Darin Hayes 00:00
Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome to another special bonus edition of the pig pen on a pick skin daily history dispatch podcast. This episode of The Football by Numbers is focused on the best NFL players that ever wore the number 26 in the NFL. This is a number with some big names attached to it in NFL history. Yeah. But I'm quite fortunate tonight because I have an expert to join me in this endeavor. And he is no stranger to studying topics about the NFL. Yes. We are joined by Chris Willis, an accomplished author of, multiple books on NFL subjects, such as Red Grange, Joe Carr, and Dutch Clark, just to name a few. And did I mention he has maybe one of the best jobs ever, as he is the head of the NFL films research library? A matter of fact, with NFL films, he has been nominated for a couple of Emmys and even won the award for his work on the 2016 season, hard knocks program on the Houston Texans. Chris Willis, welcome to the pig pen.
Chris Willis 01:00
It's nice to be here, so thanks for having me on. I'm excited to talk about, you know, some football history with you.
Darin Hayes 01:08
Oh, we were excited to talk about two with the number 26 is we have a tough job tonight. But before we get to that, I'd like to just talk to you a little bit about your job because it is very interesting to me and I'm sure to the listeners. It just makes our ears perk up for football fans. Are you able to share with us what a normal day looks like as being the head of the NFL Research Library for NFL Films?
Chris Willis 01:33
Sure, yeah, I mean, I started in 1996, so it's been 25 years within FL Films. And my mainly day -to -day chores are just help from the producers find the research for their projects. So, you know, whether it's a documentary or a short piece, you know, whatever material they need, whether it's footage, we do have a print library, you know, books magazine, you know, so can't find everything online. So, you know, we have a print library, so anything they need to get started on their shows, you know, they come to the library, they come to me, and I sort of get them started or steered towards what they need and stuff. And then every once in a while, like Hard Knocks, I'll be assigned to work on the show. You know, I don't edit a lot, you know, I usually just do a lot of research and handle the research library, but every once in a while with some of our other shows, you know, I sort of pitch in, and Hard Knocks is always a fun show to work on. It's a grind, it's five weeks, you know, it's nonstop footage, it's every day, you know, but it's a fun show to be a part of. So, yeah, so that's mainly my day -to -day chores, you know, at NFL Films.
Darin Hayes 02:44
I'm sure the hard knocks has got to be some long hours during those five weeks also.
Chris Willis 02:49
Absolutely, yeah. So, I mean, I'm not up as much as our senior producers and our direct and obviously our directors who are on site, who use a shoot, you know, you know, almost 20 hour days 18 to 20 hour days. But, but it is a grind but like I said it's such a good show to work on and a lot of people love it. You know, people love that behind-the-scenes type of look and feel so. So, it's an honor to work on that show.
Darin Hayes 03:13
And it's a great show to watch too, it's very enjoyable. Now being at NFL Films for 25 years, you were able to work with the folks that put the NFL Films on the map in Mr. Ed and Steve Sable. What an amazing time and had to be very educational for you working with those two.
Chris Willis 03:33
Absolutely. I started right when Ed was retiring. So I didn't have as much experience with Ed. He would visit every once in a while and come back in the building. So I had a lot more interaction with Steve. Steve was great to work with. I mean, he was awesome. You know, he's you think he's the president, you know, but he was always around. His door was always open. It was never locked or shut. You know, you never saw him in the hallway. Like if you had a football question, a filmmaking question, you know, anything like that. He was always around to help you out. And so it was a tremendous privilege to have him in that building and to bounce ideas off of, you know, he would stop by the library and say, you know, he always asked, hey, do you need something, Chris? You know, like, he was always looking to make your job better. You know, I saw him do it with the producers and he did it with me. He said, hey, do you, what do you need? What's what's going to make your life and your job, you know, better, you know, you know, because he he was all about making the best football films. You know, filmmaking and making the best football films. He lived for that, you know, so he wasn't like just a figurehead or pop up on TV. He loved filmmaking and just talking film. So yeah, it was it was a privilege to be around him until he passed away to experience that and learn from him.
Darin Hayes 04:47
It sounds like he must be as genuine as he was portrayed on television that we watch as he is in person then because he seemed like he was pretty high energy and very passionate about the game.
Chris Willis 04:58
Absolutely. I mean, that was, yeah, that was who he was. And that came across. And like I said, he cared about you. You know, whether you're like that, whether you run the research library, whether you're a 40 year veteran, or whether you're working on hard knocks, whether you were just doing a small little banquet piece that 50 people were going to watch at a banquet. He was there for you and help, you know, help you make everything better because he knew what you were doing was representing enough of films and he wanted NFL films to be first class and you know so yeah so what you saw on TV. What you saw as a genuine person, that's who he was day to day.
Darin Hayes 05:31
Well, they started a great thing and you folks there today are continuing the great legacy because you have a great thing going there at NFL films and we really appreciate the work you do. We have a real tall task tonight so we better get started here as we have the most substantial players in the NFL's 100 plus years of history that wore the number 26 on their backs and we got to our challenge is to come up with a top 10 that we can agree on for the best of the best that wore that jersey number. Are you up for that challenge tonight, Chris?
Chris Willis 06:04
Absolutely, yeah, it's like I said, it is a deep list and but it's a yeah, I'm up for it. Thank you.
Darin Hayes 06:09
Okay. Now, generally where we start off is the pro football hall of fame sort of gives us a leg up in our discussion as they've identified six and shrine players that were the number 26 at some point during their pro careers. And the pro football hall of fame says that her battery, Patty Driscoll, Benny Friedman, Paul Kraus, Tyler, and Rod Woodson all wore the number. Now, there's a little bit of controversy there, because in my research. Patty Driscoll, I could not find him wearing the number 26. And I went to my friend and I'm sure you know him, Josie Emba, who is like all things Chicago football, especially the Cardinals. And, you know, Patty Driscoll played for both the Cardinals and the Bears, and Josie Emba went through all his game programs that he owns and all the books he has, and he could not find Patty Driscoll in the number 26 in the NFL either. And I don't know what you found in your research.
Chris Willis 07:04
No, I mean, if it was, it was just for like one game. I don't, you know, he wouldn't be on my, he's not on my top 10. So, I mean, if he wore it for more than the season, then yeah. You know, I mean, Driscoll was one of the best triple threats, you know, two -way players of his era. But if he only wore it from one game or maybe two get like that, that doesn't make the top 10.
Darin Hayes 07:29
Yeah, I agree with you there. Okay, so really got five of those that we're gonna really focus in on, I'm sure then. If maybe that's a good place to start is to start with our Hall of Famers and just, you know, present them and tell a little bit about them if you don't mind.
Chris Willis 07:44
Yeah, no, I mean, it's a good list, but like Driscoll, I think Friedman falls in that same category. I mean, Friedman's great too. You know, like I said, probably the first great, you know, quarterback and passer, you know, in NFL a little bit before Sammy Paul, you know. But Freeman only wore it three years too. And they were at the end of his career, you know, with the Detroit Panthers, and he wasn't actually very good, you know, his best years are with Cleveland Bulldogs and the New York Giants, you know, where he was lightened up. So I took that in consideration where, hey, you know, you actually have to be as productive in the number two, you know, just because you wore it, you know, so Driscoll like Friedman sort of fell short for me because I think Friedman's best years. It's almost like Adrian Peterson, if you saw, he wore 28, but he wore 26 the last two years, you know, but, you know, they were decent years, but they weren't his production wasn't his 2000 year. So, so I would lean towards them not making the cut. Obviously, for me, I mean, they're number one and number two on my list is her battery and Rod Woodson, you know, so there's no question. Right. I mean, I would put them at one and two for wearing New Jersey number. So, you know, if we're gonna have to slam dunks then those are probably your two slam dunks. So, for me, especially for Hall of Fame, you're gonna start with that list. Now Kraus is an interesting one. I don't know how you, how you feel about Paul Kraus. He wore the number in his first four years with the Redskins did not wear it for the Vikings. Now he was super productive in those four years, right with 28 picks. So, I, he, he's borderline for me, you know, I have to see how you feel about him. Just because I think, as we get into some of these other names, especially the running backs, quarterbacks are very heavy with the number. He sort of, he starts up there like, Oh, I want to put him up and then all of a sudden he starts sliding down, he starts sliding down, you know, because I look at these other players and like, you know, four years with the number. Does that, you know, I mean, I'll just throw a name, I will probably get to somebody like Raymond Claiborne. Well, he played 15 years, very productive. He's not a Hall of Famer, but, you know, he's with the Patriots, 15 years wearing 26. I might put him ahead of Paul Kraus, you know, I know Kraus the Hall of Famer. And, you know, before year, it's for the four years production because it's better years were with the Vikings, you know, you went to some Super Bowls, he was on a Super Bowl type of defense. And he affected that. So, so for me, like I said, Kraus kind of slides down as we get into some of these things.
