Football History

Some people wouldn’t agree that football stadiums, history, and romance can fit in the same sentence. Such people aren’t relevant in this situation. They can keep holding hands while walking on beaches or eating picnics in local parks…

Photo Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons, William Leishman | AD

Yet those who know that combining a passion for pro football and their partner usually results in spectacular dates should probably keep reading this article.

We’ll mention some little-known strategies for meeting football fans on hookup sites, but we’ll also create an ultimate list of stadiums to visit with your partner. And, of course, we’ll include historical facts…

-A Dating Site to Meet Your Football Lover

Nowadays, it seems like everyone prefers casual dates over long-term relationships. That’s good because that paved the path for a high-level site for local hookups where singles can quickly filter the community and meet people with similar interests. That’s possible because of the modern features such as matchmaking games and filters. While matchmaking games are great because they let the algorithm know about one’s taste, it may take a couple of hours of swiping to find someone. Of course, that doesn’t stop singles from chatting with more than one person.

But while most people focus on Hot or Not games, those looking for quick wins know that manual filters are the most effective tool for pinpointing ideal partners. They let people hide everyone outside their area or show only those members with desired body type, hair color, etc.
Some people don’t know that manual filters don’t work only on physical features. They let singles filter the community based on their interests so football fans seeking other football fans can find each other in seconds…

However, for that to work, a person must mention that they love football on their profiles. Even uploading photos in football gear or at football stadiums helps because other fans can instantly relate.

And if those pictures are from one of the stadiums below, date proposals probably keep coming…

-Rose Bowl (Pasadena, California)

Known as one of the most iconic stadiums in American sports history, the Rose Bowl has hosted numerous historic events, including Super Bowls and college football's Rose Bowl Game. It’s set in San Gabriel Mountains making it ideal for romantic dates.

Since 1922 Rose Bowl has become synonymous with college football's New Year's Day tradition. A fun fact about the Rose Bowl is that it wasn’t a Bowl but a horseshoe. It was expanded several times. The southern stands were completed in 1928. That’s when it got its famous shape.

-Lambeau Field (Green Bay, Wisconsin)

Home of the Green Bay Packers, Lambeau Field is often called the "Frozen Tundra" due to its chilly climate during football season. A romantic date at Lambeau Field could include a tour and exploring its rich history and legendary status in the NFL. Lambeau Field opened in 1957 and has become an enduring symbol of football excellence and community spirit. And here’s a fun fact that might impress a fellow football fan… Lambeau Field is the second-largest stadium in the NFL and has 81,441 seats.

-Soldier Field (Chicago, Illinois)

Soldier Field is the oldest NFL stadium in continuous operation. Add a prime location along the shores of Lake Michigan, and it’s clear why a couple of football fans would love to have a romantic date there.

It was built in 1924 as a memorial to American soldiers. Since then, the stadium has had a couple of makeovers, but its energy never changed. It’s still perfect for a romantic evening. Even a vanilla sunset picnic on the surrounding park grounds becomes memorable when followed by a stroll through the stadium's historic columns and arches.

And if the stadium takes your breath away, that’s because it was one of the most expensive sports venues in the US at that time. The stadium cost $13 million to construct (in 1922), which would be $232 million in 2023.

-Michigan Stadium (Ann Arbor, Michigan)

Commonly known as "The Big House," Michigan Stadium is the largest stadium in the United States. With a seating capacity of over 100,000 spectators, the stadium offers a grand backdrop for a memorable date night during a game or even during one of the tours. Built in 1927, Michigan Stadium has a rich history of hosting legendary football games, making it a unique and impressive setting for a romantic outing.

Sitting there, looking at the empty field, and talking about all the Hall of Fame guys who touched that grass is a great date idea for football fans. Now imagine how exciting it’d be to be a drop in the ocean of fans enjoying the game at The Big House.
That goes right to our dating bucket list.

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Ever seen a penalty flag thrown and wondered, "Wait, why'd they move the ball THAT far?" Well, friends, get ready to dive into the strange world of "half-the-distance" penalties in American football!

These penalties, often triggered by infractions inside a team's own territory, can result in some truly eye-opening yardage assessments. Today, we'll be tackling some of the longest half-the-distance penalties in NFL history. We'll be dissecting the plays, the penalties, and the impact they had on the game. Were they backbreakers for the offending team? Did they create crazy scoring opportunities for the defense?

So, buckle up, football fans! Let's get ready to analyze some of the most unusual and potentially game-changing penalties the NFL has ever seen!

Let's listen to some of the most extended half-the-distance penalties in Football History by Timothy Brown of Football Archaeology.

-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown on the Longest Half-Distance Penalties

Hello, my football friends; this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. We also have another great episode where we get to talk to Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com. Talk about one of his most recent tidbits. Some of those unique aspects of football history.

Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Thank you, Darin. I Look forward to talking about the penalty situation in football.

Yeah, this is a very fascinating tidbit you had back in late May. It was titled football's longest half the distance penalty. