin Hayes
And the Harmon was definitely a great player too. So that's very interesting. Well, sir, we appreciate your time. We appreciate you coming on and preserving the football history and sharing it with us folks. Like we said, you can find a Dick Friedman's books where have the information, the show notes and on pigskin dispatch .com. And soon we'll have information on a Dick's website too, that you can go and see what he's got going on here in the near future. So Dick Friedman, thank you very much for joining us in the Pig Pen on Percy Haughton.

Dick Friedman
My pleasure. Thank you very much, Darin.

---

College football jerseys are more than just fabric; they symbolize school pride, individual achievement, and moments etched in memory. But did you know some jerseys transcend even that, becoming so iconic they're permanently retired, hanging, and preserved for all to honor, forever out of reach?

Join us in this visit with FootballArchaeology.com's Timothy Brown as we delve into the fascinating stories behind the first three college football jerseys ever retired, uncovering the legends who wore them, the moments they immortalized, and the legacy they left behind.

Prepare to be transported back to a time when gridiron giants walked the Earth, their jerseys becoming more than just numbers but testaments to their enduring impact on the game we love. Buckle up, college football fans, and let's embark on a journey through history, one retired jersey at a time!

-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown on the 1st 3 retired jersey numbers

Hello, my football friends; this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And welcome to Tuesday. And it's FootballArcheology.com day with Timothy P. Brown, the founder and host of that website.

Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Good to see you.

I was trying to adjust my little white light here. I've tried a bunch of things to brighten up this room, but I'm down in, you know, I've got a basement office, and it's always kind of yellow. But you're not here to look at me.

You're here to listen to that. That's right. And nobody wants to look at me either.

And I have too much light, and it washes me out. And I look like I'm, you know, a marshmallow man or something. So, hey, that's the way it goes.

But, you know, we're not technology people. We're football people. And we're here to talk a little bit about football and some football of ancient times here for at least, you know, a while back.

And you have a really interesting tidbit I'd love to discuss today. You talk about the first three retired jersey numbers in a recent tidbit. And gosh, that piques the interest.

Just hearing that. Maybe you could tell us about that story, who these three jerseys were, and who wore them. Yeah, so, you know, so first of all, before numbers could get retired, people had to wear numbers and, you know, when football was first when numbers were first being used to identify players, it they were like on the scorecards.

The players didn't wear them, but they wouldn't wear a number necessarily. But the school would publish a scorecard that, if somebody did a certain thing, they made a tackle, scored a touchdown, or came into the game as a substitute, they would post that player's number on the scoreboard in a particular spot. And then that is what, you know, you'd have to OK, number five.

And then that was, you'd find the corresponding number on the scorecard. So then, you know who the player was. But that was kind of a thing people don't realize, and it is a goofy little thing that occurred.

But one of the other things when that process was going on was that, you know, the numbers could change from week to week. I mean, normally, it came up with one order at the beginning of the year, and then they just numbered the guys one through twenty-five. Right?

And then whoever the visiting team was, they'd number them to, you know, assign them a number. So, you know, the numbers didn't mean it to the players. But then they, you know, so starting 1905 is the first time, numbers were in a football game.

But it didn't really until mid-teens when, you know, a lot more teams started wearing them. And so it wasn't until, you know, 1925, there's this fellow named Red Grange, who turned out to be a pretty good running back at Illinois. And he happened to wear number 77, you know, not a number we associate with running backs nowadays, but, you know, that's what he wore.

And he had such a fabulous career that Illinois decided, you know, once he, you know, played his last game, that they would never allow anyone else to wear number 77 for the Illinois football team. So he became the first player to have a number retired, as far as I know, that's across all sports. And so, so, you know, range number 77, boom.

So he's the first guy. Then the next guy was a similarly talented running back out at Stanford, Ernie Nevers. And so the funny thing about his story is that he wore number one.

And when they retired, you know, this at the time, on the Pacific Coast, a lot of the student organizations kind of ran sports much more than they, I mean, eventually that got professionalized. But the student organization voted and said, we won't allow anybody else to wear number one at Stanford. And so, somehow, they slipped up in the next year, and a running back got issued the number one for one of the games.

And what's just kind of kind of cool about it? It's just that, you know, it was kind of a big thing. It got caught, you know, in the newspapers and everything.

But then there's a picture in Stanford yearbook for that year that shows this guy wearing number one in a game, you know, and, you know, it's just at that time, they didn't have a lot of pictures in the yearbook. But anyway, that's what, and then I've got that in the tidbit that we're talking about, you know. Nevers was probably a little bit ticked.

He was playing pro ball next year for the Duluth program. I'm assuming that point, but he's probably, hey, I thought you retired my number. Why is this guy wearing it? What the hell? Yeah, well, I tell you, he wasn't and didn't see it on TV.

So he wouldn't have seen it at the time. But yeah, it's kind of a story. And then, you know, they stopped it after that first time.

So then the third guy should have his number retired. That came in 1927, so two years later. And it's a guy that kind of everybody, you know, it's like today, you know, there's certain players that everybody knows.

And so, at the time, he would have been, you know, certainly known by anybody on the West Coast, probably, you know, other parts of the country because he was all American. But he was the captain of St. Mary's football team in 1927, named Larry Betancourt. And unlike the first two guys who were running backs, Betancourt was a center.

So, you know, apparently he was talented enough and just an honorable guy, all that kind of stuff. So then they ended up retiring his name. And then he ended up instead of signing with the.

He signed a major league contract with the NFL and played for three years with the St. Louis Browns, the same organization Ernie Nevers played baseball for. He played for parts of three seasons in the majors and then retired at age 32.

And then he played for the Packers in 1933. So, six years after getting out of college, he went and picked up one season anyway with the Packers. So anyway, Larry Betancourt.

Interesting trivia answer to a trivia question for you. Yeah, it is. Now, Tim, maybe you can answer this question.

Now we know today, when players' numbers get retired, you know, it is definitely in a professional sport. Even college football is usually like at their final home game. I've seen it happen many times, or they'll say, hey, this is the last time this number will be worn on a field.

So people appreciate that player a little bit more. In the 1920s, when Grange and Betancourt and Ernie Nevers were together, was it the same kind of thing at their last game, or did they have a separate photo shoot or ceremony or something? Yeah, I don't think it was all that formalized. To my knowledge, certainly, nothing occurred at a game.

So, like Illinois, a picture was taken at the time with Grange holding his jersey and his hands after a game. So, I mean, it was it was a staged photo. So, you know, they knew they were doing this, but to my knowledge, I don't think they did any kind of ceremony, you know, as part of his last game.

And then, you know, the others, Nevers and Betancourt, I think with Nevers, they kind of heard, hey, this is what happened with Grange, we should do the same thing with Nevers. So, I think that came a little bit after the fact. And then Betancourt, too, I mean, as far as I could tell, you know, looking at their yearbooks and things like that, I didn't see anything about this happening to him during the time he was, you know, still playing for them.

And then, you know, he played baseball for them the following spring, too. I'm trying to think that was Nevers, like a year ahead of Grange, because I know Nevers played, and Stanford played Notre Dame in that 1925 Rose Bowl. And Grange, I think, was a junior in the 1925 or 1924 season.

So 1925 would have been his final season with Thanksgiving. I think they were both seniors in their 25s. OK, OK.

If I'm not mistaken, Nevers was a junior when he played in that Rose Bowl. OK, that's why I was a little bit confused.

And I thought the Rose Bowl was his last game. OK, that makes sense. Yeah.

So yeah, anyway, I mean, it's just one of those things that we take for granted now, but, you know, it's like everything else. Somebody had to think this up. Right.

Somebody thought, hey, we're going to not let anybody else wear Red Green's number. I think it's lost the time, you know, who that was. But it's, yeah, it's just one of those things.

Somebody made it up, and now it's a tradition and a tremendous honor, regardless of sport and whether it's your high school or anything. You must have done some pretty good things if they return your number. Right.

