Football History

While Notre Dame's gridiron history is adorned with the names of flashy running backs and prolific passers, the foundation of any successful team is built on a strong offensive line. Edgar Miller, a stalwart tackle for the Fighting Irish in the early 1920s, exemplifies this principle. This essay explores Miller's impactful career, examining his role in Knute Rockne's revolutionary offense, his contributions to national championship runs, and his lasting legacy within the Notre Dame football program.

-A Pillar of Stability: Anchoring the "Seven Mules" (Early 1900s-1924)

Born in 1901, Edgar Miller arrived at Notre Dame possessing a powerful physique and a natural aptitude for football. Under the tutelage of the visionary coach Knute Rockne, Miller blossomed into a dominant tackle. He became a key member of the famed "Seven Mules" offensive line, a unit renowned for its strength, cohesion, and ability to pave the way for the explosive "Four Horsemen" backfield. Miller's unwavering presence on the left side of the line created running lanes and provided crucial protection for the likes of Don Hutson and Jim Crowley. His relentless blocking and tactical intelligence were instrumental in the "Seven Mules'" success.

-A Champion on and Off the Field (1922-1924)

Miller's impact extended beyond individual accolades. He was a leader within the offensive line, setting the tone with his work ethic and dedication. His quiet confidence and unwavering focus were admired by teammates and coaches alike. During his tenure at Notre Dame, the Fighting Irish established a national powerhouse under Rockne. Miller played a vital role in their undefeated season in 1924, a campaign culminating in a thrilling Rose Bowl victory. His contributions were a cornerstone of this historic achievement.

-From Player to Coach: A Legacy Beyond Notre Dame (1925-1974)

Following his playing career, Miller transitioned into coaching. He served as the head coach for the United States Naval Academy from 1931 to 1933, compiling a respectable record. Miller then spent over four decades at Navy as the line coach, leaving a lasting impact on countless players.

Miller's coaching philosophy emphasized the fundamentals – a reflection of his own playing style and the values instilled in him by Knute Rockne.

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Born May 22, 1907, in Chicago, Illinois, was Washington tackle of 1929 to 1931, Paul Schwegler. The FootballFoundation.org reflects on how the Washinton Huskies football program was not very good during Schwegler’s time there. In fact they won only 12 of the 27 games played. But the play of tackle "Schweg" Schwegler, a native of Raymond, Washington, helped ease the pain and reverse the trend.

Despite Washington's lack of success, selectors were unable to overlook Schwegler, naming him to no less than 43 collegiate all-star teams.  In 1931 Paul was a first team All-America choice that year as well, and went on to be named the defensive standout of the West squad in the 1932 East-West Shrine game. Paul Schwegler received the great honor of being selected for inclusion into the College Football Hall of Fame in 1967.

Being inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame is a mark of unparalleled prestige and accomplishment. It signifies that a player has not only excelled on the field but has also left a lasting legacy that transcends generations. This honor is reserved for those who have demonstrated exceptional skill, leadership, and impact in collegiate football, shaping the sport’s history and inspiring future players. Remembering these inductees is not just a tribute to their remarkable careers but also a celebration of their enduring influence on the game. Their stories and achievements serve as a beacon of excellence and a testament to the profound role they’ve played in elevating college football to new heights.

Kentucky’s football history is a rich tapestry woven with memorable victories, legendary players, and groundbreaking moments. This legacy is filled with significant achievements that not only shaped the university’s sporting narrative but also left an indelible mark on college football.

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With each passing decade, Football-History">Kentucky football has evolved, creating unforgettable moments that inspire pride in its fanbase.

-Early Beginnings of Kentucky Football

Kentucky’s football journey began in 1881, marking the start of over a century of iconic moments and achievements. With their first recorded game taking place on November 29, 1881, the team experienced growing pains as they developed their style and presence in collegiate football.

By 1896, Kentucky’s football program began to formalize under Coach W.R. Bass, one of the first major names in Kentucky football. Bass led the team to their first recorded win against Kentucky University, securing a 6-0 victory.

Under Bass, Kentucky laid the groundwork for what would become a tradition of competitive football. His leadership saw Kentucky’s first major win, building confidence in a program that would go on to reach greater heights. The early years may have lacked national attention, but these formative seasons were critical in developing the future successes Kentucky would achieve.

-The Adolph Rupp Connection

Though Adolph Rupp is more widely known for his legendary coaching of Kentucky’s basketball team, his influence was also felt in the football program. His tenure helped foster a culture of winning across all sports at the university. Rupp, serving as athletic director, was key in bringing high-profile coaches to the football team, such as Bear Bryant in the late 1940s. This move dramatically shifted the program’s trajectory and would define a new era for Kentucky football.

The arrival of Bear Bryant in 1946 transformed Kentucky football. Under his leadership, Kentucky achieved its first SEC Championship in 1950, finishing the season with an impressive 11-1 record. Kentucky also defeated No. 1 Oklahoma in the 1951 Sugar Bowl, ending the Sooners’ 31-game winning streak. Bryant’s time at Kentucky remains one of the most successful periods in the program’s history, solidifying the university’s place on the national stage.

-Breakthrough Moments and Players

Throughout Kentucky’s history, several key players made lasting impacts on the program. George Blanda, an all-time football great, was a quarterback and kicker for Kentucky from 1945-1948, before going on to have a remarkable 26-year career in the NFL. His leadership and play style made him one of the early legends of Kentucky football, cementing his status as a key figure in the university’s legacy.

One of the most notable figures in modern Kentucky football history is Tim Couch, who played from 1996-1998. Couch set multiple records during his time as a Wildcat, including the single-season passing yards record with 4,275 yards and 36 touchdowns in 1998. His leadership on the field earned him a spot as the No. 1 overall pick in the 1999 NFL Draft, making him a key figure in Kentucky’s football narrative.
-Historic Bowl Appearances

Kentucky’s football program has also made notable bowl appearances that have shaped its history. One of the earliest significant wins came in the 1947 Great Lakes Bowl, where Kentucky defeated Villanova with a score of 24-14, marking their first-ever bowl game victory. Following this, Kentucky participated in several major bowl games, including the 1999 Outback Bowl, where the Wildcats faced Penn State in a hard-fought contest.

These bowl appearances played a critical role in establishing Kentucky’s football tradition, serving as benchmarks for the program’s progress. Kentucky’s success in these high-stakes games demonstrated the team’s resilience and capability to compete at the highest level.

-Mark Stoops’ Era and Modern Success

The hiring of Mark Stoops as head coach in 2013 brought renewed energy to the Kentucky football program. In 2018, under Stoops, Kentucky achieved its first 10-win season since 1977 and secured victories over prominent teams such as Florida and Tennessee, restoring Kentucky’s competitive edge in the SEC.

Stoops led Kentucky to a remarkable 10-3 season in 2018, culminating in a 27-24 win against Penn State in the Citrus Bowl on January 1, 2019. This marked Kentucky’s first New Year’s Day Bowl win in 70 years, establishing Stoops as one of the program’s most successful coaches. His achievements have solidified Kentucky’s place in modern college football, with numerous victories over top-ranked teams.
-Memorable Rivalries

One of Kentucky’s most storied rivalries is with Louisville, a rivalry that spans across multiple decades and is fiercely contested in the Governor’s Cup. First played in 1912, this rivalry has provided countless unforgettable moments, with Kentucky holding a winning record in the series.

In 2019, Kentucky defeated Louisville with a dominant 45-13 victory, showcasing the strength of Stoops’ team and continuing the tradition of competitive games between the two programs. These rivalry games remain a central part of Kentucky’s football identity, fueling the passion of the fanbase.
-Stadiums That Shaped Kentucky Football

The iconic Kroger Field has served as the home of Kentucky football since 1973, evolving alongside the program itself. Originally named Commonwealth Stadium, this venue has witnessed many of Kentucky’s most significant wins and milestones.

Over the years, Kroger Field has undergone multiple renovations, with the most recent updates completed in 2015, which included a new playing surface, expanded seating, and modern amenities. These improvements have ensured that the stadium remains a state-of-the-art facility, reflecting the growth and modernization of the football program.

-Impact of Fan Support

The dedication of Kentucky’s fanbase has played a pivotal role in the team’s success, providing unwavering support even during challenging seasons. The Big Blue Nation is known for its passionate following, creating an electric atmosphere at home games and traveling en masse to support the Wildcats on the road.

For those looking to relive these moments and more, Fanatics Sportsbook Kentucky offers exclusive betting options, enriching fans’ experiences by connecting them directly to the state’s celebrated football legacy. Fans can engage more deeply with the program through a range of opportunities that bring them closer to the action on and off the field.

-The Future of Kentucky Football

With continued success under Stoops, the future of football/">Kentucky football looks promising. The team’s recruiting efforts and recent on-field achievements suggest that Kentucky is poised to remain a formidable force in the SEC for years to come.

The Wildcats’ recent success has been marked by strong recruiting classes and impressive victories. Looking forward, Kentucky is focused on maintaining its competitive edge and furthering its progress toward consistent championship contention.

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Two of the more popular teams in the NFL based on jersey sales are undeniably the Kansas City Chiefs and the Dallas Cowboys. Their active and passionate fanbases are mobilized and outspoken and the players are some of the best on the planet. But where did these teams arise from?

Journalist John Eisenberg wrote a book on the shared rise to power of the Chiefs and Cowboys in his book: Football-ebook/dp/B008P96Y2Q/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B3M3PR6KCCUL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.-x8X4MgNXncMV_ybgaigFq2T1EPaerg5Lhc8xfpkvvWSdLM9E7TlEFRbcVo_sFvy.E5eYi-9eZvQMOG2bk5rGEfl45XUA4zLeLeW3i1ArMqA&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ten-Gallon+War%3A+The+NFL%27s+Cowboys%2C+the+AFL%27s+Texans%2C+and+the+Feud+for+Dallas%27s+Pro+Football+Future&qid=1717237139&s=books&sprefix=ten-gallon+war+the+nfl%27s+cowboys%2C+the+afl%27s+texans%2C+and+the+feud+for+dallas%27s+pro+football+future%2Cstripbooks%2C187&sr=1-1">Ten-Gallon War: The NFL's Cowboys, the AFL's Texans, and the Feud for Dallas's Pro Football Future

-Transcript of Ten Gallon Wars with John Eisenberg

Darin Hayes
Hello my football friends. This is Darin Hayes at pigskindispatch.com. We are here once again to talk about some great football, professional football level today, and a very interesting book that was written by the author, John Eisenberg, one of his multiple books on the game of football. It's called 10 Gallon War, the NFL's Cowboys and the AFL's Texans, and the feud for Dallas's pro football future. We'll bring him in right now. John Eisenberg, welcome to the Pigpen.

John Eisenberg
Well, thank you for having me; I'm looking forward to it.

Darin Hayes
I am, too, because this is a very interesting topic. But before we get into your book, maybe you could just tell the listening audience a little bit about yourself and what brought on your football fandom.

John Eisenberg
Well, I grew up and am a native Texan. I grew up in Dallas and was born and raised there as a Cowboy fan. You know, I always tell people, you know, don't don't throw stuff at me too hard. But you know, I came by naturally; I grew up in their family and had season tickets from literally when the Cowboys began in 1960. So I'm a real one. And after college, you know, I got into sports writing as a career. And I actually worked in Dallas for five years there at the afternoon paper there at Dallas time, Cheryl, I did not cover pro football. But, you know, I did cover a lot of cowboy games and all that stuff. And then, in 1984, I made a big move to Baltimore Sun, where I got a column; I've been a columnist at the Baltimore Sun for 25 years. So, I did a ton of pro football there. But I got there right when the Colts were leaving. And so there was over a decade without football in Baltimore, and did a lot of Super Bowls and other cities, teams, and all that stuff. And then, of course, the Ravens came to town. And I've been covering the Ravens ever since. As a matter of fact, since 2012, that's where I write; I left the newspaper business a little over a decade ago because I've written these other books; I had that sort of secondary career. But yet, the Ravens actually bought me lock, stock, and barrel, you know, my opinions. They want me to write an opinion on their digital platforms, good, bad, or indifferent, and it's been very interesting. But I've been doing that for a decade. So, you know, I've just been an opinion maker in the Baltimore market for many, many years and been around a million football teams and players and games. And, you know, aside from my daily stuff, I've done, as you mentioned, a bunch of books.

Darin Hayes
Uh, this is going to be a very interesting dynamic in our conversation. Cause I don't know if you know, I'm from Western Pennsylvania, a lifelong president, and a Steelers fan. So I'm talking to somebody from Dallas who was born a Cowboys fan, who was sort of, uh, I grew up with that, that nemesis of, you know, the three Super Bowls played against each other and, uh, and now the Ravens, uh, the arch enemies of the Steelers, this is going to be really interesting. So this is a get some great perspective here for me.

John Eisenberg
I would like to be your worst possible guest.

Darin Hayes
Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. It's great when you can agree or disagree on things. And that makes conversations more interesting, I think. So I think this will be extremely interesting. So we'll have to talk a little bit about Ravens-Steelers if we have some time at the end. Now, let's get into your book. The one book that we want to talk about today is from your hometown, the Dallas Cowboys in Pro Football. And maybe you could start off by explaining where the beginnings of pro football in Dallas were and what the climate was like for pro football in that city.

John Eisenberg
Well, what's amazing was in the late fifties, there were no teams there. Dallas, you know, is now such a huge football market, but it is not one of those original markets where there were NFL teams like Pittsburgh and other places going back to the Depression and whatnot. But by the late fifties, of course, pro football was taking off. And there were a lot of cities that wanted in. Most of them were on the south way, you know, the Sunbelt, where there was starting to be some money. And certainly, in Texas, there was a ton of money, oil money. These wanted to be into pro football, but the NFL was reluctant to expand George Halas and those guys, as well as Art Rooney and Pittsburgh. They'd spent a lot of years not making any money. They were finally making money. And they were hesitant to carve up the pie. Really is what it comes down to. They trusted each other, but they weren't sure who else they should trust. So they didn't want these cities to come in. So, you know, Lamar Hunt is a 26-year-old kid who is a native of Dallas. He's the son of probably the wealthiest man in America. His father was HL Hunt, an oil man. Lamar and HL actually assumed that Lamar would go into the oil business. But Lamar was a sports nut. And he was from the beginning. He was a football player. He was a third-string end at SMU in the 50s. And he didn't want to go into the oil business. He wanted to go into football and the NFL. But those guys basically patted him on the head, Halas, and said, you know, we like you; we like your money. But we're not going to bring a team to Dallas. And so he made the decision, you know, that's what led him to form the AFL, which was that the NFL wouldn't let him in. And so that's sort of where it all started. Honestly, the roots of the whole AFL and the changes in pro football and everything that came out of that started because Dallas had no teams, and Lamar Hunt wanted one and didn't get one. So that's really where it all began.

Darin Hayes
But I don't; I didn't realize that Lamar Hunt was so young when he started his endeavor, and that's really some, having some brass tax at 26 years old. I don't know if I'd be thinking that big when I was 26 years old. I don't know about you, but that's really quite an endeavor to go to the NFL, even though it was a little bit smaller than it is now, and then start your own league when they don't accept you; that's a tremendous drive that he had to do that.

John Eisenberg
I think he was kind of naive. To be honest with you, I think he was not super competitive about it. He originally thought, well, they won't let me in. He was a very kind-hearted guy. And he was like, they're not gonna let me in. So I'll just do my own league. We won't, and maybe we don't even have to compete with them. He was really naive in that he was like, well, there's room for another league, we'll just have another league. And not realizing, of course, that the NFL people just freaked out when, you know, the possibility of another league. So, but I think when he started, he was like, oh, this will be fine. This will be great. We won't bother them. And they won't bother me. Honestly, incredibly naive.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, I guess so he probably didn't look back a decade earlier at the AFC when they competed and ended up getting absorbed pretty much and had franchises eliminated when they were merged in the NFL so not a great track record for rival leagues against the NFL.

John Eisenberg
The NFL cared a lot about who the rivals were. And, you know, very quickly, realized we're getting a little ahead of it. But the people that he brought in had some money; the AFL people, Lamar, of course, had more money than all the NFL people put together. And so did Bud Adams, who started the Houston Oilers. And, you know, they had a lot of people, not all of them, but they had a lot of people with money. And so right off the bat, the NFL said, who, this is a real challenge. And so that's where things got started.

Darin Hayes
Okay, now, you also say in your book that there was another franchise that was trying to be started in Dallas about the same time, maybe if you could talk about that group or owner and the team.

John Eisenberg
Which are you referring to? I mean, there was there was an NFL team in Dallas in the early 50s. You know, there was, you know, there was that team, the Dallas Texans, that, Yeah, not.

Darin Hayes
It's the original Dallas Texans, but it's the start of the Cowboys franchise.

John Eisenberg
Oh, that. Yes. Well, yeah, I did. I didn't want to.

Darin Hayes
spill the beans too early on.

John Eisenberg
Oh, that other team. Yes, well, yeah, Clint Murchison was the oil man that eventually started the Cowboys, and he had been in touch with the NFL as well in the late fifties before there was a team, and the NFL was reluctant to expand, but sort of talking about it. He had been in touch with Halas and Rooney, and those old guys all knew him, and those guys all loved him. He was also from the oil business. He was this little, wise-cracking, bespectacled guy who was on the cover of Time Magazine at one point, really, really rich. The NFL guys loved his money, and he was funny, and they liked him. And so they had not decided to give him a team yet, but when he'd been in touch with them, they all knew him. And when the AFL started, and Lamar said, we're starting this new league, and we're gonna put a team in Dallas, the NFL, they didn't wanna lose that market. They didn't wanna lose the Dallas market and just handed it over. So they said, okay, well, we're gonna put a team in there too. And they nominated, or they basically gave Clint Merckx in a phone call and said, hey, are you ready to go? That's really what it boiled down to. And he said, great. So they expanded. The NFL had not expanded in years, and they expanded with a team in Dallas in 1960, and then they paired it with the Minnesota Vikings started in 1961. So they paired it with two teams they brought in, but they started the Cowboys almost with the snap of a finger. They said it was 1959, and the AFL was getting ready to start. And they said, hey, well, can you get a team up and running next year? And Clint Merckx said, well, yeah, we can. And so it really was almost just a quickie. They asked if we could get this thing going. And they did. But Clint Merckx is the guy that got it going. And he was a good businessman, and he made a couple of key hires, I would say, given the history of what unfolded after that. He hired Tex Schramm as the general manager, who had been with the Rams and had been with CBS TV and was a real sort of forward-thinking guy. He hired Tom Landry as the coach, a Texans Texan from the University of Texas, and they flew bomber missions in World War II and were successful; he was the defensive coordinator of the New York Giants at the time, a very successful, smart coach, and an assistant coach. Vince Lombardi was the offensive coordinator, and the staff was decent. And so he hired Tom Landry. So Clint Merckx did some very smart things. He hired some really, really good people. And so that was how the Cowboys began.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, a very interesting couple of comments here. You know, I think when you're talking about Minnesota, I believe the NFL did a similar thing with Minnesota. The AFL was about ready to open up a franchise there, and they contacted some folks up there. The Vikings came in, and I think that's what led the Minnesota franchise to turn into Oakland. I believe that's how the story went.

John Eisenberg
Yeah, yeah, that is correct. That is exactly what happened. And yeah, they were forcing hands. If the NFL said, you know, we're not going to give these markets up, it was contentious pretty quickly.