Darin Hayes 10:26
But the only thing that I agree with you about Kraus, but the only thing that's compelling about him is he was an all pro three times, but two of them were in those first four years with Washington and he was wearing that number 26 there. So, you know, so half his time of wearing the 26, if you look at it that way, he was an all pro. So that's kind of interesting. And two of his eight pro bowls, he was wearing a 26. So he indeed had four productive years with that number on, but like you say, you have people like, you know, Claiborne wearing it for 15 years and some others that are wearing double digit years that were that number their whole career. Yeah, that makes an interesting discussion for sure. And I also definitely agree with you with Rod Woodson and Herb Adderley being automatically one and two on our list, but maybe before we get too far into the others, maybe we ought to just bring up some of the stats of Herb Adderley and Rod Woodson.
Chris Willis 11:27
Yeah, I mean, I mean, Adderley, obviously, you know, it's huge, you know, 12 years. He wore the number with the Packers and the Cowboys, you know, 48 picks. He had five Pro Bowls. Um, but for me, some of the, some, or at least the added bonuses, I do think you should help your team, you know, uh, you know, so his, you know, what six titles or seven, you know, like he, he, he, he won one Super Bowl with the pack or one Super Bowl with the Cowboys and then he wins, you know, what five championships and two Super Bowls with the Packers. I mean, he's a part of this great franchise, you know, um, and that's very impressive to me, you know, in the safety with Woodson, I mean, Woodson won a Super Bowl, uh, you know, 17 years and he's got over 70 interceptions, 11 Pro Bowls, you know, six all pros. He was a member of the 75th and a hundredth anniversary team. So, uh, our 75th anniversary. And then, um, so you can't be any better than that, you know, you know, and he had a lot of the interception returns for touchdown, you know, he's part of the really good Steelers defense is part of really good, you know, Ravens defense, you know, later in his career. So, um, you know, so those two, they're so special, you know, special players, you know, I mean, uh, you know, what you could actually return kicks to, you know, especially early in his career, he was a really good returner, uh, kick returner. So, um, so those two players and they played to position as well as anybody. I mean, they were technicians, you know, you couldn't catch the ball on them. You know, you, you know, they would never be out of position, you know, things like that when you watch them play and you watch them on film, like, you know, there's a lot of things they didn't do wrong. You know, they were always in the right spot. Their technique was always gray, you know, so it was, they're two tremendous players. I mean, like I said, when you think of court, just quarterbacks in general, let alone wearing a number 26, they're, they're up there as top, you know, five or you can even put them in the top five, top eight of all time, you know, cornerbacks and stuff. So, you know, and Woodson actually played a little safety later in his career. So, uh, you know, tremendous, even just all around player and stuff. So, so, you know, uh, that's why when we started this number, those are like your two slam dunks, you know, okay. Adderley Woodson, uh, now my bottom eight, now the next eight, now we get a little bit into, like I said, people might have crowds up. Oh, no, he's like, you know, I don't, like I said, I'm not even sure where Kraus makes my top 10. So, um, uh, but those two were definitely, you know, by far head and shoulders above everybody else.
Darin Hayes 13:58
I totally agree. And one added note, you know, I'm, I'm from Western Pennsylvania and a Steelers fan. So Rod Woodson had one of the greatest restaurants ever when he was in Pittsburgh. And that was, you know, we were sad to see Rod when he, he left and went to some other teams in the NFL, especially to the, the rival Ravens, you know, eventually, but his restaurant leaving that was, that was a big tragedy too. Cause that was quite the hotspot in a station square to go do before games. Great food there and some great adult beverages as we'll say. Okay. Well, like you said, we're going to get into some interesting waters now. Those two are definitely, definitely in. Now we've got eight more to select from and we've got a whole bunch of defensive backs and running backs that we're going to have to scan through here and try to figure out who comes up next in the tops. Now I was thinking maybe we should talk about them as a position groups to go through them and maybe check off some people that, okay, they're still in contention or maybe this person's off and then go through the other position group and then try to collaborate on coming up with those other eight positions. That sound fair enough?
Chris Willis 15:09
Yeah, that's fine. Sounds good.
Darin Hayes 15:10
Okay, you want to go with the defensive backs first?