It's also caused some interesting situations. I said to him that a couple of years ago when J.J. Watt went to the Cardinals, he wanted to wear 99 like he wore at Houston. But that was Marshall Goldberg's number for the Chicago Cardinals.

He also had to ask permission from the Marshall Goldberg family. They, of course, allowed it. I think about Joe Montana, you know, when he was 16 with the 49ers, when he went to the Chiefs, of course, 16 was retired from Len Dawson.

So he had ended up wearing, I think, 15 when he was with the Chiefs. But just some interesting things with these legends going to another team. And, hey, you can't have your old team number because we have our own legend here by that number.

It's kind of a neat thing there, too. Well, and it's just, you know, like at the professional level, you get into merchandising and all that kind of stuff. But it's just kind of funny how attached people become to a number, you know, that is often just randomly assigned somewhere along the line.

They got that number, and then, you know, it becomes part of their identity. And so, anyway, I think the whole thing is amusing in some respects. Yeah, it is.

And it's amazing how we do become attached to the numbers. I know I was a being a Steelers fan even to this day. When I think of number 10, I think of Roy Jarella, the kicker from the 70s, because that's who I grew up number 10.

And, you know, you have Santonio Holmes catching, you know, Super Bowl-winning catches wearing that number. And you've had many other players wearing that number 10, not Roy Jarella, the kicker. They're much more athletic and doing some better things than kick and field goals and things like that, too.

It's just amazing how we associate that. It was a good chat and a great discussion. You point out some really cool aspects of football that are sometimes so obvious and staring us right in the face.

But you bring up some history and some stories to it. Maybe you could share with the listeners how they can read you. Yeah.

So, the best way is to just go to football archaeology dot com and subscribe. It's free. And otherwise, if you don't want to do that, then you can follow me on Twitter on threads or subscribe to the Substack app, and you can follow me there and not necessarily get emails, you know, kind of whatever works for you.

Yeah, most definitely. And Tim, we appreciate you coming on here, folks. The link to the tidbit Tim spoke about today is in the podcast show notes.

It'll also take you to football archaeology dot com. Once you're there, you can check out some of these great tidbits he has there. And, you know, hit him up on Twitter and some of these other social media as he's on and message him on threads.

I or on Substack, I'm sorry, as I quite often do reading these and putting my two cents worth. We have a little banter a couple of times a week on this, along with some others. And it's good, good fun reading a tidbit.

The comments section is good fun, too. So, Tim, we appreciate you. We would love to talk to you again next week about some more great football.

Very good. I'm sure we'll find something to chat about.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

Love the football jersey designs and evolution wait till you check out the History of American Football Jersey.

-Football Jersey Frequently Asked Questions

-What are American football jerseys made of? Modern jerseys are a mix of synthetic fibers such as polyester or a blend of different materials such asspandex, for more check out our in-depth study ofThe Make up and Materials of Football Jerseys.

-What are some of the unique football jerseys in history? Gridiron jerseys with logos on the front were some what of fad once upon a time. Check this story titled Football Jerseys with Emblems.

---

Timothy P Brown posted a recent article describing an exciting award that some of our Nation's military training facilities once vied for on the football field. Tim joins us to bring this exciting subject in gridiron lore to light in this podcast episode as we continue our journey to preserve history.

This conversation is based on Tim's original Tidbit titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-battling-for-the-presidents?utm_source=publication-search">Battling For The President's Cup.

-Transcription of the Presidents Cup games with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends, this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And once again, we have a visit from our friend Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com. And he's got another subject from one of his tidbits that he wrote recently.

That's going to talk about something that you find rather interesting, as I did when I read it. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Darin, glad to be back.Look forward to chatting again and enjoying the winter weather, as we talk football. Your tidbits are extremely interesting. And this one tonight you had titled Battling for the President's Cup.

And it was just recently on January 26th. I wonder if you could you could talk a little bit and tell us what the President's Cup was. Yeah, so I mean, it's one of those things that was that is now kind of forgotten, right? Most people have never heard of the President's Cup, but it was kind of a big deal in the state.

And so but like most things, there's kind of a background in order to in order to talk about the real subject. Right. And so, you know, I think the main point and you know, my my first book was about football played by military teams during World War One.

So, you know, I've always kind of followed football played in military settings. And I think it's one of those things that is is really underappreciated in terms of the development of football as a game. And so the military, just by nature of their mission, you know, they they took the game overseas before anybody else did.

So, as an example, the first game played in Europe was played by two battleships that were part of the Great White Fleet. They played in East France in 1909. Yada, yada.

And so, you know, the military, you know, if you think about it, who's in the military? Well, a lot of times, it's a bunch of young men who are physically fit and physically able, and a lot of them need to blow off steam. One of the traditional ways that they have done this is through athletics. You know, the Navy was always big on boxing because you could do that on a ship at sea.

But they were also big on playing football. And so. So, sports was both a recreation and a way to maintain fitness in the military.

You know, kind of as far back as people played sports for recreation. And then it really got a push in World War One. You know, in all the training camps during World War One, there were a lot of all kinds of sports being played. The YMCA played a big role, both in camps in the States and over in Europe.

One of the things that the YMCA did was provide athletic equipment, and they set up basketball courts, football fields, etc. So athletics was a big thing. And so one of the things that kind of came out of the World War One experience was that there it was really the first time, other than a couple of the pro leagues in Ohio or Pennsylvania, is really the first time where there were all-star teams put together of men who had graduated from college in the past five, six years who were all in the service together at one camp or another.

And these camps had 50,000 people at 26,000 people. I mean, these were massive. You know, massive groups of young men.

And the biggest college in the in the country at the time was Penn, which had 7,500 students. So all of a sudden you had lots and lots of young men playing football. They formed these camp teams and they were very successful.

They got lots of news coverage. Lots of people attended their games. They played colleges.

They beat the college, you know, the better teams beat the colleges. So, you know, they were playing as good a football as there was in the country, you know, during World War Two or World War One. Sorry.

So but even, you know, so then once the once the war ends, basically guys all, you know, they go back to civilian life. But there remained a core of of people playing or remaining in the military. And then they continued playing football.

And one of the things that they did was, you know, the Navy had done this back, you know, from 1905 on. But they would have these tournaments where all the destroyers or all the battleships or all the cruisers who were stationed at a particular port would have a tournament for a football for football teams. And they determine who is the champion.

And then they, you know, the Norfolk would play the champion of New York and Philadelphia or whatever. In the end, you know, they ended up. They ended up forming these teams where it was like, OK, we're going to get the best Navy team and the best Army team or the best Marine team.

And we're going to see they're going to play one another and see who's best. So for like 1920 on on the East Coast, they played a game like that. And kind of year after year, as Quantico Marines won because they just they emphasized it enough and they had some really talented players.

But in 1924 and 1925, Calvin Coolidge decided to present the President's Cup to the winner of the active duty football tournament on the East Coast. Right. So it was just, you know, it's one of those things where the president and the cabinet, you know, multiple cabinet secretaries, the general staff, the admiralty, those people would be at the games.

Allies would be at the games. They would and it became a big social event in Washington, D.C. or Baltimore. You know, they played in a couple of different locations.

You know, they have these military balls after the games. And it kind of, you know, I mean, it never got to the same level as the Army Navy academy games, but it probably wasn't too far behind that in terms of the stature because it was like, yeah, he's college kids, but these are the active duty guys. Right.

These are the real soldiers and sailors. So it's just it was kind of a neat thing where these guys ended up playing. And, you know, unfortunately, shortly after, the Coolidge presented this cup, and the Army decided to kind of deemphasize these all-star teams, and then the Navy did, too.

And so then the Marines were left to play the Coast Guard. And eventually it all moved. The East Coast kind of fell apart and the emphasis on these military all star teams moved to the West Coast, where what's now Pendleton in San Diego and, you know, versus the West Coast fleet and the and the Corps that handled the Western Army Corps.