Darin Hayes
Now, in your opinion, they had Lamar hunt, and you know, they turned Lamar hunt down. He decides, okay, I'm going to start my own league, gets, gets some, uh, some of the other wealthy, uh, owners together to start this. Do you think if he hadn't done that and Murchison comes to them and says, Hey, I want to Dallas Cowboys, that they would have sort of blown him off like they did the hunt at the first time?

John Eisenberg
Very debatable. It's a great question that we'll never know the answer to. As I said, they're in no hurry to expand. They had 12 teams through the whole 50s. They were very happy with that. And the money was rolling in, as I said, from TV for the first time. And so they were making some money, and they were excited about that because they hadn't made it for 30 years. And so they may not have, but Congress was sniffing around. The pressure was coming in terms of being forced to expand. And I think they probably would have eventually. The expansion committee in the NFL was George Halas. He was on the expansion committee. They claimed to have one. It was George Halas. He was running things. And so he really had no interest, but I think he could see, and Burt Bell, who was the commissioner, that it was probably going to have to happen pretty soon. There were just so many cities that were on the outside looking in that it was almost a trust that needed to be busted.

Darin Hayes
Okay, so now we're at the point where Hunt has his team, which she ended up calling the Dallas Texans. The second carnation of the Dallas Texans, as we alluded to earlier, was an earlier team in the NFL, the Dallas Texans. And you have, you know, the Tech Tram hire and the Landry hire of the Dallas Cowboys, which are going with the other crew that had the NFL franchise. So, how did those competing teams and leagues compete in the same market? How did they deal with each other?

John Eisenberg
It was pretty crazy. Just such an unprecedented situation. There was one stadium, the Cotton Bowl, the big stadium, which was a real sort of college football shrine. They had a New Year's Bowl game there. It was a big stadium, a big concrete sort of terrain that had been the site of many, many great games. Texas and Oklahoma played there every year. I mean, Dallas was a Texas was a college football haven. That's why they wanted it. I mean, it was very popular there, especially in high school and college football. The pros were that's what they were trying to tap into a really passionate football area, which it was then and still is. But then, once they got going, they fought over dates in the Cotton Bowl. Lamar Hunt had the right and had signed a lease. And so he got the Sunday afternoon window, a number of games that he could choose from, and a number of dates. So the Cowboys actually were sort of left out on that. And they started out playing on, they played, I think the first ever game was on a Saturday night, and they had a Friday night game. And, you know, the league wasn't telling teams what to do then. The national TV contracts hadn't started. So they were just winging it at the different times when they could play. So they fought over the stadium. Finally, when the other one played when one team played, the other one was on the road, and people would decide in Dallas, would decide which side are we going on here? Almost immediately, every football fan in Dallas had to decide if I would like both, but who's really my number one? And so certainly, for instance, my family and grandfather had the purse strings with the tickets, and, you know, he was sort of an establishment guy. So he's going with the NFL. That's for sure. The old established league, not the upstart, but, you know, I had a cousin who was a young sort of hip guy, and he didn't want any part of that. And so he went with the AFL; he went with the Texans. So the, I think, I think of the way it broke down a little bit. I'm really overgeneralizing here, but maybe the older people went with the Cowboys, and the young people sort of liked the new upstart team because, right off the bat, the caliber of football was interesting. The Texans are who they are: they hired Hank Strand, they also made a great hire for a coach, and they were playing good football from the get-go. And they were winning. They were pretty good. The Cowboys were an expansion team, and the NFL was getting their brains beat in every week. So it was more fun to watch a team that was winning. So, at that point, the sixties was a minor league town. And here come the Chicago bears for a visit. That was pretty exciting, as were the New York Giants. And so they did do a lot of business at the gate with the teams coming in. I don't think the AF, the fans really cared about seeing the Oakland Raiders or whoever were brand new, but then the Chicago Bears, now you're talking. And so they just sort of cut the city up in half and, you know, tried their best. They papered the gates. Both teams wanted to draw more than the other. They gave away thousands of tickets, in particular, to Lamar Hunt. He just wanted bigger crowds than the Cowboys and did everything he could to do that. And so free, you know, everybody gets in free practically. So there were just all sorts of shenanigans right from the very beginning.

Darin Hayes
Now, I think you allude to in your book, which I found to be very interesting in this dynamic, especially these first couple of years, that each franchise had its own marketing strategy and how-to team-building strategy. Maybe you could go into that a little bit to learn what Hunt's philosophy is. I know you're saying he gave away tickets and everything, but it seemed like you had a bit more fanfare with him.

John Eisenberg
with the AFL for sure, you know, and it really boils down to the AFL versus the NFL. The AFL played more wide-open football. They were certainly at that point, and there's a whole other story. You know, we're a little more racially open-minded than the NFL. That was definitely happening in the AFL. And they tried to bring in local guys to be on the, you know, to lead the team, people that the college football fans may know. And yes, as I said, I mean, Lamar Hunt was a marketer. And so they tried, they tried everything. I mean, they, you know, shot off cannons with a ticket, and they set off balloons over the city with the free tickets in them. And if, you know, it came down in your backyard, you got free tickets to the Texans game. If you went and got your car washed, they would give you a free ticket. They were just doing anything they could to get people to come. The Cowboys were more buttoned-down, a sort of traditional business. Pay your ticket, come in, and we'll take our lumps at the gate because we know we're just starting out. But you understand that because the AFL was a new product. And so, but Lamar was doing everything he could to get attention. You know, they brought in, you know, they had, they hired 30 attractive women. Talk about something, you know, in 2021 that would raise some eyes. They hired a team of attractive women to drive around in convertibles and give tickets away and attract attention, you know, the Texan girls or whatever they called them. I can't remember. And so, I don't know how successful they were, but the good news for Lamar is he married one of them. So, uh, so that worked out well for him. The Cowboys were more traditional.

Darin Hayes
Okay, so we know that today we don't have two teams in Dallas, you know, we know that the AFL and the NFL eventually merged. And there's only one team in the Dallas, Fort Worth area that play a major pro football. So what happened after that, that one of the teams left, we obviously the Cowboys are the team still there. What happened to the Texans?

John Eisenberg
Well, the Texans played three seasons there. They had winning teams. They drew some decent crowds. And in their third season, they had a really good team in 1962. They had Lynn Dawson as a quarterback. They had Abner Haynes, who is one of these guys that is just lost in the mists of history; he was a great player in the early years of the AFL running back and could catch the ball out of a lot of nice players on their team. And they wound up getting into the championship game, the Dallas Texans, in 1962. And they played the Houston Oilers. So it was an all-Texas game, and this epic game unfolded. They were down in Houston. And, you know, they had a big lead, and then the Oilers came back on them. And this is a nationally televised game. And they wind up going into overtime. And it was tremendous, and the viewing audience was tremendous. In some respects, it was the day the AFL really was legitimized. You know, people talk about the Colts Giants championship game in 1958 as sort of legitimizing the NFL. Well, the Texans-Oilers game in 1962 sort of legitimized AFL going into overtime. And this unbelievable scene unfolds where the Texans blow the coin flip to overtime. And the Oilers wind up with the ball and the wind. Nonetheless, they survived that and wound up winning the game in overtime. So the Dallas Texans are AFL champions, and they fly home. The only bad news is Lamar Hunt knows he's already decided to move the team. He had decided this wasn't going to work. This isn't going to work for me. I mean, we're sort of building things a little bit. And we're growing a little bit. But for the sake of this league, we need success stories. And we're in for a fight here. He realized, and what's interesting, that Lamar and Clint Ferguson were friends. They were in the oil business families, and they knew each other. Clint Ferguson was going nowhere. The Cowboys were from the established league, and they had Tom Landry and Tex Schram. And they might be losing right now. But they were building something, and they were going nowhere. They were not a fly-by-night operation. And Clint was loaded. So he could afford to lose money a little bit. So Lamar just made the decision, you know, and he founded AFL; he said we have to find somewhere where we can be successful. So he looked long and hard in New Orleans. It was really funny. He had friends in the oil business in New Orleans. And they told him you can't do it here. There's too much money under the table in New Orleans. You can't you can't go there. You the way they do business there, you won't do well. So we wound up going to Kansas City. And you know, they gave him a sweet deal, a bunch of season tickets, a promise. And he was the only game in town. So he went there. He went there. So it broke his heart. I mean, that was his hometown. He never got over it. And the Chiefs, you know, they changed the name to the camp. I mean, some friends told him he was so heartbroken that you could call him the Kansas City Texans. And, you know, Lamar was a Texan and was halfway like, yeah, I just my just do that. But, you know, they want a cooler head prevailed, as they say. So, they moved, you know, within weeks of winning the championship, the defending champions in the AFL in 1963 kicked off in a new city. And so three years and gone, and broke the hearts of their fans in Dallas. And to this day, there is an older group now, but you will find a small group of football fans, pro football fans in Dallas who hate the Cowboys. They hate them. Really? Yes. The reason is that they were Texans fans. They loved the Dallas Texans. They love the AFL. And they never got over it. They didn't get over it. It was well, you know, our team left town, you moved my team out of town, and I'll never forget it before. So it's a very small group, I might add, but they say

Darin Hayes
My mother lives in the Dallas area, and I just visited there this summer and got to go see AT&T Stadium. I got my picture outside the Cotton Bowl, you know, did all the touristy football things, and I don't know everything. When I looked there, I saw that silver stars were everywhere.

John Eisenberg
,

Darin Hayes
that the souvenir store inside AT&T Stadium; a couple of days later, I was at the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The souvenir at the stadium for just Cowboys paraphernalia is much larger than the Pro Football Hall of Fame by far. They have many more items in there, in my opinion, in their sort of back-to-back days. Now, you've said before the Lamar Hunt left and went to conversations in some backroom somewhere over some adult beverages to sort of work things out.