Chris Willis 15:13
Yeah, yeah, I think they're, they're a smaller group than the running backs, but still, you know, but I like the names. Yeah. So, yeah, I think the, the only safety, you know, that it had in the equation. I think there's a couple, it's George Sains, who I think is a little underrated, you know, I mean, sort of gets lost. But, you know, 10 years with the Bills, he's part of those two AFL championship teams in 63 and 64. Then he played for the Broncos his last three years, you know, 22 interceptions, he had five Pro Bowls, you know, three AFL All -Stars, and to be a part of a two time sort of AFL champion, you know, I think he was, you know, like I said, he's the only safety that I might put in the equation. I mean, obviously there was, there's guys like Chuck Cecil, Dick Jaron, who played a little bit, or War 26, you know, we're decent players, the same, like I said, when you combine some of his All -Stars and his Pro Bowls, I mean, five Pro Bowls. And then he also helped the Bills win two championships. I think he makes the list as the safety. And then cornerbacks, then there's two cornerbacks, I thought that stood out above the rest. There was like Michael Downs was one player that I looked at, but he had no Pro Bowls, you know, so I thought, wow, that's very odd. The guy played very good for Cowboys in those years in the eight, especially in the eighties, you know, had a lot of interceptions, you know, almost 10 years with the Cowboys, but he didn't have any Pro Bowls. He wasn't a lead, you know, to where, to me, Antoine Winfield, who played 14 years as the corner, and Raymond Claiborne, who we mentioned a little bit earlier, played 15 years, mostly with the Patriots in his last two years in 90, 91 with the Browns. I mean, he's 15 years since 36 interceptions. He has three Pro Bowls and one Super Bowl appearance. And Winfield was similar, you know, 25 interceptions, had three Pro Bowls. So, like I said, there's definitely a notch below Adderley and Woodson, but you're talking about two, I mean, both of them almost played 15, I mean, Claiborne played 15 and Winfield played 14. They were physical players, they played good in the run, and in the past game, I mean, Winfield was only like five, nine, 180 pounds, and he was really good in the run game. He could play the past game as well as anybody. He could play man, he could play zone. And Claiborne was a very good, you know, cornerback, you know, you know, throughout the 70s and the entire 80s. So, to me, they're very similar. I mean, as we get the running backs, the running backs are really similar, you know, it's gonna be tough to separate, but to me, Claiborne and Winfield were the same as the safety. Claiborne and Winfield as cornerbacks were ahead of guys like Michael Downs, Casey Hayward, who's a current player. You know, Dick Jaron was a safety, you know, I think even Ray Rhodes wore number 26. And if you know, Monday Night Football, it was Riddick wore number 26, but their careers weren't quite at the level as Claiborne and Winfield, although their name people know Riddick Rhodes as a coach, and Riddick as an announcer and as a scout, you know. But to me, Claiborne, so, you know, like I said, Adderley and Woodson are up there, the same as the safety, you know, head shoulders and then you have Winfield and Claiborne, you know, sort of the sort of next level, you know, worthy of top 10.
Darin Hayes 18:49
I don't disagree with you there. Now, just to mention, we said earlier about Ty Law. Ty Law only wore the number 26 for one season in 2009. And I think he was with, he wasn't even with New England when he wore that, he wore it with the Denver Broncos. So I think he's probably, even though he had some great numbers too as a defensive back, so if there's listeners out there saying, hey, you know, you said Ty Law, well, that's probably one of the criteria only wearing it for one season that maybe doesn't put him on that list with guys like Clay Bourne and Winfield. Did you agree?
Chris Willis 19:26
Oh, no, that's why I forgot he was in that modern I focus in on the two -way players with Driscoll and Friedman but law was the same way, you know, like Like I would put Kraus just ahead of law cuz Kraus like that was the four years and he had some of his more Better individual years. He didn't have the Super Bowl success or at least get into Super Bowl like the but law Yeah, I mean law is a great player But as twenty six like to me like say to me clay born in Winfield For their longevity and the way they played was much more than law. So So the law would not make the cut either
Darin Hayes 19:59
They were a much more substantial number 26 than law was in his one year or Krauss in his four years. I agree with that. I agree with that. Okay, is there any other DBs that you want to bring up?
Chris Willis 20:12
I don't think so.
Darin Hayes 20:15
I had some names like, you know, van McElroy had nine seasons. We're number 26 with the Raiders, you know, his numbers, he had 111 games, 31 interceptions, one touchdown. Uh, you, you talked about, uh, same, uh, uh, Benny McRae, uh, were the number 26 for 10 seasons with the bears and one with the giants, 133 games, 27 interceptions, four touchdowns. There're just some numbers to throw out there. I'm not sure that they make the list, but definitely they were substantial players that were the number 26, just like, uh, you know, uh, Michael Downs. And I think you said, you mentioned Charles Rhomes also.
Chris Willis 20:52
I've been to Chuck Cecil. I didn't mention Rome, so. OK.
Darin Hayes 20:57
Charles Rhomes, y 'all.