But so it's just one of these things that's kind of lost in time. I mean, nobody knows about this stuff anymore, but it was a big deal. It was in all the newspapers.

And, you know, I mean, another, I think, really kind of fun fact is just that of the fact that I think it was 1921 and 2016 coached by this guy who had played at West Point. And then he coached St. Mary's College in Texas. And his name was Dwight Eisenhower.

Right. So here's a guy who, you know, became president. You know, he led the Allied effort in Europe in World War II and became president.

But he was coaching one of these teams, you know, back in the back in the 20s. And, you know, at one point, he was stationed in Panama. And the guy who was the head coach, who has a whole separate story that I've written about, you know, just incredible story that guy had.

But anyway, you know, he requested, hey, bring Ike back here because I needed to help coach my team. So he transferred Ike from Panama back to the States so that he could help coach this all-star football team. You know, it's just like crazy things that happen to guys because of football.

So anyway, it's just one of these things that I think people know very little about this President's Cup anymore. On the West Coast, they played what they called the Armistice Day game. And they tried to buy the President's Cup there.

It didn't work out. They just kept on playing the Armistice Day game. But so anyways, you know, in both locations, it was a big event, big social event, military balls, big newspaper coverage, and very good football.

Right now, you know, a lot of these guys, you know, initially, there are a lot of guys who played at West Point or Army, and then they made it only for enlisted men. But still, a lot of good athletes, just a lot of young men at these bases. And, you know, they had their pick of 10, 20, 30,000 young men who could play football.

So they put together some pretty good teams. Well, yeah, maybe I asked you this when we were talking about the Rose Bowl games. We were talking about those military teams from that era, from World War I. But did those camp teams ever play like the main Army team or the main, you know, the Naval Academy team or West Point team? So, yes.

But so in 1918, Great Lakes played the Naval Academy. They'd come out east. So they played four or five, big 10 teams, and either tied or beaten them.

Then they went out east and played Rutgers, who had Paul Robeson at the time. And they just cleaned their clocks. They won like, you know, whatever it was, 43 to six or something.

They just blew Rutgers away. And the next week, they go to Annapolis. And Annapolis was winning six to nothing late in the fourth quarter with the ball on the one-and-a-half-yard line.

And a guy named Ingram, who became famous as coach later on, he was, I believe his quarterback, maybe his fullback. But anyways, he fumbles the ball, pops in the air into the hands of a Great Lakes player who grabs the ball, runs 100 yards. Well, he tries to run 100 yards in the other direction.

And one of the Naval Academy players comes off the bench and tackles him. And so then, you know, all hell breaks loose. And so anyways, the Academy superintendent comes out on the field and says, you're giving orders to referees because the rules didn't have, you know, didn't clarify what the situation should be here or the conditions.

And the Academy superintendent says you are giving that touchdown to Great Lakes. You know, our guy cheated. That was it, right? The referee said, OK, fine.

And so then Great Lakes won the game. And in the locker room afterward, they get the invitation to the 1919 Rose Bowl. So, you know, the Army and Navy played some of those, and you know, played some of the camp teams, but it was pretty limited.

And so, for sure, I know the Great Lakes game. I'm not, you know, I'd have to look at their records, you know, for 17 and 18 to check on that. But I think that's, you know, that may have been the only game like that.

Yeah. I wasn't sure if they would or not because it's, you know, basically what the Naval Academies are going to be officers. And, you know, they're playing the regulars, and the guys are going to be the grunts, you know, playing them.

I didn't know if maybe they didn't want to cross those streams or not, but it's interesting. Yeah. So, you know, well, during World War I, you know, the different camps applied different rules.

Most of them allowed both officers and enlistment to play on the same teams. That was kind of unusual. The Navy and Marines were especially that way, but the Army was a little bit more, you know, keep them separated.

But anyway, you know, so, you know, 1918, they had the Spanish flu. And so a lot of what went on that season was to play any opponent you could find. Because things got so screwed up with the Spanish flu, and the, was SATC upended most of the schedule.

So it was kind of bizarre; it was probably the worst, the most bizarre season, even worse than the COVID season that we all went through recently. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, just in terms of strange schedules and craziness, 1918 was worse. So. Well, Tim is always, that's great stuff.

Now, why don't you tell everybody how they can get a hold and read your tidbits that you come out with every day? Yeah. So, you know, the site is footballarchaeology.com and the two ways to get access to it, if you're interested in looking at it daily, one is just to subscribe. You can bookmark it, obviously, if you want.

If you subscribe, you'll get an email sent to you with the article's contents every night at seven o'clock Eastern. Or you can follow me on Twitter. And again, you know, football archaeology there as well.

So either way, my preference is that you subscribe on the site because then make sure that you get whether you read it or not. At least I know you've received it. That's right.

All right. Well, great stuff, as always. And Tim, we really appreciate you.

And folks, make sure you visit footballarchaeology.com and do as Tim suggests, subscribe, and get that daily tidbit. It's really a great read each and every day. And you stay in football all year long.

And it's a really, really excellent way to do that. So, Tim, thanks a lot for joining us and sharing that story. And we'll talk to you again next week.

Hey Darin, I look forward to seeing you next Tuesday. Thanks.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

---

Imagine getting all of your equipment at the beginning of the long football season. Shoulder pads, pants and pads, and of course a helmet. You look and the head piece looks a bit funny... it has no chinstrap. This is how it was in one era of football, and FootballArchaeology.com's Timothy Brown explains.

From Tim's original TidBit article: footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-football-helmets-without">Football Helmets Without Chin Straps .

Timothy Brown, who runs the website footballarchaeology.org. The two discuss how early football helmets did not have chin straps. Instead, they had laces in the back to tighten around the noggin. These devices were not very effective in keeping the helmet on the player's head.

A company called Goldsmith, which was a major sporting goods manufacturer at the time, tried to fix this problem by creating a helmet with an adjustable back. However, this design did not work well and was soon abandoned.

In the 1970s, helmets with inflatable bladders were introduced. These helmets were more effective in conforming to the player's head, but they were still not as safe as today's helmets with chin straps.

The video concludes by mentioning that Timothy Brown's website, footballarchaeology.com, has more information about the history of football equipment.

-Full Transcript of the Episode on Helmets Without Chinstraps

Darin Hayes:
Welcome to Tuesday. Timothy P. Brown of FootballArchaeology.com is here to tell us a little bit about one of his recent tidbits. Uh, Tim, welcome back to the pig pen.

Timothy Brown:
Darin, thank you. Oh, it was a pleasure to be here and join you as we talk about old stuff, old football stuff.