John Eisenberg
Yeah, they may have. I'm sure they did have conversations. I think the possibility of them working things out was slim. You know, this was sort of an elite class of guys, I mean, financially, and they're sort of used to wheeling and dealing. And they have a lot of conversations about a lot of things, I think. So yeah, they probably did talk about that. And, you know, I'm sure the NFL guys told Clint, Listen, you know, if you could, especially before the AFL started, when it was clear, there are going to be two teams, it's like, Listen, can you bring Lamar in? Can you do this? Can you get him to, you know, call off the dogs? Can you do something with Lamar? We know you know him. And Clint said, Well, yeah, I'm sure they probably had conversations then. But once the, you know, Lamar was a traditionalist and, and, and once he decided that we're going forward with this, and he had partners, you know, he had these guys in these other cities, then there was no going back. I mean, he was, he was down the road with, you know, Bud Adams, and Ralph Wilson, and Buffalo, and, you know, Harry Wismar, and those guys with New York Jets, and, and, you know, Baron Hilton in San Diego, or what wound up being San Diego, the first year was the charge of LA. But now, ironically, they're back after all these years, but you know, he had some partners. And so he was there. Clint might have talked to him about it, but he wasn't going to change his mind.

Darin Hayes
Now, I guess, I mean, it's a happy ending win-win for both franchises because things look pretty good for them. You're just less than a decade later, you know, Kansas City much earlier in the AFL, but even when they were both in the NFL, both had some championship runs. So it worked out very well. And I think Kansas City is very happy to have the Chiefs, especially nowadays.

John Eisenberg
Well, they got a great, yes, and they got a great owner. I mean, Lamar Hunt is one of the great owners in sports, you know, and now his son's running it. But, you know, Lamar was very fan-friendly. He cared a lot about, you know, let's make it good for the fans. I mean, he, you know, they built those two stadiums in Kansas City that were not the 1970 football, baseball sort of all of which had been blown up, you know, which didn't really work. He had sports-specific stadiums. That was Lamar wanting that. And yeah, I mean, so they got it. He would walk the parking lot before games in Kansas City and talk to the fans. Are you okay? How are your seats? Are you happy? You know, he was just, you know, a humble guy that cared about the fans. And, of course, he loved other sports. I mean, I covered him at the beginning of my newspaper career in Dallas. He had owned a soccer team. It was a team in Dallas, and I covered it. And that's when I dealt with Lamar a lot. And if you had a question, you just called him. I mean, his phone was listed. You just called Lamar Hunt, and his phone was listed. Yeah, he'd just call him. He'd answer the phone.

Darin Hayes
I assume Jerry Jones isn't the same way. He just has his number public. No, I don't think so. So he'd probably never get off the phone.

John Eisenberg
So, they had a great owner in Kansas City. They were very happy with the way it worked out. And, of course, what was really great and what I enjoyed writing about was the Chiefs won when they were gonna start the Super Bowl that first year after the 66th season, the Chiefs won the AFL title, and the Cowboys hosted Green Bay in the NFL Championship game at the Cotton Bowl. And we're one play away from forcing overtime the Lombardi Packers and Super Bowl one. And I am really kind of an old Cowboy fan. I really kind of blew the game. I mean, they're all in the one-yard line, and there was a moving penalty, and they were going in for the tying score. And it probably would have been overtime. That would have been interesting to see Lombardi in overtime. But anyway, the Cowboys were almost there. It was almost the two franchises in the first Super Bowl. So, as it turned out, Super Bowl four, then three years later, the Chiefs were back in it, and they won. And then that is the last AFL, the last game between the AFL and NFL before the merger. In the last game, the Kansas City Chiefs kicked the Minnesota Vikings up one side and down the other. You know, one of you talk to these old AFL fans, one of the great days in history. And so Lamar, in some respects, got a last laugh with that. I mean, he lost his hometown, and he never forgot it, but he had a lot of success in his life.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, very, very interesting book. Maybe if you could let our listeners know where your book this book and your other books would be available for purchase so they can get some more of the details that you have in there. So it's a truly a great book.

John Eisenberg
Well, this book, I wrote another one actually before it, about growing up in Dallas as a cowboy fan. It's really sort of an ode to being an early kid in the 1960s. And it's called Cotton Bowl Days. That's one. And then the 10 Gallon War. I also wrote a book about Vince Lombardi's first year with the Packers in 1959. The year that he took, I didn't write about the dynasty years, just all the changes that took place in that first year, which I found the story fascinating. And the most recent football book was called The League, which is a league-wide story. It's about the early years of the NFL and how they barely made it. And I'm talking about twenties, thirties, forties, and fifties, and it focuses on five owners, five owners who sort of just pick the league up by the collar and drag it through these years. And Art Rooney in Pittsburgh is one of them. Birdville in Philadelphia. George Preston Marshall in Washington. And then, of course, Hallis with the Bears and Tim Mara. The original Mara started the New York Giants in 1925 for $500. So those are my football books, and they're all available on Amazon. You know, these are with major publishers. I've written for over a period of years, and they're out there. You can get an audio version. You can get a paperback. You can certainly get a hardback on Amazon anywhere. Any major bookseller would be able to get these books for you.

Darin Hayes
I have a feeling my Prime account is going to be very active this weekend, so I am making some purchases. And I'm sure most of our listeners will, too, when this airs. So yeah, very interesting. I got to hear some about your book. You were on with one of my associates, Jeremy McFarland, I believe not too long ago, talking about the book The Late, the Late, yeah. So, so yeah,

John Eisenberg
early days, the NFL. I'm fascinated with it. It's people who just can't believe in this day and age. The NFL is so high, mighty, and rich. People can't believe that it was like a, you know, a little little, you know, fly-by-night operation. And then that's exactly what it was for many years. And so I really enjoyed researching that book.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, it's really a fascinating story, especially, you know, I have my Steelers connection; I've done a lot on Steelers history and read a lot on Steelers history. And I've got a guest coming on here soon in the next couple of days, Alan March, who is Dr. March's great-grandson, who helped with the work with Mara and developing the Giants and some of their stories. So that's history there with those five teams, which is fascinating. I look forward to reading that book. Now, okay, now, we got to get to the questions here. Now, you are your connection with the Ravens. Now, I know, less than a month from now, I believe it's going to be the first Steelers-Ravens game. And I know what it is like here in Western Pennsylvania and listening to the Pittsburgh media when it's Ravens week, everything is focused on Ravens week; I don't know, the Pirates could be winning, the Penguins could be winning, it doesn't matter. It's Ravens week, and the city is in a frenzy. And that's all everybody wants to talk about. Is that the same way it is in Baltimore?

John Eisenberg
Oh, very much so. It has been for many, many years. I will say I think it's waned a little bit, just because, you know, there are other teams out there and the, you know, Kansas City Chiefs and there's a lot going on. But for sure, I mean, the Steelers are the number one rivalry by far. And yeah, I mean, everybody still, they call it Steeler Week, you know, okay, so

Darin Hayes
So it's the same now, I know, living in the 70s. I live in Erie, Pennsylvania, So I'm a hundred miles from Buffalo, a hundred miles from Pittsburgh, and a hundred miles from Cleveland. Three NFL franchises have been doing pretty well here in the last couple of years, anyway. Before the Ravens became the Ravens, they were the Browns, of course, and I don't remember even as a kid when Browns week, as you know, it was a rivalry, and we had fun with it. Especially, you know, that's sort of a mixed bag here and here with, you know, fans split between the three teams. But I don't ever remember it being like it is for a Ravens rivalry. I mean, these two teams just seem to, you know, bring out the best in each other. They're probably the hardest hit you see in either team's highlight films. It was always where it's always a Steelers-Ravens game. It seems like, you know, you go back to the Heinz Ward block, you go with. You know, some of the linebacker hits on Roethlisberger, and you know where his nose is broken, his helmets are sideways. It's a Ravens game, and I think those are just some of the fantastic Games and probably one of the best rivalries in football going probably the last decade or so

John Eisenberg
Yeah, I mean, I think that's when the AFC North was formed. When did they go to that in 2002, I think? I believe so when they went to that. So, you know, before that, the Ravens were sort of battling with the Tennessee Titans in the old, but I can't remember what they called it. AFC Central was. AFC Central. So, you know, the Ravens, I think, have been in this. I mean, I know this for a fact: they were a new franchise when they moved to Baltimore, even though our model moved them. I mean, they started over with Ozzy Newsom and a lot of new people. And they really sort of modeled themselves after the Steelers because the Steelers, the way that they've operated with real staying the course with your personnel, hire the right people, keep with them, don't make changes all the time, you know, build through the draft, be patient. You know, I really think, especially when Steve Beshotti became the owner, it's almost like they took a thing, put it up on a bulletin board, and said, here's what we're shooting for right here. Okay, we're going to operate this way. And it was how the Steelers operated. And so the fact that they were in the same division was interesting. And so they sort of built themselves that way. And it helped organically. They had, you know, they drafted these great defensive players, Ray Lewis and all these guys. So they had a tough physical team. So they sort of modeled themselves after that. And then when they caught up to some degree, then you just had two really good teams just battling. And I think that's what fans, you could identify with that rivalry, you know, they were going to hit each other. And it was just football, it was classic football, you know, it's what fans want from football. And so that's what made it such a good rivalry. And a lot of the old Ravens that I talked to, and I'm sure the old Steelers are the same. That's the games they remember. That's the games they remember. So I was talking to Kelly Greg, an old, you know, an old line defensive lineman, the little squatty guy that I'm sure the Steeler fans are remembering as a great little nose tackle. And boy, he remembers battling Alan Panica, like, like nobody's business just down in the mud, you know, just, you know, and that these guys all have memories like that. So it's this just classic football. And I think that's what people like about

Darin Hayes
Yeah, it's just a tremendous rivalry, you know, maybe if you could tell folks where you can read your items that are on the Ravens, that you said you're doing that a couple times a week. Yeah, some things if you give that address out.

John Eisenberg
Pretty sure. Well, that's www.BaltimoreRavens.com. It's their website. I mean, my opinions on there. There's a column on Tuesday, there's a column on Saturday, and within two hours of the game being over, my opinions on whatever game is just taking place. So that's my gig these days. And, you know, just so it's there. And of course, it's, you know, they put it all stuff on social media. So it's all over the place, you know, on the NFL team website, and there's a lot of traffic. So, that's where I am these days.