Chris Willis 20:59
I've been to Casey, Casey Heywood's a modern guy wearing 26. Okay. But you know,
Darin Hayes 21:04
Rose is another one worked for 10 seasons with Buffalo, 156 games, 28 picks and a score. So they're all about the same type of statistics, same about of, you know, those three gentlemen I just talked about, but not sure that they make the list. They definitely don't surpass that windfield or Claiborne, but what they did, I don't think.
Chris Willis 21:25
Yeah, no, I yeah, you know they were always a little less on the list as I was going through it. Yeah
Darin Hayes 21:33
Okay, well, I guess it's time to get into this running back hoard we have here because there are some good running backs in here and it's gonna be I think some tough decisions here to make. And some of them, their numbers kind of surprised me. I don't know if the same happened for you.
Chris Willis 21:50
Yeah, I mean, for me, when I looked at the running backs, I mean, the list kept increasing and increasing. I'll talk about the guys who I thought, I mean, there's two, there's three guys that came up very short. So I'll mention them. One's a modern guy who maybe five years from now, if we do this again, he's up on this list. But Saquon Barkley, you know, it's just like I said, you know, just not enough of a career yet to know, but I would assume maybe he's in that discussion. Like I said, Adrian Peterson only wore it, I think the last two years, you know, so they come up short. A guy who I liked, like I said, when I first saw, you know, some of the players at war, especially from the running back, I'm like, oh, but he was very limited. I think it's only like four years in the NFL, really, was Lionel, little train James, you know, with the Chargers, you know, very explosive, you know, unique player, but he didn't do as for as long as I thought, you know, I was like, wow, and it was really like two monster years. You know, he had some of the kick returns too. And so I liked him, but I was like, well, he comes up way short when you start mentioning some of these other names. And the other one who we go back to the fifties is John Arnett, you know, of the Rams and stuff, Jaguar Arnett. So his stats are really good. You know, he's seven years. He had over 2 ,800 yards rushing, 4 ,800 yards from scrimmage, 36 total touchdowns, five Pro Bowls, and then the one All -Pro. And then he did some kick returns too and stuff. But it was never, you know, like I said, it was a very good player at the time. But with some of these other names, you know, like just like Kraus, he started just getting bumped down, bumped down a little bit, you know. For me, there's two names that stood out. I'll talk about them initially, who I really like. Obviously, Clint Portis, you know, nine -year career, over 9 ,000 yards rushing, 11 ,941 yards from scrimmage, including receiving 80 total touchdowns. He was offensive rookie year, two Pro Bowls. You know, helped two franchises along the way. You know, he was very good with the Broncos, you know, and very good with the Redskins. So I think he stood out a little bit better, especially when you talk about, you know, Le 'Veon Bell and maybe Deuce McAllister, who was similar era. Portis, to me, was a little bit above them. And for me, just because I think his versatility, and he did it for two teams, you know, his numbers, maybe, you know, they're not bad, you know, but to me, Wendell Tyler was tremendous. You know, was a tremendous player with the Rams, you know, with the Super Bowl, and then did it with the Rams and the Super Bowl, and then did it with the Niners, especially the 84 team. I mean, he was very dynamic, both in the run in the past game. That's why Walsh liked him a lot, is that he could use him in the past game too. You know, he fumbled a little bit, but he made up, and he was one of the most unselfish players, like, especially when they brought him in, they also drafted Roger Craig, and they played Craig at fullback, and they played Tyler at halfback. But they were somewhat interchangeable at times, you know, like with Craig. So Tyler, at that point, you didn't have a lot of halfbacks blocking for the fullback, but in Walsh's system, they would. They would go out for passes, they would block for each other, you know, and stuff, and Tyler would do it, you know, and he was very unselfish, you know. His 10 years, he only made one Pro Bowl, but, you know, over 6 ,300 yards rushing, 8 ,100 yards when he counted receiving, you know, 66 touchdowns. I mean, that's a lot of touchdowns for a guy who, you know, played for just, you know, 10 years is still a long time, but near the end of the career, he got beat up a little bit, you know, in 85 innings. So those 66 touchdowns came in, like, eight years, you know, so, or even his rookie wasn't. So I liked...
Darin Hayes 25:48
That, that number surprised me with how many touchdowns he had. I didn't expect, you know, I knew he was a great back. I didn't realize he had quite so substantial yardage and touchdowns. That kind of shocked me.