Darin Hayes:
Yeah, most definitely, you had a recent tidbit that really caught my eye when it came out. I actually reread it a few days ago because it's just so fascinating. It's called the football helmet without chin straps, And it's, you know, something kind of peculiar that when we think of the football helmet, the chin straps are almost like an automatic part Of it in our day and age, and so it's very interesting what you wrote about, and I'd love to hear about it here in the podcast.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah. Well, so, you know, it's one of those funny things. Yeah, sometimes I've wondered, you know, how the name came about, like chin strap? I mean, now, chin straps are covering the chin, right? And then they connect up to the helmet with the two points on either side, but back, you know, that's really a post-1940 kind of look. Before that, that headgear, the wrestling-type headgear, and then, after that, you know, what we think of as leather helmets. For a long time, the strap kind of went from the ears and then looped under the jaw, not over the chin. Right? So, but I think they, I think, I think chin straps originated, I believe, on military helmets, and you know, so a lot of times they had them in military hats. So a lot of times they had those little straps, like kind of on the chin, a little bit below the mouth, that kind of thing. That's probably where that where the term came from. But anyway, so, you know, they had those original straps that were kind of elastic or cloth, they weren't, and they could tighten them. But, you know, they certainly weren't as good about, you know, keeping the helmet on the head as today's, you know, two or four-point, you know, chin straps do. Plus, the helmets are just tighter. So, you know, if you've got a leather helmet, you know, it can only conform to the head so much, right? I mean, if it's a little bit bigger, you've got it, you know, just nobody's had it shaped the same way, or no two people's are shaped the same way. So, you know, there's probably some little extra space here, little extra space there, in any given leather helmet. And so, you know, they used to come off. And so, so Goldsmith was, which was, you know, one of the original manufacturers of baseballs. They started back in 1875, and they were a big sporting goods manufacturer, at least till 1940. That's the last catalog I have of theirs. So, I'm not sure exactly how much longer they lasted. But so Goldsmith was trying to fix this problem. How do we keep helmets on? Because these little chin straps don't always work. So what they did was they got rid of the chin strap, which seems kind of dumb. They could have kept him, but they tried to make the size of the helmet adjustable. So they did that by putting it together like a drawstring system at the back of the helmet. And if you think about it, like, you know, we've all seen movies of like a Victorian woman who's getting her corset, you know, adjusted where they're pulling those straps and they're, you know, making her stomach, you know, look or make it look like she's got an 18-inch waist, you know, that kind of thing. So I mean, they basically had a system like that, or at least functionally, that was what it was supposed to do supposed to tighten the base of the helmet around the head. And so, but, you know, the fact of the matter is, it didn't work very well.

Darin Hayes:
You probably needed help getting your helmet on and off every time, I would assume.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, you know, I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, it could be that. Yeah, you had to, you know, so it's what's funny that you mentioned that it's like, you know, back at that time, players, the front of their football pants, also had those like leather patches, the thighs and well, probably typically twice on the thighs on each thigh. They basically had drawstrings to tighten the thigh or tighten the pants so that they didn't move all around, and then they'd get protected by the thigh pads or the pants. So, you know, they didn't have really good elastic back then. So it's a matter of, you know, pulling laces of one form or another to try to get things to fit. So, you know, somehow, you know, they tried to do that with the helmet. But, you know, it was they were gone from the catalogs in about a year or two. So it tells me the thing just didn't work. The concept made sense. And in fact, you know, in the 70s, when people started, like, I think it was, I believe it was right now that did it first, but you know, they had the bladder helmets, where you pump air into it, and it conforms to your head, whatever the shape of it may be, you know, so they were trying to do that same thing. They just didn't have the means to do it at the time. And so, you know, good idea, bad execution. And so then that just disappeared. But I, you know, I still haven't figured out why you would get rid of the chin strap. So, even if you have this other cool thing going on, why get rid of the chin strap? Because I've never read anything about people being bothered by it, you know, like the nose guards. Yeah, that was big, you know, everybody, nobody liked wearing the nose guard because they had difficulty breathing and that kind of stuff. But chin strap, you know,

Darin Hayes:
Yeah, I mean, it's a natural place to secure because you sort of got that hook shape under your chin. You know, it's a good anchor point to tie it down to your head and get a little tension on there. That's that's weird. Thank you.

Timothy Brown:
So sometimes, you know, some of the stories, I mean, again, I like the stories where, you know, as football evolved, there were all these dead-end paths, right? Just like in, you know, animal species, right? And, you know, so for some of them, the thinking behind the path made sense; they just didn't have the tools, technology, or the right materials to make it happen at the time.

Darin Hayes:
Yeah, you, uh, very, very interesting story, but just you describing the back of that helmet and the core whole corset idea, it took me back to some time playing like a junior high ball, you know, we got sort of leftover pants and one year I had drawstring pants for football where you had to tie them up. Like you tie your shoe. What a pain in the ass that was every, every day for practice for game day. It just, especially when you're like, you know, 11, 12 years old, you know, you don't want to take your time to snap pants even, let alone, you know, sit on time and take them up and, and if you didn't tighten them up, then you had, you know, your, your jock and everything else was, you know, flopping, falling all over the place. And it was just a bad, bad design. Whoever designed those pants. I didn't enjoy those.

Timothy Brown:
Yeah, well, and again, it's one of those things that, depending on your age, you may not have as much experience with. But, you know, back in the day, there were a lot of people on the football field with, you know, white athletic tape wrapped around their thighs or around their knees to keep things in place. Right. And so I, you know, I've spotted that kind of thing going on back to the 20s and 30s. So people, you know, even back then, they were tapping the same problem.

Darin Hayes:
Oh, I didn't. I never thought about that. Yeah, I guess I guess you wouldn't be able to do it, too. Then I'm always sitting, sort of thinking like athletic tape and duct tape. You know, the fabric tape is more of a modern invention, but I guess they would have had that back then.

Timothy Brown:
And they had, if you look at the old catalogs, I can't tell you it was the exact same kind of tape, but they had athletic tape and illustrations like Walter Camp, the football guides, they had illustrations of how to tape an ankle, that kind of stuff going back pretty far.

Darin Hayes:
So, yeah, very interesting. Thank God that they have the chin straps, but even with chin straps, and I don't know about you, but when I played early on, I don't even think I saw a four-point chin strap until maybe I was in high school or something, I think it was sort of a, you know, the late seventies type innovation, I think, or at least became popular at the levels I played at then. But you see so many people with the four-point head strap chin straps, and they still come, their helmets still come flying off, especially the NFL level and big-time big-time college; it's unbelievable that those can come off. Cause once you have those helmets on, if they're done rubbery, I mean, it's hard to unsnap them when you do want to take it off, let alone have it come flying off in the middle of the game.

Timothy Brown:
I hate to tell you this, but some of those guys are stronger than you and your buddies were.

Darin Hayes:
I realize I'm still a

Timothy Brown:
has a little bit more force. Yes.

Darin Hayes:
Still, that's a lot of stuff to pop a helmet on us. It's amazing, Tim. That is a great story and a great piece of football history that we, you know, seldom get to appreciate something like that and what the sort of forefathers of football had to go through to do that, and you talk a lot about this kind of items on your website football archaeology calm and want you to tell people a little bit about it and how they can enjoy footballarchaeology.com

Timothy Brown:
So it's footballarchaeology.com. It's a sub-stack website. So, if you're familiar with sub-stack, you can find me there. I also post on Twitter and on threads, but the site itself is a subscription site. If you subscribe for free, you get access now to about a third of the stuff, and with paid subscriptions, which are basically five bucks a month or $50 a year, you have full access to everything, including the archives. So, if that's what you're into, then subscribe away.

Darin Hayes:
Well, excellent job as always, Tim, and if folks, make sure you take advantage of what Tim's saying because there is really a plethora of information on football history. We get to talk a little bit about it, you know, each week, but Tim has so much more in there. I think, what did you say? Do you have over a thousand articles in there right now?

Timothy Brown:
Not quite a thousand, but it's getting close.

Darin Hayes:
Yeah, wow. That's uh, you know, four digits there, guys. That's, uh, that's some good stuff to look at football history from different angles. So Tim, we really appreciate you coming on, and we would love to talk to you about more great football history next week. Thank you

Timothy Brown:
Pretty good; look forward to it. Thanks, Darin.

-Frequently Asked Questions

-Who was the first player to wear a football helmet? We have your answer in our in-depth study ofFootball-Fun-Facts/Facts-about-who-wore-the-first-helmet">the first to wear a helmet.

-What is the history of each college team and their helmet designs? Check out many of them with our series College Football helmet history of schools.

-How come some teams have player numbers on their helmets? We asked this question too and had a college football expert historian help divulge helmet numbers history.

-Why do some teams like Michigan and Delaware look so odd and similar? It's really uncanny isn't it that the Wolverines and Blue Hens look the same, check this out for a reason Football-Fun-Facts/Helmets/History-of-the-Winged-Helmets">when helmets had wings.