Darin Hayes
But we really appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule and appreciate your knowledge of football's past, going back into the beginnings of the NFL, right up and through the 50s and 60s, with your books and now writing about modern football on the Ravens website and of course the columns that you did back when you were still writing for the newspaper. I appreciate your well-rounded history and sharing information with us today, as well as the stories of these great Dallas teams and franchises in that history, and I appreciate you being on.

John Eisenberg
Well, it's my pleasure. Thanks. I enjoyed it. And yeah, I love it. I love writing about the history. It's, it's fun stuff. And, you know, I find that a lot of people can relate to it. I've heard from a lot of non-Dallas football fans about these Dallas books that I wrote. So they're just sort of eternal, right? I mean, it transfers if you're a fan of some team, you're an old football fan, you like this stuff. So it's my pleasure to do it, really. It's a labor of love.

Darin Hayes
I can testify to that because I'm not a big fan of either team, but I found the book extremely interesting because of the history, the great story that you had, and the stories within the story. Just fascinating, well done, and much appreciated. So, I appreciate you being on here today, too. So thank you, John.

John Eisenberg
Thank you.

Football is a sport that is very special to many people. It combines grit and power with endurance and elegance. If you're a fan of football now, you've most likely been one for the past few years and will continue to be one for the rest of your life. That's the thing about football: once you love the sport, you can't shake it. With the tremendous arena games, all the way over the thrill of simply watching it at home, football has a little something for everyone. 

football-on-green-grass-2570139/">Pexels Courtesy Jean-Daniel Francoeur| AD

There are certain teams that have been around for a long time, that have garnered a lot of support over the years and that have proven that they belong as some of the most reputable football teams and franchises around. This article aims to shed light on exactly that. 

-The Arizona Cardinals

The Arizona Cardinals are the oldest football team in the whole of the USA. This is a very special feat and one that is extremely impressive, especially in a country that lives and breathes football as much as the USA. They even bet on the sport to show just how engrossed they are in the game. Betting platforms are rather popular amongst football fans, who even stray away from football when it becomes too heated and try to find a good online fish shooting game with real money and no deposit, so that they have a thrilling distraction from the game. 

This team started its humble beginnings in 1898. Their name back then was actually different, it went as the Morgan Athletic Club. Back then, they were even based in the south side of Chicago. The reason they got their name as the Cardinals is because, in the early 1900s, the teams' managers received an old shipment of faded cardinal red football jerseys and just like that, the name stuck. 

The team was excellent when it started, which is exactly what propelled them to being part of the NFL in 1920 when it officially started. That was over a century ago, and since then, as you can imagine, the team has gone through many significant changes, never losing its Cardinal name, though. The team is now based in Phoenix. They're the oldest team in the franchise, but unfortunately, they have only won two NFL titles in the last 100 years. They are one of the least successful teams in the bunch; however, who knows, maybe the tides will change for them. 

-The Chicago Bears

Just like the Arizona Cardinals, the Chicago Bears started out under a different name. In 1920, they got their name from their then-founder, A.E. Staley, as the Decatur team. However, then Staley passed on the team to the famous George Halas in 1921, who moved the team all the way over to Chicago. After their first year, they were already showing success and Halas was already given the endearing name of 'Papa Bear', as he was known for walking up and down the field at every game, trying to help his team as much as possible. You see where the story and the name change are going. In 1922, seeing as they were located in Chicago and their managed was known as 'Papa Bear', the team got the endearing name of the Chicago Bears and the rest has been history. 

This team has done extremely well for themselves in the NFL and has proven time and time again that they are the ones to look out for. They have won 8 NFL Championships since they started and they have even won one Super Bowl Championship, to boot. Showing that they are truly the ones to watch and they continue to be successful even today. 

-The New York Giants

The New York Giants started their success in the early 1920s, they started their franchise in 1925 specifically and have shown progress and improvements right from then. They started their journey on the famous Polo Grounds in Manhatten, marking one of the most esteemed training grounds. As one of the only teams to have never changed their name, this team often says that it has been marked for success right from the very beginning. 

They naturally joined the NFL the moment they became a functioning team and actually managed to win the title four times over, in 1939, 1941, 1944 and 1946. Doing this made them one of the best teams to ever enter the NFL Championship and certainly a team to look out for. Another reason they are one of the most popular teams, even today, is because they have also won the Superbowl four times over, which is an incredible feat. 

Today, the New York Giants continue to be one of the most influential teams on the roster and one that shows incredible promise. 

-A Solid Foundation

One of the most impressive things about these older teams is that they continue to play, even today. The fact that football seems to truly be based on history and heritage, makes it far more understanding that football is one of the most beloved sports in the USA. Fans have been watching their favorite teams play for years and years, passing the love of the sport on to the next generation. Football also certainly shows no sign of slowing down. 

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Ray Flaherty wasn't just a football player – he was a pioneer. His career spanned a crucial period in the sport's evolution, with his impact felt on both the playing field and the sidelines. While his achievements as a player were impressive, his coaching brilliance truly cemented his place in football history.

-Flaherty the Player

Flaherty's playing career started in the early days of professional football, a time of barnstorming teams and fledgling leagues. As a two-way end for Gonzaga University, under legendary coach Gus Dorias, he displayed a unique blend of power and agility, earning All-West Coast honors. Ray's tenure at the school included the legendary undefeated 1924 season for the Zags. A teammate of Flaherty's at Gonzaga was Houston Stockton, the grandfather of NBA legend John Stockton.

Ray then took his talents to the professional ranks, playing for the Los Angeles Wildcats and Red Grange's New York Yankees and finally finding his way onto the New York Football Giants roster. He was known for his toughness, intelligence, and versatility, often contributing on both sides of the ball.

The Wildcats were an LA team by name only but had a roster of many former Pacific Coast gridiron stalwarts, including Ray. They were an original American Football League team that never played a home game and tried to capitalize on the name recognition and draw of George Wildcat Wilson. As a member of these road warriors in the team's only season of 1926, Flaherty ended with a post-season barnstorming tour through the South against their AFL rival, the New York Yankees. The Yankees and their owner, C.C. Pyle, recognized the talent of young Flaherty and signed him on to the squad for the 1927 season, where the NFL awarded them a franchise as the first AFL folded. Ray played a couple of seasons in the Big Apple with the Yankees. Just after the 1928 season, this Yankees franchise shuttered its doors, and the now displaced Flaherty inked a contract with the crosstown rival Giants.

As a Giant in 1929, Flaherty immediately impacted the team. The two-way end caught eight touchdown passes and was second in points scored for Giants players that season behind only Fullback Tony Plansky and just ahead of offensive juggernauts Benny Friedman and Hap Moran. To say Ray Flaherty was significant to the '29 Giants, who secured a second-place record at 13-1-1, maybe an understatement. Ray finished his NFL career with 20 TD receptions, three All-Pro seasons, and one NFL Championship with the Giants in 1934. Ray played an instrumental part in this famous '34 Title game when he suggested that Giants players might better navigate footing on the icy Polo Grounds surface if they wore sneakers. This prompted head Steve Coach Steve Owen to borrow some tennis shoes from nearby Manhattan College to gain an advantage for New York in the contest. The suggestion of Flaherty was an overwhelming success as the Giants maintained better traction than the undefeated and heavily favored Chicago Bears, resulting in a 30-13 upset by the Giants.

Interestingly, Owen's friend, Abe Cohen, returned the sneakers to Manhattan College after the NFL game so the basketball team could practice the next day. One can only imagine the condition of the sneakers when the Manhattan players went to put them on for practice. Ray Flaherty's adept talent for finding an advantage led to the famous Sneaker game and foreshadowed the future coaches' talent as leading men.

However, Flaherty's true calling was coaching. In 1930, he returned to his alma mater, Gonzaga, to be head coach for a season. This early foray into coaching foreshadowed the success that awaited him in the professional ranks.

A tremendous athlete, Flaherty even experimented with his baseball talents in 1930, playing a season of minor league ball as a second baseman with the Providence Grays of the Eastern League.

After skipping the 1930 season with these ventures, Ray returned to the NFL and the Giants in 1931 to extend his playing career. Flaherty was a player-coach for the Giants beginning in 1933—he was the first assistant coach on Steve Owen's staff and served as the Giants captain those seasons.  

Historian Larry Schmitt tells us that Ray wore three different numbers with New York: #44 in 1929, #6 in 1931, and #1 from 1932-1935.

The Giants gave him #1 after Benny Friedman left for Brooklyn, and the #1 was retired in his honor in 1935. Flaherty is the first American professional athlete to have his jersey number retired. Ace Baily of the Toronto Maple Leafs was the first pro athlete to have his number retired in 1934. 

-As a Coach Flaherty Finds His True Calling

In 1936, the Boston Redskins ( who a year later became the Washington Redskins) appointed Flaherty as head coach. This was a pivotal moment for both the team and the young coach. Flaherty immediately instilled discipline and a winning mentality, leading the Redskins to a division title in his first season. His coaching philosophy emphasized innovation and a balanced attack. He's credited with inventing the screen pass, a play that revolutionized offensive strategy and continues to be a staple in football today.

Flaherty's tenure with the Redskins was a golden age. He led them to four division titles and two NFL championships (1937 and 1942). His teams were known for their toughness, offensive creativity, and relentless pursuit of victory. He was a master motivator, adept at getting the best out of his players, including future Hall of Famers like Sammy Baugh.

Following his service in World War II, Flaherty continued coaching in the newly formed All-America Conference. Though he didn't achieve the same level of success as with the Redskins, his overall coaching record remains impressive: 80 wins, 37 losses, and five ties. This translates to a .676 winning percentage, a testament to his coaching acumen.