Chris Willis 25:59
I mean, you look at Lady on Bell, Bell's great. I mean, Bell's, you know, over 6400 yards rushing, he's almost nine, over 9 ,000 yards, but he's only got 48 touchdowns, you know? You know, he's got the three pro balls and obviously the two all pros, but he's a great, you know, dual threat, you know, out of the backfield, you know, he can catch and run, but, you know, when you look at it, well, he's only got 48 touchdowns, you know, and Wendell Tyler had 66, you know, and they're approaching about the same amount of years now, you know, so, yeah, so I think Wendell Tyler, you know, wearing number 20, like I said, like I said, he was very good at the Rams, he was very good with two teams. It wasn't just one team. He was very good two teams. I like Portis and Tyler. They're sort of slam dunks for me. And even Lady on Bell, I mean, he's the next on my list. I mean, definitely very versatile, was, you know, dynamic player there for a couple years. He's kind of slowed down now, you know, missing that year. I think missing that year, I think really killed his momentum of being, you know, a borderline Hall of Fame guy if he kept it up and stuff. So he's versatile, like I said, if he's close to over 9 ,000 yards total, but for 48 touchdowns, you know, and the three Pro Bowls and the two All -Pros, you know, it was a very good, you know, so he makes my top 10. And then we get into a couple more names. If you want to hear these names. Now, these guys are like, like I said, they're all similar guys. I had a very hard time separating them. You had Lydell Mitchell, who played for eight years. He had 6 ,500 yards rushing with 30 touchdowns, over 9 ,700 yards, if you include receiving, and 47 total touchdowns, and he made three Pro Bowls. And he elevated that colt steam. That colt steam was somewhat competitive in the 70s, you know, with Bert Jones and Roger Carr. So he did help the team a little bit. Then he had Robert Smith, who was seven years. He retired kind of early. He was 6 ,400 yards rushing, 30 touchdowns, only 7 ,536. So he wasn't as involved in the past game as maybe like Dell and Tyler were, you know, two Pro Bowls. And then Deuce McAllister for me, eight years, over 6 ,000 yards rushing, 49 touchdowns, and then 7 ,800, if you count as receiving yards, and 54 total touchdowns, two Pro Bowls, and helped elevate that team in the 2000s, you know, to be a little bit more competitive. So those three, like I said, when I started adding the quarterbacks and George Sames was my one safety, all of a sudden, now all of a sudden, I got a little bit of jumble here with, I think Bell makes my top 10, but then Mitchell Smith and McAllister, you know, I mean, if you take some of the guys I've mentioned, you know, I think that's 11 names. So somebody's definitely coming off, you know, I think Bell and Mitchell for me are on the list. So then it comes down to Robert Smith or Deuce McAllister. So I don't know how you feel about some of these guys.
Darin Hayes 29:12
Well, I mean couple observations, I was surprised how LaVeon Bell so far in his career is almost identical in statistics to Lydell Mitchell. That kind of surprised me. The big difference was Mitchell having more touchdowns receiving than LaVeon Bell. I would have thought that would have been the other way. And also the rushing, Lydell Mitchell had 10 less rushing touchdowns than LaVeon Bell has so far. But if you look at the end of their stats, Mitchell has 47 total touchdowns. Bell has 48 touchdowns. They both have just over 9 ,700 yards of total offense. So they're a very similar player up to this point in their Bell's career compared to Mitchell's entire piece of work here. So those two are the ones I'm teetering on. But it's pretty dramatic. It can be 4 .8 yards per rush. 44 touchdowns, a year less than what we're looking at Bell and even Mitchell. And he's right there with them in touchdowns and just about 1 ,500 behind in total offense. Boy, it is a tough one. And the same thing with McAllister. He was more heavy on the rushing portion of his yardage and his touchdowns. That's where most of those came. It wasn't as productive in the passing as the other ones were. But there's another name worth mentioning. I don't think he's to the caliber of what we've just been talking about. But Preston Pearson came up on my list, at least to be under consideration because he wore the number for 14 seasons. He played with multiple teams, including Steelers and most famously with Dallas. And he's another one. He was pretty much a backup running back on all those teams. He was behind Dorsett, was behind Franco Harris and still had some productive numbers to a total of 30 touchdowns, 6 ,700 yards. But like I say, I don't think he makes that list of 10. So let's go. Okay. So you're at 11. I'm probably right in that same ballpark with like the same names. But let's go for sure our ones that we're in. We're saying Woodson and Adderley are definitely in. And we both agree that George Sains should be in the third spot. And I think we're both in agreement that Claiborne and Winfield should both be in. Correct? Yeah. So that takes us to five. Now we got those other five names to come up. And it's basically these running backs or maybe one of the DBs comes up into it. I'm sorry, Clinton Porters is another one. I think we both agree on.
Chris Willis 32:18
Yeah. And Tyler, did you want Tyler?