-What do stickers on college football helmets mean? Some of them look really crazy but there is some goos reason for the extra adornments and we have the scoop Why all the stickers on some football helmets?.

---

Players can tell you that the surface condition of the turf they play on can make all the difference in a game and how they perform. Field conditions are affected by weather, surface, slickness, and even lawn care.

Long before the modern surfaces and machines we see football played on today, grass fields were the only surface that mattered. Have you ever considered how these playing fields were cared for and kept? Our man Timothy P. Brown of Football Archaeology has, and may we hear what he found out.

This discussion originates based on Time's Tidbit post titled: footballarchaeology.com/p/the-wretched-field-conditions-of-footballs-past-in-pictures?utm_source=publication-search">The Wretched Field Conditions of Football's Past - In Pictures.

-Transcription of Football Field Grass Cuts with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another evening where we get to discuss some football archaeology with the founder of that website, Timothy P. Brown. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Darin, thank you for chatting tonight, as we seem to do every week, every Tuesday. So yeah, looking forward to it. Yeah, I feel very blessed and honored to be able to talk to you every Tuesday and get this information that you share with us.

Just a few months ago, you had a very interesting topic on one of your tidbits about the field maintenance of the grass that was played on. There was no artificial turf; it was all natural grass, and we're very interested to know how they manicured their fields. Well, yeah, so I actually had an earlier one.

I think I probably have a link to it in this particular tidbit but about the terrible field conditions of the past. And so now we've got artificial turf, we've got prescription grass, and most fields have good drainage and watering systems as needed. And there's just other ways.

The fields are so well-maintained. Back in the day, especially in some stadiums that used to get really heavy use, if you just had one game or one weekend where it was rainy, the rest of the season, the whole central portion of the field was just mud or dirt. It just got torn up.

There's no way to avoid it. And that's one of the great benefits of artificial turf, which is that the central part of the field doesn't wear out, so it's between the hash marks. But back in the day, it sure did.

And so that's kind of a lost element of the game, or of the experience, both as fans and especially as players. But so I'm always looking at old yearbooks and other photo sources. And so back in the day, there were certain things going on in the field that you just noticed, and they were just like, what the hell are they doing there? And so obviously, the muddy fields that I just mentioned.

One of the ways that they try to maintain or dry out muddy fields is by tossing sawdust all over the field. And so I've got images, Yale Field, where there's sawdust all over the field. I'm just trying to draw it out or dry it out, I should say. And then they'd sometimes put hay on the field prior to the game, like if it was going to be icy, and then they'd rake it all off, so all kinds of crazy stuff.

So then once that dirt got all, well, once the field became dirt rather than grass, then you see in early pictures where they raked, you see all these lines in the dirt, and it's just because they raked, just to get all the clumps out and all that kind of stuff. And then, when it dried, the whole field was just dusty. So again, I've got a bunch of pictures of guys just stepping on the field, running around, and there are dust clouds falling; they all look like pig pens from the Charlie Brown cartoon.

But the other one that you see from time to time is long grass, which is, you don't see it as much, but there are times where it's like, I've got pictures of placekickers trying to kick off the grass, and it's like, the grass is literally like 12 inches tall. And so it's like, how the heck did they maintain the grass? Then I looked into that. And so initially, I'd have to make sure I pronounce this correctly, but I was asking, how did they keep football fields, baseball fields, parks, and lawns trimmed back in the day? And so the one way that they did it was with a scythe, which is like the Grim Reaper, with that pole.

A sickle type. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

And so, you know, so they had people up there, you know, cutting it that way. But then, you know, by like 1830, somebody came up with a mechanical lawnmower that pretty much, you know, looks like a real, and I mean real meaning R-E-E-L, so real mower that's used today, but obviously very clunky looking. And then, you know, they also had, you know, so there were the hand-pushed versions, and then there were the horse-pulled versions of these real mowers.

But from time to time, they also reverted back to more traditional methods, which was to bring in a flock of sheep, and you'd just put the sheep out there on your football field or your baseball field and let, you know, let them at it. And then you may have some new obstacles to try to avoid while you're playing. Well, you know, and that would make the grass grow.

So, yeah, and so... Nothing like a good turd tackle, that's for sure. Yeah. One of my brothers has a place up in California where, you know, it's basically a winery where the fields were so wet, or everything was so wet because of all the rain they had.

They brought in a bunch of sheep and just let the sheep go up and down between the rows, you know, eat back the grass. But, yeah, so, I mean, so you think about that, and it was even, you know, so for sure, I've got pictures, you know, it included a picture from like 1943 of sheep grazing in the Rose Bowl, trying to keep it back. And so, even like in the 40s, especially, you know, with gas rationing because of the war, you know, we saw a return to sheep grazing on athletic fields just to, you know, to try to keep it trimmed.

But, you know, I mean, there were like New Mexico, Loyola Marymount, places like that also, you know, I've got newspaper articles anyways indicating, you know, in the late 30s, early 40s that they were trimming their grass the old-fashioned way. Hey, just to put a comment, you know, the images that you have, and we have links to them in the show notes here, folks, and on Pigskin Dispatch from the accompanying article for Tim's images. In the image of the sheep on the Rose Bowl field, I think they got the black sheep of every family in that photo because I think there are two that look like they might be lighter color; all the rest are very colored sheep.

So, a lot of black sheep in that family. Well, there was; it may have been the breed because the article mentioned the breed, which, you know, I don't know one. I don't know my sheep breeds; I apologize.

But, so it may be that that was just a function of. Well, luckily for you, we just want to know about your football. We don't need your agricultural knowledge.

I'm not really good at the agricultural side. Now, that same image, the herdsman or the farmer that's caring for these sheep, he must be a pretty popular guy because it looks like he has like a five-gallon bucket of, I'm assuming, water for these dozen or so sheep to all drink out of. So, I'm sure they're very popular guy in the water.

So, I mean, the other thing, he could have had some grain in there. Then, tossing grain into different areas would attract the sheep to mow the whole field. Oh, okay.

Gotcha. I mean, again, I'm guessing this only because I saw a YouTube video of some guy in New Zealand who created a picture of a heart in his field, let the sheep in, you know, he spread grain in the shape of a heart, let the sheep out and they all went, and then sheep formed a heart. So, it is quite an art form to get your sheep to manicure your lawn.

That's right. All right. Well, hey, I'm even more glad this week, and I have to cut the grass with the modern conveniences we have today.

I'm not out there with a bucket throwing grain on my grass with a herd of sheep. So, although we do like those days, those were the days. All right.

I had a little, much harder time in many ways. So, we appreciate those pioneers of early football who took care of the yards that we played in and helped us advance to where we are today. And Tim, you have some very interesting, fascinating pieces of football that even go beyond the game and equipment like this, you know, caring for the field, which is, you know, you have to have a field to play on.

So, it's, you know, it has to be that. And I know one point I was going to bring up, too, is a really interesting study I saw just came out within the last week or so from, I believe, the National Football League on injuries compared on natural grass fields that are played in the league versus the artificial fields. There was a higher injury rate, as this study showed in the 2022 season, where people on artificial fields were injured more often, or more injuries occurred than they did on the grass fields.

And I don't know if you saw that, but it's kind of interesting to go back to old school, possibly. Yeah, I didn't see that. And, you know, I mean, obviously, when artificial turf first came out, it gripped so well that, you know, guys just blew out their knees all the time on that.

And it was like playing on concrete, you know, I mean, I mostly played on natural, you know, I played on one or two artificial turf fields that were fairly early in the development, and it was, you know, it was horrible. But anyways, yeah, I'm actually a little bit surprised by that result, you know, just because, you know, my sense is that the artificial surfaces have come so far. But, you know, there's a certain amount of, you know, there's kind of no going back on some of it, you know, if you're in a dome stadium, you're going to play on artificial turf, right? And then it's, you know, it's one thing to be on turf, you know, it takes, it just takes a lot of money from an ongoing maintenance standpoint to have a really well done natural turf, you know, so if you're the Packers or something like that, okay, you can afford it.