Ray Flaherty's legacy extends beyond wins and championships. He was a bridge between the early days of professional football and the modern era. He was a player who understood the game from every angle and a coach who left an indelible mark on the sport through innovation and leadership. His induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1976 is a fitting tribute to a man who shaped the game we know and love today.

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Joe Ziemba, the author of numerous books, including the famous When Football was Football: The Chicago Cardinals and the Birth of the NFL, gives a foreshadow of his upcoming novel Bears versus Cardinals: The NFLs Oldest Rivalry. Joe is the host of the When Football was Football Podcast and has an earlier written book of the same name, among various other works. Ziemba Written Book


-Transcript of Joe Ziemba on his Bears vs Cardinals book

Darin Hayes
Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pigpen, your portal to positive football history. And we have a great interview session tonight. We're gonna talk to our friend. It's the author of multiple books on football, especially Chicago area football. That's Joe Ziemba, and his latest book is out. Bears versus Cardinals, the NFL's oldest rivalry. It is a very interesting title and a very interesting topic. Very interesting author. We'll bring them in right now. Joe Ziemba, welcome back to the Pigpen.

Joe Ziemba
Oh, Darin, thanks so much for having me back again. It's been a while since I saw the pig pen has been remodeled. It looks nice and clean, and really ready and anxious to talk about the Bears and the Cardinals.

Darin Hayes
Hey, we kept your spot open at the trough here at the pig pen, so you're always welcome here. It's been much too long, and that's my fault. I need to have you on more. More Joe is always a good thing.

Joe Ziemba
And we appreciate that. Thanks so much for letting me babble on a few times. So it's it's all good. It's all about the history of pro football.

Darin Hayes
Well, it's probably hard to make an appointment with you because I'm seeing all over social media, and I live, you know, 800 miles away from you. And it seems like you're booked on something almost every evening talking about, you know, the Bears and the Cardinals and your wonderful book. You know, you're on quite the tour-a-lura.

Joe Ziemba
And, you know, people always say they're living the dream. And right now, it is great because the book has come out, and a lot of libraries and different organizations have asked me to talk about the book. And I don't really promote the book. Obviously, I'd like to market it, so that's part of it. But it gives me the opportunity to talk about the Bears and Cardinals. You meet so many interesting people. I gave a talk this week at a library, and an 89-year-old young lady came up and said she was a Bear season ticket holder on the 50-yard line and her cousin knew George Alice. And she knew exactly what I was talking about when we go back to the early fifties in these talks. And even the fact with old photos where the referees were kind of dressed up with a suit and tie and a hat. And she said I remember those guys. So it was, it's kind of neat. You meet different types of people. And I really enjoy that as much as giving the talks.

Darin Hayes
Well, you're definitely hitting a great nerve with the public. I'm sure they're going ecstatic about it up in Chicago. You know, people, the old Cardinals fans are remembering it. Of course, the Bears fans, uh, new and older, probably enjoying hearing this, uh, you know, relishment of, uh, history. And you have quite a bit of history. That's somewhat forgotten, and a lot of people didn't know about it. Um, maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Yeah.

Joe Ziemba
The history of both teams is quite unusual. Both teams had fires in their storage units, and I'm not sure exactly when, Darin, but I think it was in the fifties. And so a lot of the history was lost, which means that history that may have been written before was taken as being the truth. Now, we do have some documentation, for example, with the Bears. George Halas wrote his autobiography, which came out in the early seventies or late sixties, I believe. It first came out in the Chicago Tribune as a multi-day series. But George was writing this stuff many decades after it occurred. And it's not a big deal. It certainly doesn't matter, but there are a few errors in there. One of the bigger ones that I saw was that I questioned whether George Helles and the Decatur Staley's voluntarily left Decatur in 1921. Again, you say, who cares? But as you and I are historians, you kind of enjoy that stuff and that information. And I think it's kind of interesting in the book where we're able to track down why I don't think George Helles left voluntarily. We in Chicago are certainly glad that he did because the Bears are here right now. And there's something similar with the Cardinals. The Cardinal's history just did not make sense when I did my last book a few centuries ago called When Football Was Football because I was looking up as much as I could, and I really kind of went deep in research as much as possible and found out that the dates that the Cardinals continue to publicize are inaccurate. And there's nothing wrong with that. Who cares if we're off a little bit 125 years ago or whatever? It's been fun in this latest book on the rival; I was able to document where the history was stretched a little bit and who did it. And when all that stuff comes together, and you've got a pile of information, you want to make sense of it; I hope that readers will now make sense of the history of both teams and that maybe some of that stuff isn't quite accurate and that we've been led to believe. That includes the date when the Cardinals started and how the team got its name. There are a couple of old stories that, indeed, weren't true. One, for example, said in 1920 that the owner of the Cardinals challenged the Chicago Tigers for the right to represent Chicago, and whoever lost the game would hand over their franchise to the other team. And we found out there's absolutely no truth to that, but it made for a good story. Again, we try to provide the reasons why that was not accurate and what happened after that. So lots of fun. And as you mentioned, people are getting into it. We have a lot of nice discussions at these meetings. Again, last week, a lady in the audience who again had been a season ticket holder came up to me beforehand. This talks about the rivalry and how tough it was back then. She said I hope you're not talking about the Cardinals. I said, well, yeah, it's part of the book. So I have to do that. She said, well, I'm a Bears fan all the way through. And then we'll have older Cardinals fans who remember and say, did Hellas kick them out of Chicago? And I'll say, well, he certainly helped. And part of that reason was George Hellas authorized a half million dollars to the Cardinals in 1960 to leave town. Even though the real reason was the blackouts and the TV rights, which happens when you have a city with two NFL teams at the same time, the only city that had that. So, the Bears did have something to do with the Cardinals leaving the city of Chicago.

Darin Hayes
you bring up a lot of different topics there that are, like, I have interest peaks going all over the place. I'm sure the readers do, too. But maybe let's start at the beginning because, although we found out earlier, I don't read the acknowledgments in books very well. But I do like to read the preface of books. And you have a very interesting opening, and sort of a personal opening, where you talk about a period in your life and a person in your life that sort of helped propel this book.

Joe Ziemba
Exactly, Darren. And it was my dad who played college football. He went to Mount Carmel High School in Chicago and then went to a little place called St. Benedict's in Kansas. At that time, there were no real divisions, either at big schools or small schools. St. Benedict's, which is now Benedictine in Atchison, was considered a smaller school, although they played Creighton in New Mexico State and Wichita State. He was named first-team All-American. After that, he apparently received a lot of letters from places like George Ellis, the Bears, and the Detroit Lions. There was a draft in place. And he did get drafted by the Cardinals in the 12th round, I think of the 1940 draft. But he never talked about his football experience. He was a coach. And he's actually inspired all three of my books because of coaching and his experience. But I've always wanted to find out more about what happened. And ultimately, he got injured in training camp. I found a magazine where he made the final roster; I think it was 32 players at the time. But it would have been a simple arthroscopic surgery now. But then he figured, why go through the pain? And besides, Darren could make more money coaching high school football than he could as a professional football player in the National Football League back in the 40s. So here's my question, Darin: what do you think this contract called for in terms of payment?

Darin Hayes
Oh, let's see. We're talking, um, so be the Cardinals, and in 1940, you said, yes, yes. Pre World War II. I'm going to say, uh, a hundred bucks a game.

Joe Ziemba
right there. The rookie contract called for $110 a game. But they had to provide their own shoulder pads and cleats. So maybe it did come down to 100. And they didn't get paid if they missed a game because of injury. So, that is all the more reason for him to check out of the hospital and become a high school coach. But yeah, great guess, great guess

Darin Hayes
Oh, the other thing that piqued my interest was that you talked about these fires that both the Cardinals and the Bears had; you know, it was two separate fires, right? It wasn't; they didn't keep all their records in the same place, and there was a fire.

Joe Ziemba
Yeah, they have different headquarters. And so, uh, someday it's one of those things we always say as researchers, I want to look into then see if I can define exactly when the dates were for those, but, uh, without a lot of the records and we're going by hearsay or things that have been published through the years that have just taken his truth and, and more so for the Cardinal side than the bears, uh, we found out that a lot of this information started in the forties or fifties about that game between the Cardinals and the Tigers, for example, and about how the team got its name, you know, one of the things that always has kind of bugged me was it said that crystal Brian, the owner of the Cardinals in 1899, when the team started, uh, bought used jerseys from the University of Chicago named a Solonzo stag, and stagged and not liked the idea of professionalism. He caused a big bruja in the early twenties by syndicating a national letter talking about how evil professional football was, but I wanted to see it for sure. And I was able to, uh, see if the jerseys match; first of all, Crystal Brian was 17 or 18 years old. He certainly didn't own the team, and Stagg was unlikely to sell jerseys, but I had a chance to go to the University of Chicago, which keeps extensive records of coach Stagg's, uh, all those financial dealings, and this correspondence, I could not find anything, which doesn't mean much, but they did have photos. I do have a photo of the Cardinals in 1900 when they were known as the Morgan athletic club, and the photos don't match, even though they're not in color. So that's the kind of research that has helped me to understand that there might be little errors here and there as we move through history. Again, it doesn't affect the team today, but we're not changing history, but kind of correcting it or adjusting it a little bit.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, I always thought that story was kind of odd, too, because, you know, the Chicago, of course, was the maroon. So, I'm assuming they probably had a maroon-colored Jersey. And you know, they've come up with a Cardinal red out of that out of the maroon. I just don't get that either. That doesn't make much sense either.

Joe Ziemba
Oh, that's why when the team started in 1901, it was called the Cardinal Social and Athletic Club, not named after a bird or a uniform and crystal Brian certainly didn't own the team, although he and his brother and one other gentleman started the first version of the Cardinals in 1899. But yeah, Maroons does not match Cardinal Red, at least in my opinion, Darren.