Darin Hayes 32:20
Oh, yeah, in Wendell Tyler. Yes. Yes. Yes. So that's okay.
Chris Willis 32:23
two, three, four, five, six. So yeah, so yeah, so to me, those seven were clearly, those were kind of like my seven. Okay. And then and then Bell was eight. So so okay.
Darin Hayes 32:37
Okay, I agree with that. I agree with that.
Chris Willis 32:39
Yeah, so then it comes down to me, Mitchell, Smith, and McAllister. So I would say Mitchell is my ninth, like you said, I agree with him. I think his number surprised me. I think he was a very good player, you know, and did a little bit more overall than you think, you know, you know, like I said, he's similar to Lady on Bell. And most people who probably follow the modern game think Bell is great. Like, oh, wow, he could do everything. Well, Mitchell was a similar player just 20 years earlier, you know, so, or 25 years earlier. So Mitchell will probably be my eighth. So it comes down to what, Smith and McAllister?
Darin Hayes 33:20
and possibly Kraus.
Chris Willis 33:21
So unless, oh Crouse, yeah, to me Crouse comes up short. That's what I said. He kept going down and kept coming down. So unless you like Crouse better than Smith or McCallister, I mean, maybe I'll leave that up to you. So, cause I can go either way. I could, I could have went either way with Smith or McCallister. I think my gut's the same, like you said, cause I think if Robert Smith didn't retire early, cause I think he was healthy enough. He had a very good year his last year. I think he ran over 1500 yards his last year. And my gut says if he replaced two more years, you know, he could literally run for 10 ,000 yards. You know, I mean, he was already at what 7 ,500. So at least nine, like he's up there with Cordis and he's more of a slam dunk, you know, then he might be closer to 50 touchdowns too. And that's much more impressive than maybe what McCallister mentioned. So.
Darin Hayes 34:13
I agree with you. I think it should probably be Smith because I just, what he did in his body of work in those seven years is a tremendous, you know, 4 .8 yards per rush. That's pretty substantial.
Chris Willis 34:24
Yep.
Darin Hayes 34:26
Okay. So one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Okay. I'm missing. I have nine names down. So I'm missing somebody that we, so let's only go through them again. Woodson, Adderley, Portis, Mitchell, Lavion Bell, Wendell Tyler, Robert Smith, Antoine Winfield, and George Sainz. Yeah. So I'm, so Clay Bourne's only one you've missed. Clay Bourne, I mean, okay. That's what it was. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, I think we did it. I think that's our 10 best that as of right now in NFL history that wore the number 26 that worked for some period of time. We had some good criteria there and a great discussion. That was fun.
Chris Willis 35:12
No, I liked it. That's when you when you invited me and you said you and you gave me a couple hot and I looked I thought 26 would be very fun to Debate so so I was glad that we got a good number that That had some names like that. Yeah, cuz like I said, there's some names that I kind of forget like, you know Like Wendell Tyler and or that they're not whole famous like Wendell Tyler Lido Mitchell To me and Raymond Clay, but like, you know few guys that stood out like hey These are really good players that happen to wear 26, you know that there might not be Hall of Famer They might not ever make the Hall of Fame, you know, but they're really good play They're really good football players Like I would want Wendell Tyler on my football team or Lido Mitchell They were good football players that you could you would want on your team
Darin Hayes 35:54
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, before I let you go, and I appreciate you helping us out in that endeavor, with these number 26's but you are, I mean you have quite a few books out there right now. Matter of fact, I just told you before we came on I'm getting ready to read your Red Grange book which looks fantastic. What do you have going on right now do you have anything projects coming up or any books that we can look forward to.
Chris Willis 36:22
Um, actually I do. Okay. Excuse me. Um, it's along those same lines as Red Grains, if you like, especially the 30s, and especially Chicago Bears. I'm working with the Nagurski family. So I'm writing a book on Bronco Nagurski and his life, you know, so they liked what I did with Grains and sort of wanted that sort of same type of treatment. So I was like, yeah, you know, he's an interesting guy. Um, you know, not only with the NFL, he was a world champion wrestler to, uh, in the 30s. I mean, he actually quit the NFL to do dressing to make, he could make more money wrestling, you know, you know, in 1937, 38. Uh, so he went into wrestling and he actually came back for one more year during World War II to play, which is an interesting thing. Uh, but yeah, so I'm sort of back in, in with the Bears a little bit, that history and Bronco's life and stuff. So, um, so, so it's been really good. So as of now, uh, I'm actually starting the writing process here in March. Um, my deadline's in October, so we should see it sometime in, um, like the fall around training camp of 2022, you know, next, next year or so. Uh, um, so if you like Grains, if you like Dutch Clark, it's probably going to be similar to that type of story. Um, you know, with a definitely really interesting, you know, uh, a guy in Bronco Nogersky.