A lot of other places, it's just, you know, so I mean, anyone in the NFL can afford to do it if that's the right thing, right? Yeah, I know at Akershire Stadium, the old Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, they replaced the turf, I think, two or three times during the NFL season. Of course, the Pitt Panthers are playing on that. They have high school games, usually on Thanksgiving weekend.

They have four championship games or five or six now. I think they have levels playing on that field. So it gets tore up that time of year and they, they replace it within a couple of days before the NFL game.

And that's why you see so many famous games played at Pittsburgh stadium where chunks of the field are coming up, or they had a rainy Monday night game in Miami 20 some years ago, where the punter kicked the ball, and it came down point first and stuck right in the middle of the field and some things. Well, you know, that, that actually raises a point. You know, I don't know if the study was able to control for that, but you know, how long was the turf installed? You know, at the time an injury occurred, because, you know, turf that's been in there for months is different than turf that was installed last Monday.

Right. Yeah. I think it's; they just took an aggregate of the 17 games or, I guess, eight and a half games on average on each field and looked around to see how many state injuries happened at that field by the opponents, you know, both teams playing on it.

So I think that's how they studied it. And you know, it's got some, some, you can sling some arrows at it and shoot some holes in it, but it's an interesting study. And one, I know the NFL takes player safety seriously, as they do with most items.

I am so anxious to see where that leads us. Yeah. Interesting stuff.

Tim, your tidbits are, you know, bringing up items like this constantly every single day, sometimes a couple of times a day. Why don't you share with the listeners how they too can share in on all the fun of hearing these? Yeah. So, you know, best way is just to go to my website, footballarchaeology.com, subscribe.

And that by doing that, you'll, you'll get an email every night at like seven o'clock. I may actually push that a little bit later, but anyways, we'll get an email that with, you know, with the story for that, that evening. And, you know, if you, if you don't want the emails, then just, you can follow me on Twitter.

Yeah. So great subject. We really enjoyed having you share your knowledge with us, Tim, and appreciate you.

And we will talk to you again next week. Very good, sir. Look forward to it.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

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Identifying the top five players in Notre Dame football history is a subjective task, as different criteria can be used for evaluation. However, here's a list of five widely recognized legends who have left their mark on the program:

-1. Paul Hornung (1954-1956):

A versatile athlete who excelled as a running back, defensive back, kicker, and punter, Hornung won the 1956 Heisman Trophy, the only Notre Dame player to do so. He led the Fighting Irish to national championships in 1953 and 1954 and was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 1985.

-2. Joe Theismann (1967-1970):

A talented quarterback known for his athleticism and strong arm, Theismann led Notre Dame to a national championship in 1966. He was a three-time All-American and finished second in Heisman Trophy voting in 1969. He went on to enjoy a successful NFL career, winning Super Bowl XVII with the Washington Redskins.

-3. Jerome Bettis (1989-1992):

A powerful running back nicknamed "The Bus," Bettis rushed for over 3,000 yards for Notre Dame and was a two-time All-American. He won the Maxwell Award in 1992 and was drafted 10th overall by the Los Angeles Rams in the 1993 NFL Draft. Bettis later became a Super Bowl champion with the Pittsburgh Steelers and is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame.

-4. Tim Brown (1984-1987):

Considered one of the greatest wide receivers in college football history, Brown set numerous school records at Notre Dame and was a two-time All-American. He won the Walter Camp Award in 1987 and was the Heisman Trophy runner-up the same year. Brown went on to a stellar NFL career with the Los Angeles Raiders and is a member of both the College Football and Pro Football Halls of Fame.

-5. Raghib Ismail (1988-1990):

Nicknamed "Rocket," Ismail was a dynamic running back and kick returner who revolutionized the college game with his speed and agility. He won the 1990 Heisman Trophy and led Notre Dame to a national championship in 1988. Ismail also enjoyed a successful NFL career as a kick returner and is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame.

It's important to note that many other Notre Dame players deserve recognition for their contributions to the program's rich history. This list is just a starting point for further exploration of the legendary figures who have shaped the Fighting Irish into one of the most storied programs in college football.

Honorable Mention: Joe Montana, Elmer Layden, Knute Rockne, George Gipp, Johnny Lujack, Angelo Bertelli, Tony Rice, George O'Connor, Ross Browner, Johnny Lattner, Leon Hart, Emil Sitko

Check out the BleacherReport.com article for their top 50 selections of Irish Greats of the Gridiron.

---

Calling all gridiron gurus! Ever wonder how fans first paid a premium to watch football on TV? Today, we have historian Timothy Brown joining us to delve into the forgotten era of early pay-per-view for America's favorite sport. Buckle up and get ready for a touchdown worth of knowledge!

Broadcasters aren't entirely switching to paid subscriptions for NFL games. They're offering a mix. Traditional channels like CBS and FOX still air in-market games for free. However, for out-of-market games and exclusive content, streaming services like YouTube TV with NFL Sunday Ticket or ESPN+ are becoming increasingly important. The NFL is adapting to the changing viewership landscape, offering both free and paid options.

This conversation is based on Tim’s original Tidbit found at: footballarchaeology.com/p/football-and-early-pay-per-view-television">Football and Early Pay-Per-View Television.

Also available is the Podcast Version of "The Original Football TV Subscription Service with Timothy Brown".

-Conversation Transcribed on Football's Early Pay-Per-View TV with Timothy Brown

Darin Hayes: 
Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes at Pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. Welcome to another Tuesday, where we will go and visit with our friend Timothy Brown of footballarchaeology.com. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen. 

Timothy Brown: 
Hey, Darin. How are you doing? As you said, I am looking forward to chatting about pay-per-view. 

Darin Hayes: 
Yeah, I think you are because you told me just to have the video of you here. I had to pay you to, uh, to view it. So, so yeah, that, that money's in the mail. So don't worry, it's coming. 

Timothy Brown: 
Okay, good. 

Darin Hayes: 
is in cash, right? Yeah, it's a Canadian cash. Is that okay? 

Timothy Brown: 
That's fine. I live right across the river. So, okay. Well, good news. Canadian dollars. That's, that's great. Or loonies or toonies, whatever you got. 

Darin Hayes: 
Oh, he's got the whole vernacular done. All right, all right, Tim, you are referring to, of course, a tidbit that you wrote recently titled Football and early pay-per-view television. And that's an interesting thing, especially what we've been seeing here in the last year or two with the NFL, which is taking us into some different venues for watching TV. Maybe you could speak on those, the history and what's going on now. 