Darin Hayes
All right. Now, George Hallis is always an interesting subject. You know, I have sort of a love-hate relationship. I don't know if everybody else does, but I have a sort of love-hate relationship. I look through him through history. You know, there are some things that he did that were just spectacular, both as him as an athlete, and some of the great things that he did is starting the NFL and, you know, keeping Decatur and Chicago, those teams, going and what he did for the game, but other things, you know, I sit there, and I look at some of these sorts of sly little maneuvers he would make to put the Bears in title contention, you know, you know, back, you know, there's probably at least three or four stories where the Bears were in second place, and he sort of tried to swindle or did swindle another team into playing an extra game to try to gain an advantage for his team, which you can't blame a guy for doing. It just seems a little bit underhanded by today's standards.

Joe Ziemba
Yeah, and a good example would be Buffalo. I believe that was 1921 when the Bears invited Buffalo to come to Chicago. Um, supposedly for an exhibition game, and somehow the league counted the game, which the Bears won as a regular season game, even though there are two or three reasons why it shouldn't have been considered, but back then, there were no playoffs, the league champion was decided by a vote of the owners at the end of the season, factually the next year. And so in the book, what I've tried to do to present all sides is to have some of the authors who have written on that, like Jeff Miller, has written extensively on Buffalo, and get his opinion. He was helpful in providing some articles from the Buffalo newspapers. And we see that along the way, even with red grains, um, joining the Bears in 1925, the day after he finished his college career. And the rule was that the pros weren't going to touch the college players. And with the assumption that, yeah, he could sign them once their class graduated, of course, Hallis took it as well. Red Grange finished his college career on Saturday. On Sunday, he was with the Bears, although Chris Willis, I think you've talked to a few times, who wrote the exceptional, uh, biography of Red Grange, tells us that, yeah, the maneuvers were going on well before that Saturday after Grange's final game. Then, we also tell a story about Joseph Aldi in 1930, a rookie out of Notre Dame who committed a terrible, grievous crime. Can you guess what he did during your Notre Dame fan?

Darin Hayes
The name and the story sound familiar, but I can't put my finger on what he did.

Joe Ziemba
Well, what he did was terrible. He got married. You couldn't get married in Notre Dame. And remain it's, you know, they got kicked off the football team, but out of school. So Curly Lambeau was searching around for that to bring Joseph Aldi up to Green Bay, and Alice was there as well. And supposedly, there was some backroom talk that both would lay off Joseph Aldi, the same argument: his class didn't graduate. Alice interpreted that as well. He played his final game, and he can't play anymore anyway. So I'll sign them. He signed them to a $4,000 contract, second only to Bronko Nagurski's $5000 a year. And, of course, that brought up some hard feelings. The NFL did get involved. Halis and Savaldi, I guess, decided he was going to make more money as professional wrestlers. But Dallas, as you mentioned the questions, there are two or three examples of where he may have stretched the truth a little bit. But what a fantastic man, and what a great coach and player he was for many years till he retired in his late 20s. And all he did to keep football going, as he said once, he didn't know if he could take any money out of the team. He and Dutch Sternaman, who was his partner, wanted to give each other $100 a game back in the early 20s if they had $100 left. Of course, now the Bears are worth $ 5.2 billion. So Halis did something right.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, it's a good investment on his part. Now, that brings up another question, something that I've always had a little bit of. You know, Mr. A. E. Staley was the original sponsor of the team with his starch company, I believe you're in. Halas was a player and coach, I believe, in the very first year of the end of the APFA 1920. Right? Am I correct so far? You are. Yep. Okay. So when they came through the next year of the year after, when Staley sort of washed his hands off the team, he gave the team $5,000 to Hallis.

Joe Ziemba
Yeah, that is correct. And that was midway through 1921. Alice had toyed with playing games in Chicago in 1920, and then in 1921, others were scheduled to draw a bigger crowd. From my recollection, the home games in Decatur, Illinois, could only seat about 1500 people. And so for Staley, this was a great investment if you look at it as a pure marketing endeavor, where his team was mentioned in newspapers all over the country as the league started to get more publicity. But I think he was drowning and lost in expenses with sponsoring teams. He had a baseball team that traveled all over and, of course, football, and the players worked at the Staley company. Alice worked out a deal with Mr. Staley, where the football team could practice a couple hours a day on company time. So it was a great deal for them. But in that letter in 1921, way at the bottom of it, it says, and please be understood, as he's saying to Alice, once you leave Decatur, don't come back is essentially what Mr. Staley said. So, in the book, I've kind of worked on that and found some other quotes, and as you might see, as you read through it, I don't think George Hallis left Decatur voluntarily. In fact, I'm pretty certain of it, and I tried to lay out the reasons and the proof of why that might have happened. But yeah, it was a great deal for a while. And then, unfortunately, the Staley's dropped in January of 22, I believe, all their sports, and a lot of the townspeople and, of course, some of the employees who were working or playing on those teams were quite upset. A cartoon appeared, which is in the book as well, that showed the different products produced by the Staley company. They were kind of pushed aside because Mother Staley was holding the football and the new baby and giving preference over the other children from the company.

Darin Hayes
Now, why do you think that he, that Mr. Staley gave, given the teams, one thing that's, I mean, probably a decent expense right there? Maybe it was just to get rid of him having to spend money, but why give Alice, you know, the sum of $ 5,000, which was pretty good money back in the early 20th century?

Joe Ziemba
Absolutely. Yeah. 5,000 was a lot of money and got Hellas through the season. But I think that was to really encourage Hellas to take the team, and they defined it as being advertising money because the team would be known as the Chicago Staley's. Even though they completed the 1921 season in Chicago, they kept the name Staley's. It wasn't until 1922 that the Chicago Bears were incorporated, which was a whole different story. It was through the fiasco of Hellas trying to incorporate the team or even having a franchise in the league that the NFL finally recognized him. But yeah, the $5,000, I think, was to really encourage George Hellas and the football team to go away and not come back.

Darin Hayes
Oh, okay. So not only naming rights, but yeah, get out of Dodge, go to Chicago, or go elsewhere. Anyway. Okay. Interesting. Well, let's take a break. I mean, that's some great news. Those are some great things in the book. Let's take the opportunity to, once again, say the name of your book and where folks can get it, Joe.

Joe Ziemba
Yeah, the name of the book is Bears versus Cardinals, the NFL's oldest rivalry. It's from McFarland; you can order directly from the publisher or the usual online sources like Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and Target, which all carry the book. So it's pretty easy to get online.

Darin Hayes
Okay, now you have it called Bears versus Cardinals. So obviously, they played some games against each other, and there was a rivalry, I'm assuming when they both played in the same town. Maybe you could hit some of the highlights of some of the big games and rivalry-type things that happened between these two franchises.

Joe Ziemba
Yeah, I tried to go back because every time I do research and I'd see a Bears-Cardinals game, it still seems to end up in a fight or fight among the stands in the stands or fight on the field, or everybody combined and had a good time getting into a fight. So, I wanted to find out where the rivalry started. And actually, it centers around Paddy Driscoll, P A D D Y, who was a halfback out of Northwestern and actually played outfield one season for the Chicago Cubs. And, of course, since he was still in college, he lost his college eligibility. He played in the Great Lakes Naval Station team that won the 1919 Rose Bowl. He and George Halas later played for the Hammond Pros in 1919. So the reason I'm telling you this is that Halas and Driscoll had a nice relationship as players. Driscoll functions as a quarterback. Halas is the end. Halas was the MVP of the 1919 Rose Bowl. But when the pro league started in 1920, there was great excitement when Halas was recruiting all these players for the Staley's because he signed the legendary Patty Driscoll. And that was great news: a big name came to Decatur. And then, quietly, about a week later, the newspapers reported Patty Driscoll signed with the Chicago Cardinals, then known as the racing Cardinals. So Halas may have been a little upset with the Cardinals, but his pursuit of Driscoll never stopped. In the early part of 1922, we learned from the newspaper, from the paperwork that I found with the state of Illinois, that Hallis not only recruited Driscoll to play for him but made him an owner with Hallis and Dutch Sterneman of the newly incorporated Chicago Bears. Of course, Chris O 'Brien, who by then was the manager of the Cardinals, went nuts and went to the league because one of the reasons for starting the NFL was to prohibit or eliminate players jumping from team to team. And Hallis was given a slap on the wrist and told that now you couldn't touch Patty Driscoll; he was the property of the Cardinals, which he was. At the time, the highest-paid player in the league was $300 a game, while some of the players were still getting $25 or even $10. So the story didn't end there because in November, Thanksgiving day in 1922, I think you and I have talked about this before, Bears and the Cardinals played, and Halas and Joey Sterneman, the brother of Dutch Sterneman, not only tackled Driscoll but picked him up and head slammed him into the ground. And that led to quite a ride on the field. Fans got involved, and the police got involved. The story appeared in the newspapers about George Hallis being knocked down, and a fan was straddling him with a pistol pushed up against George Hallis' head. And so it just seemed like every time the teams played, there'd be some kind of fiasco. In fact, it was rare. And the other thing about the rivalry, and this is, we talked about Crystal Bryan going nuts. I go nuts when I watch television when the Bears and the Packers play. And it said the NFL's oldest rivalry. And that happened again, most recently, but it was the Bears and the Cardinals. When the Bears were the Stalies and the Cardinals were still the racing Cardinals, they played the year before the Packers even entered the league. But that's not the reason I wrote the book. I just found the stories on both sides so fascinating that it went from a competition. It was mostly the players who didn't like each other. You can even find Ernie Nevers talking about 1929, scoring 40 points against the Bears, which is still an NFL record for one game, and why he did it. And you go into the fifties with Ed Sprinkle, the Bears, and Charlie Trippi taking turns knocking each other out on the field. Fans are jumping. I think it was 1957 or 58, jumping on the field to join in a fight. And even when the Cardinals ended up in Chicago, they moved to March of 1960. But at the end of 58, they wanted to play at Dyke Stadium, Northwestern University, and Hallis invoked an old, old agreement that absolutely no one in Chicago would hear of called the Madison Street Agreement. And that simply stated the Cardinals could not play north of Madison Street, which ran east-west in Chicago, and the Bears could not play south. With this agreement, Erp Bell, who was a commissioner at the time, ruled that now they'd have to support the Bears, and the Cardinals could not move to Northwestern. And some great help on that one because Upton Bell, the son of Burt Bell, was just very gracious with his time and gave me some insight. And the Pro Football Hall of Fame had the minutes from the meeting. Just again, the rivalry started right then, in 1920 or so, and went to when the Cardinals left. So there's plenty of activity sandwiched in between.