Darin Hayes 37:48
Yeah, that definitely sounds, I mean, there's a lot of connections, uh, cause they were Grange and, uh, Nagurski were teammates for, for some period of time too, with the bears.
Chris Willis 37:58
Absolutely. Yeah. A couple of years there, you know, where they won championship, they won championships in 32 and 33. And then the sneaker game in 34, which they could have won, but they lost with the switching of the sneaker, the cleats, the sneaker. So that's one of the great stories in NFL history right there. Yeah. Never gets old.
Darin Hayes 38:15
Yeah, that's for sure. Now, how about I mentioned a few of your books at the start, and we just talked about a few here. I know you have a plethora of other ones if you want to plug some of those two for the listeners.
Chris Willis 38:26
Yeah, I mean, I like all my projects, but like the Red Range one that came out in 2019, when the NFL celebrated its 100th year, was a very interesting project, so I recommend that one. It's a little in depth, it's over 400 pages, but it tells the story of sort of the NFL's first superstar. One of the other big favorites of mine is one of Joe Carr and NFL in the 1920s and 30s. I think people don't realize how influential he was. When the league got started in 1920, they elected Jim Thorpe as the president, but he was mainly just a figurehead. He was an athlete, he was an administrator. When Joe Carr from 1921 to 1939, before he passed away, almost 20 years, he's the one that sort of laid the foundation with contracts, territorial rights, the rule book, I mean, actually, as much as I love NFL films, well, he actually did an NFL instructional video in 1938, where they said, this is what the NFL, this was 30 years before NFL films was founded, and they did an instructional video. He did the first record of fact book. So he sort of does these things that the NFL sort of leans on now, sort of the building blocks. So that project was very interesting to do. So like I said, that's one of my all -time favorites. So like the Grange and the Carr and the Dux Clark book, if you're interested in that type of era players, I sort of relate it to some people, if you're a baseball fan, these are names like Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig and Christie Masterson. Like if you know baseball history, or even if you don't, you know the names of Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth, well, Dutch Clark and Joe Carr and Red Grange, these are similar people in the NFL. And so if you're looking to learn about that type of history, I think these books sort of provide that. And that's why I like doing them. They sort of preserve that history for future generations. As much as I love the game now, I mean, I love watching NFL and Sundays, I love reading about Joe Montana and Jim Brown and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, but some of these old sort of pioneers, they deserve their sort of stories being told too. So that's why I like sort of grab them, just because not people, I would say, but some people don't know them quite as well as some of the modern players, and they deserve sort of that, that, their recognition.
Darin Hayes 40:56
I agree with you. That's sort of a magical time and you know, you have almost everybody was a two -way player. So you had to be good on offense and defense. You know, you had linemen kicking field goals and drop kicks and, you know, all kinds of crazy things. Very little padding or equipment safety wise or rules to protect players as it is now. You know, men went men playing a football back in those areas. Sure. It's very nostalgic and very interesting to a lot of people. And I'm sure you have a lot of people enjoying your book. So we got some great things to look forward to in the future with you. We got a lot of good reading to catch up on for my part. Sounds like a lot more books than I anticipated. I got to get to my library to read up on because this is some great stuff. And Chris, we really appreciate it. Do you have any social media or anything you want to throw out there if anybody wants to follow you?
Chris Willis 41:46
Yeah, I'm on Twitter, you know, it's CD, CD Willis 83. So if you go on Twitter, I post things about my, my projects, but I also post a lot of football history stuff, you know, I wrote, and I also write for a website called profitable journal, I'm assuming maybe some of your listeners know profitable journal, dot com, you know, john tourney does a really good job with that. So I write some articles, especially when I have time, you know, you know, that, you know, life, and, you know, work and family and everything else, you know, I wish I had a little more time to even write as much as I do, to contribute, but I know tourney does a really good job with that website, because it's all about history. It's not, you know, like, there's enough websites to find the news of the day and the transactions and fantasy and stuff like that. But if you're looking for a little quick, you know, read here and there, you know, so profitable journals. So, so those type of things, you know, you could check out online or social media.
Darin Hayes 42:44
Okay. Well, once again, we appreciate you taking the time to spend with us for this episode. It was very interesting. You had some great detail and knowledge that you shared with us, and we really appreciate it. And we hope to have you on again real soon on the pigskin dispatch.
Chris Willis 42:58
All right. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.
Darin Hayes 43:00
Thank you.