-Football and early pay-per-view television

Timothy Brown: 
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, this tidbit got published, and it looks like it was February. And so I published it in reaction to, you know, NFL games being on peacock. And, you know, for whatever reason, I get peacock for free. So it didn't bother me that games are on peacock. But, you know, it's a bunch of people who don't have peacocks. And, you know, I mean, there are different things. For example, I'm a big CFL fan. And I couldn't get CFL games for part of last year because they had switched their package. And, you know, so access to the games is a big deal, you know, and, even if you're a casual fan, you know, I mean, you want to be able to watch the game. So, you know, and, and just generally, we've become so accustomed to easy access to games, whether it's high school, college or pro, but especially NFL, you know, we were so accustomed to just, all you got to do is go to one of the major channels, and the game's going to be there. You know, it's just an assumption. And so, you know, part of the reason for writing this is because that certainly was not always so, right? I mean, the game was not always available. And so, you know, I mean, historically, football teams didn't have television money; they relied on the ticket sales or the gate; they got, you know if they own the stadium, they got some money for billboards, you know, from an advertising perspective, they got, you know, vent, you know, from vendors that were selling goods in the stadium. Later on, they also picked up the radio, but, you know, not a whole lot of money was coming out of the radio. So but the huge influx and, you know, yeah, it was certainly one of the several biggest influences in the game of Football, at least in terms of college and pro, was the influx of television money because it just funded so much in the way of salaries and specialized coaching and just, you know, just so many things that changed the nature of the game. So, but it's one of those deals where when we, you know, sometimes, you know, people look at history and say, well, okay, this is the way it happened. So that was the way it was going to happen, or it had to happen. And that's just not true. I mean, you know, it's as much history as much about what could have happened as what did happen, you know, because there's just all kinds of alternative histories of something else that had changed; it could have happened a different way. And so pay-per-view is one of those, you know, we think that the only way it could have happened, you know, as far as television rights and everything in college and pro Football is the way it occurred. But there were other, you know, other forces at work that just didn't play out as well. And so, you know, I use, you know, kind of that kind of background thinking, and then talk about the 1963 NFL championship game. And so even then, you know, so television was getting, you know, was starting to really run and, you know, they had already negotiated the, and, you know, probably the biggest turning point was that they got them, they basically, you know, Congress passed the, the whatever, it's the Sports Act of 1963, or whatever it was, but that basically, you know, gave antitrust exemptions to pro Football, that allowed them to negotiate league-wide contracts rather than franchise by franchise contracts, which is changed the dynamic, but, you know, still PPV was, was still out there. So, at the time, in 63, it carried on, and I forget when it finally ended. But, you know, NFL teams and NFL teams had blackouts. So, any game, like if you lived in Green Bay, or Pittsburgh, or Baltimore, or wherever you lived, you could not broadcast that game; you could not broadcast an NFL game within 75 miles of the site of the game. And so, you know, if, you know, basically, people never saw home games unless they had tickets because they wanted to force people to buy tickets, right? Because that's where the money was, the money wasn't the money, and it still wasn't in television; the money was in the tickets and ticket sales. 

Darin Hayes: 
I can tell you we still have blackouts here. 

Timothy Brown: 
What? 

Darin Hayes: 
They even black out when you have an NFL ticket. We're in Buffalo, the Buffalo Bills market here. We're within a hundred miles of Buffalo, a hundred miles of Cleveland, a hundred miles of Pittsburgh. So we sort of, if there isn't a way game for Buffalo, they have all the rights because they have to show the way games for Buffalo. Even if Cleveland is playing Pittsburgh in a rivalry game, we sometimes can't see that because of that. Now I had, I had pay-per-view, and I think it was Pittsburgh playing at Buffalo. It didn't sell out, and the game was blacked out in my area, even though I had the NFL ticket. So, they still black things out for the home teams. 

Timothy Brown: 
OK, so I didn't realize that was still going on. 

Darin Hayes: 
Oh, crazy. I don't know why, but they do. 

Timothy Brown: 
So, but OK, so I mean, if you live in an area like that, then, you know, then then it's the current experience for people. Right. But, you know, back then, it was so this: here it is, the NFL championship game. And in a darn good-sized city like Chicago, which at the time was probably the number three city in the country. Right. And the game is being televised. You know, it's played at Wrigley Field. So only forty-eight thousand people can get in there. And so what they did was, you know, this is, again, still the time when people are thinking pay-per-view is going to be the model. And at that point, there was kind of a it is pay -that something is going to happen in movie theaters. When I was a kid, there were still boxing matches that you'd go to the theater to watch. Or is it something that's going to happen at home? And so at that point, what it was, they had three locations like the McCormick Center, a big convention center like Chicago Stadium or something like that, and some big theater. But they had forty-eight thousand in Wrigley Field. They had twenty-five and a half thousand people in the history theaters to watch the game, you know. And, you know, if you live far enough outside of Chicago, then you just drove to the boundary line, and you went to a bar and watched it, you know, watch the game there. But so, I mean, it just tells you how many people would want to go watch a game and pay for it. And it was, you know, this game was the end of December. So if you went and watched it at a pay-per-view location, it was warm, which is nice, you know. And, you know, there were still a lot of people at that time predicting pay-per-view was going to be the model. Right. And, you know, we've talked about this before, where the idea is there, but the technology isn't to make it happen. Right. Whether that's equipment or broadcasting. And in this case, it was broadcasting. So there were people saying that what was going to happen was that they were going to be in a community. You'd have your television, and then you'd have an attachment on top of your television where you would feed quarters into this little box, you know, like a parking meter kind of thing, and get to watch some show for 25 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever it was. And but it was like, I mean, people were like, yeah, this is going to happen. And, you know, then it's like, well, who the hell is going to come around and collect all these all these quarters? You know, you've got to make sure somebody is home to get in their house to collect them and but actually, actually, after writing this, I found out there was actually one city, I forget where it was, but there was one city, at least, where they actually had this whole system set up, and people would go around and collect the quarters from people's houses. It's just bizarre. But, you know, again, this is, you know, there weren't credit cards, there weren't magnetic strips. I mean, there were credit cards, but there were paper, you know, there were no magnetic strips. There's no subscription, and you can't pay by the Internet. There's no streaming, you know, all that kind of stuff. Things we take for granted today. So you can't hear it? Well, why didn't they just stream it? Well, you know, there was no streaming. Right. So anyway, I just think it's really fun to kind of look back at that. But it's this thing of, you know, it's, you know, what they call the naturalistic assumption just because you can't get an ought from it, just because something is that way. It doesn't mean it ought to be that way or had to be that way. And so, you know, that's kind of the history that is written by what happened, largely by what happened as opposed to what could have happened. You know, so yeah, it's just an amusing, amusing episode. 

Darin Hayes: 
Yeah, definitely. Did they call it pay-per-view in your area when you were growing up? Here, they called those for boxing, wrestling, and anything like that. It was called Close Circuit TV. 

Timothy Brown: 
Yeah, I think most people call it the closed circuit. But yeah, actually, closed circuit. Another thing about football, you know, there was a period, actually, mostly in the early 60s, where maybe it was a little bit earlier, maybe it was the late 50s too. But there was a time when people's football coaches started using closed circuit technology to watch game film while the game was going on, or game tape. And they do it on the sidelines; they do it up in the booth. And then they finally axed that because at the college level, they axed it more for money. You know, it just became an arms race, you know, a technology arms race. And then the NFL just said, boom, no more of this. So that is the underlying reason why even today, I mean, people now have the pads and iPads on the sideline. But basically, 

Darin Hayes: 
You get the sponsor; it's Microsoft Surface. That's the only thing else. Yes, yes, sorry. 

Timothy Brown: 
My bad. Well, the NFL police were coming to your sponsorship rights, not mine. I've got my socks pulled up all the way, by the way. Um, so yeah, but you know, so, I mean that whole thing of not having technology on the sideline originated during this pay-per-view and closed circuit, you know, same, same technology, same underlying technology and time. 

Darin Hayes: 
Yeah, I guess the other question is that it's more of an ethical question. I know you said in the beginning that you have the free peacock, and you got it on. Well, I have the free version of Peacock, and I couldn't get that game. They, they, they wanted me to pay the, whatever, $5, $7 a month, uh, to join their, their peacock hub or whatever the hall it is to watch this. I was one of the ones that, uh, I, I said, just on the purpose of it. I said, why, why can I watch every other playoff game? And I can't watch this sub-zero game with the Dolphins going to Kansas City. 

Timothy Brown: 
Well, so, like myself, I do ESPN Plus because that gives me access to the college games for basically an FCS kind of school that I, you know, follow; I get their Football and basketball that way. And in the past, it gave me access to a lot of CFL games. So you know, it's like, I'll pay that, you know, to get access, right? I have that as well. Yeah, but, you know, I don't think it'd be a tough call for me to pay more money for something else just to watch a couple of games here and there. 