Darin Hayes
That's tremendous. You said that the Cardinals left in 1959. Is that what you said?

Joe Ziemba
1960 marks of 60. Yeah.

Darin Hayes
Okay, and that you said to Halas, I think you just said at the beginning of this conversation that Halas gave money to them to encourage them to leave.

Joe Ziemba
Yes. And it's been in the newspapers that there are a couple of things they were concerned about. One was that the new American Football League was getting involved in Chicago or stealing the Cardinals and moving them somewhere, possibly St. Louis, where the Cardinals were not making money. That's pretty much accepted. And so at least the newspapers at the time said, and more than one resource said, that George Halas gave the Cardinals $500,000 to assist them with moving expenses. That gave him the rights to all the television showings in Chicago; games were blacked out if one team was playing at home and the other was away. A goofy role, but it lasted for years and years. And that was primarily why the Cardinals left town, although the Halas financial incentive certainly helped them.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, I mean, 1960, half a million dollars is a good chunk of change. That's probably very encouraging for a franchise to move. You know, it's peanuts today. That's probably what they pay the guy who launders the shirts nowadays in the NFL. But yeah, it's very interesting. So, Joe, you know, it is tremendous that you were able to come on here and talk about this, and I'm so glad that you were able to write this book and record this because your research is impeccable. And your storytelling is everybody loves it. Make sure folks listen to Joe's podcast. He's on a couple of times a month. You have a podcast.

Joe Ziemba
Right, yeah. Well, we're just talking a little bit about our network.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, what can you tell them about the podcast?

Joe Ziemba
Well, the podcast is called When Football Was Football. And what we talk about is any kind of old football in Chicago; it's the Bears and the Cardinals, but we've talked about a high school a couple of times and maybe a couple of college things. And some of the individuals you may not have heard about, we've talked about Shorty Ray a couple of weeks ago, who really revised the way officiating is done in the National Football League. This week's episode talks about Jack Glynn, who is one of the resources I had for this game. He was a 19-year-old general manager of the Cardinals back in 1919, a great story. His family had kept his documents for over a hundred years. In fact, his niece, I believe it would be, is a nun and a missionary in Bolivia. And she was the one who uncovered these documents after all these years. You know, and speaking of documents, before we go on, Darin, I wanna mention my personal thanks to John Kendall and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. A lot of what we talk about is based on the Dutch Sterneman papers. In the Sterneman papers, Sterneman was George Halas's partner from the 1920s until the early 30s. The family kept all the Bears' financial records at that time. That's what Sternemann did. So we know what the salaries were. And I talked earlier about Bronco Nogersky and Joe Savaldi, the contracts for different games, and even how much a mechanic in the North side of Chicago who was paid $4 a game plus a pass to go scout for the Bears back then. And so I was able to use a ton of stuff. Thanks again to John Kendall and the Pro Football Hall of Fame, which is probably, in my opinion, the greatest collection they have, which is the Sternemann papers.

Darin Hayes
Wow. You get to actually go into the Hall of Fame and use the research facility when you're doing research.

Joe Ziemba
for your book, correct? Yes, yes. The Hall of Fame has always been very receptive. I don't know why they let me in, but they do. And the sternum and papers came out for a couple of years. They were kind of off base. The reason why was that the Hall of Fame was categorizing everything. And so now they've all been put in boxes. There's a nice index of what is where, and it made it really easy. I was also able to make copies of the documents that were specific to my research. So John Kendall has been there every step of the way as an archivist at the Hall of Fame. And I just can't thank him enough. And a lot of other people helped as well. Chris Willis from NFL Films. You've always been encouraging. I mentioned Jeff Miller, Upton Bell, and John Steffenhagen, who's an expert on the Rochester Jeffersons. A lot of great folks have been able to help out with this research. So, I thank them publicly.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, no, I guess maybe we'll put you mentioning all those names. Maybe we should put a little bit of a plug-in for the PFRA, the Professional Football Research Association. We are going to be having a meeting in 2023 in Pittsburgh, where pro football started. George Bizika and the gang are organizing this great venture to take that down there. So, if folks, if you're interested in real professional football history and some great things, we had a big meeting last year in Canton at the Hall of Fame and some places around our Maslin and the city of Canton. But, you know, this Pittsburgh trip seems to be very intriguing as well, and it is full of football history going back to the La Trobe Athletic Clubs and things like that. So, I know they have some great guests lined up and some great events. If you're interested in that, you can contact us here at Pigskin Dispatch, which is pigskindispatch@gmail.com, or go to the PFRA website. And I believe it's professional football researchers dot org. I think I might have that off, but it's something like that. But yeah, we'd like to see you, and you will meet folks. Usually, Joe's there. I'm there. You know, he talked about Jeff Miller and possibly Chris Willis might be there. There are a lot of people who usually show up, including football historians and experts in the field. And it's just some great camaraderie. And you get to rub elbows with some really knowledgeable people about football.

Joe Ziemba
It is a great time. And again, all you gotta do is for me because I can't remember all the letters. I go P F R A, and it usually shows up, and the website is open to nonmembers as well. So, if you want to look around there, there is a member section that you have to remember, obviously, to take a look at. But we're expecting a great, great meeting next year. George, as you mentioned, and Darin always do a wonderful job of putting it together. And he's also the mastermind behind the book series that the PFRA has been putting out for the last few years.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, absolutely. Great. A lot of great resources. And when it's saying a membership fee, it's very inexpensive. I believe it's like $35, $40 a year. And I think the whole weekend, the three-day weekend, is like $75 if you remember next, next summer. It is so very affordable. You know, of course, your room and meals are separate. I think they do include one or two meals in there, too, for $75, but it is well worth the money. The history you get to see, experience, and learn about is especially phenomenal.

Joe Ziemba
Yeah, it's something I've always enjoyed attending, and it's almost like Disneyland for football people who love their history. Every time you turn around and take breaks in the hallway, you are able to talk to folks who just have that passion and that love of pro football history. It's it's really exceptional.

Darin Hayes
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Joe, I really appreciate you coming on here. Why don't we give the folks one more time the name of your book and where they can get it? And if you want to share any social media that you have

Joe Ziemba
Oh, thanks so much, Darin. Yeah, the book is called Bears versus Cardinals, the NFL's oldest rivalry, available from McFarland books or Amazon pride to be the two easiest places. I also have a Twitter account, which is called Cards Chicago, and a Facebook account for Chicago Cards; if you want to just look up Chicago Cards, there are over 12,000 people now who follow the Chicago Cardinals Facebook. Again, we take great pleasure in uncovering those types of stories that you may not see very often. And so we'd invite you to join us and continue our investigation, our history, and our enjoyment of old-time professional football.

Darin Hayes
Well, Joe Ziemba, you know, is a historian, podcaster, and author. We thank you once again for sharing your great knowledge and your stories and your time with us again tonight.

Joe Ziemba
And thank you so much, Darin, for all you're doing to protect and preserve the history of football. In fact and, your podcasts are amazing. I don't know how you do it, but congratulations, keep up the good work. And thank you so much for having me here.

Darin Hayes
Sure. I think people call it an illness. At least, that's what my wife calls it. Thanks, Joe.

Joe Ziemba
Thank you.

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October 18th, a day etched in the annals of American football, was marked by a whirlwind of action, both on and off the field. As the gridiron thundered with the clash of helmets and the roar of the crowd, the world of football celebrated the legacies of its iconic figures and witnessed the birth of new legends.

While the NFL stage was set for thrilling matchups, the college football landscape was equally electrifying. Young talents showcased their skills, leaving a lasting impression on fans and scouts alike. Historic rivalries were renewed, and new dynasties were forged.

Beyond the game itself, the football community paid tribute to those who have shaped the sport. Birthdays of Pro Football Hall of Famers and College Football Hall of Famers were commemorated, honoring their contributions and inspiring the next generation of players.

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November 13 holds a special place in the annals of American football history, with a variety of events that have shaped the sport over the years. On this day, both iconic players and legendary teams made their mark, creating unforgettable moments that continue to resonate with fans. Some of these events highlight historic victories, game-changing plays, and key decisions that altered the course of seasons. Others involve pivotal shifts that helped define the trajectory of football at the professional and collegiate levels.

In addition to these significant milestones, November 13 is also the birthday of several Hall of Fame players who have left an indelible legacy on the game. These football legends, celebrated for their on-field brilliance, transformed the sport with their exceptional skills, leadership, and impact. Their contributions not only earned them a place in football’s most prestigious institution, but also solidified their status as icons in American sports culture.

As we explore the events of November 13 in football history, we’ll celebrate both the achievements of the teams and players who shaped the game, as well as the birthdays of those whose names will forever be etched in the history books. Stay tuned to discover the moments that made this day unforgettable.

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Mark your calendars, football fanatics, because June 11th isn't just another day on the calendar. It's a date etched in gridiron history, boasting the birthdays of three icons who forever altered the landscape of the game. On this very day, the world welcomed Vince Lombardi, the legendary coach who transformed the Green Bay Packers into a dynasty; Ernie Nevers, a powerhouse running back who dominated the early days of the NFL; and Joe Montana, the quarterback whose clutch performances cemented his place as one of the greatest to ever play. Buckle up and get ready to dive into the fascinating stories of these legends, and how June 11th became a day of football royalty!

We share football history and the legends of the game each and every day!