Darin Hayes: 
Yeah, I don't know where they plan because I know they plan on doing more games this coming year on that same thing. And I heard they might be because I think every team is going to be playing a game out of the country. That's what they had in 17 games. So, every team will eventually lose one home game. I don't think it's going to be fully that way this year. But I think they may be doing that to those games, not just in 2024 but years beyond that, I heard, where you can't go to the stadium. And the only way you can watch your team is to do, you know, Amazon; you have to have Amazon Prime where you got to have peacock, or you have Paramount or whatever there, whoever else is going to join the club here for viewing televisions. 

Timothy Brown: 
you know, we'll see how all that stuff works out. I mean, you know, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, I think, generally the the availability has increased the popularity, you know, over time. And now, they're starting to try to figure out, okay, is there still a way to make even more money? And, you know, maybe they're gonna kill the golden goose, but, you know, that's for other people to decide. 

Darin Hayes: 
Yeah, right. And I didn't even see what the numbers were. I don't know if they made them public or what the numbers were for that peacock game. I would have to believe they got a small portion of what they would have normally gotten if it had been on NBC. 

Timothy Brown: 
Yeah, I don't know, you know, I don't, you know, I, I watch, I'm pretty religious about watching my favorite teams, but for the, the average, you know, Sunday afternoon NFL game, I don't watch much of anything. You know, I'll watch a little bit here and there, but not really. 

Darin Hayes: 
Yeah. All right. Well, Hey, I mean, it's a great story, and it's something that's, uh, you know, sort of coming true in our lifetime here. So we may have to be facing that more and more as we go on. Cause I know there's at least two or three games this coming season, regular season and playoff games where they plan on having it, uh, you know, well, there's Amazon every week. So, I guess we are paying for it now in some respects. People don't have enough Amazon to pay for that, but yeah, it's coming. And, uh, you know, like I say, the NFL is a billion-dollar industry for a reason. And that's, uh, they know how to make money off folks like us. That's for sure. Um, we'll see. Yeah. Right now, Tim, you have, uh, you know, some great pieces of history, just like you spoke about here, uh, that you write about on a regular basis. And, uh, you, you have, I believe, a thousand of them now. Maybe you could share with the listeners and viewers where they can enjoy some of your writing. 

Timothy Brown: 
Yeah, it's footballarcheology.com. It's a Substack app or Substack newsletter blog. So just go there, subscribe. You'll get an email every day, or not every day, but every time I publish. And alternatively, you can follow me on Twitter, on threads, or on the Substack app. And at least you'll get exposed to what's out there. 

Darin Hayes: 
All right, Tim, we really appreciate you sharing this story with us and enjoy having you here each week, and we hope to talk to you again next Tuesday. 

Timothy Brown: 
Yeah, look forward to it. Thank you. 

The magic of American football isn't just about the high-energy games or the roar from the stands. It's about the heartfelt romances that bloom both on and off the field. In this article, we will delve into the romantic (or not exactly) side of football and the famous players that have colored its history. We're peeling back the helmet to reveal the more tender side of the gridiron—where love scores its own kind of touchdowns.

football_game_-_DPLA_-_3e8d7e1f5a63771757128193095c746b.jpg">Photo Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons, Ohio State vs Mich. State Oct 1979 | AD

-The history of football is intertwined with tales of passion, heartbreak, and enduring love

From the gritty early days on muddy fields to the sleek modern stadiums, romance has always been a part of football's DNA. Back when leather helmets were a thing, players might have been icons of toughness, but they were never immune to love stories. These stories are about fleeting hookups and relationships that helped define and sometimes redirect the lives of those involved. Through the ups and downs, the heartbreaks, and the touchdowns, the heart of football beats strong.

Today, the scene has somewhat shifted, with online dating storming the field. With platforms buzzing about "hot girls near me" and online match-ups. Fans cheer from the sidelines and swipe right in hopes of connecting with someone who shares their passion for the game. It's not uncommon for fans to find each other through dedicated football dating sites, turning shared team loyalty into a starting point for relationships. These connections sometimes lead fans to unexpected encounters with players themselves, blurring the lines between the stands and the field.

-The Golden Ages of American Football

The 1960s through the 1980s marked a vibrant era in American football, transforming players from mere athletes to bona fide national icons. This period, often dubbed the "golden ages" of football, celebrated players not only for their on-field heroics but also for their glamorous and high-profile romantic escapades. The personal lives of these athletes garnered as much spotlight as their athletic prowess, creating a fascinating blend of sports and celebrity culture.

During these decades, figures like Joe Namath and Terry Bradshaw became household names for their football skills and well-publicized love lives. Namath, famously known as "Broadway Joe," was notorious for his swinging bachelor lifestyle, which was as striking as his fur coats. Bradshaw, on the other hand, coupled his rugged charm with a string of high-profile relationships, cementing his status as a heartthrob of football. Their stories, and others like them, fed the media frenzy and public curiosity, making football history not only about scores and championships but also about romance and personal drama.

-Iconic Power Couples

Fast forward to more recent times, and some football players continue to capture our attention with their standout relationships. Take Russell Wilson and Ciara, for instance. This duo is famous enough as a brand, a partnership that forms a powerhouse coupling that commands the spotlight.

Their relationships are not just red carpet appearances and social media posts. They blend personal life, sports, and entertainment in a way that resonates with fans across the world. They manage to keep their relationships strong amidst the hustle of professional commitments and the glare of public scrutiny. These stories of romance and resilience add a human touch to the idols we see on the field, reminding us that they, too, are just humans.

-Tumultuous Affairs and Scandals

One of the most talked-about scandals in football romance unfolded with New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and actress Bridget Moynahan. In 2007, this high-profile pairing dramatically hit the headlines. Moynahan and Brady had ended their relationship when she announced her pregnancy. This news came as Brady had just begun dating supermodel Gisele Bündchen, setting the stage for a media frenzy.

This love triangle was a feast for the tabloids. The media played no small part in blowing up the story. Every detail, from secretive texts to public spats between the involved parties, was dissected and discussed. This relentless coverage turned personal drama into a public spectacle, affecting the player's focus and performance on the field.

The consequences for Brady were significant. While his on-field performance remained stellar, winning multiple Super Bowls with the Patriots, his off-field life was under constant scrutiny. Endorsements dried up as brands distanced themselves, fearing the negative association. The player's relationship with teammates and coaches is strained, showing just how quickly off-field issues can bleed into professional life.

This scenario is a stark reminder of the harsh spotlight athletes face and the fine line between personal freedom and public responsibility. It demonstrates how personal decisions can become a public spectacle and their lasting impact on the personal and professional lives of those involved.

-5. Main lessons and tips to build relationships with players

Dating a football player is not for the faint of heart. It comes with its set of challenges, from managing public life to understanding the intense pressures of the game. Here are some real-talk tips for those rolling through this high-profile dating:

-Understand the game: football-tactics-explained-best-most-used/">Knowing football, its demands, and its schedule can help you understand why your partner might be MIA during training camps or stressed during playoffs.

-Privacy is key: Keep your personal life low-key. The less the paparazzi know, the better. This means fewer chances of your relationship drama becoming tabloid fodder.

-Support system: Be the solid support your partner needs. Whether it's a loss on the field or media criticism, showing that you're in their corner can make all the difference.

-Set boundaries: Discuss what is okay to share publicly and what stays private. This mutual understanding can prevent a lot of drama.

-Stay grounded: It's easy to get caught up in the glitz and glamour of the sports world. Keeping it real with your partner ensures the relationship stays genuine and doesn't become just another spectacle.

-Conclusion

Love and football is as old as the sport itself. These relationships, whether they end in fairy tales or scandals, highlight the intensely human aspect of athletes who are often seen only as sports figures. The stories of their romances remind us that behind the superhuman feats on the field, there are personal lives full of the same passions and pitfalls that touch us all.

In the end, these tales of love—joyous, tragic, or scandalous—offer a glimpse into the emotional drives that can influence not just a player's life but their team, too. They remind fans and spectators alike that at the heart of every game, human stories are unfolding.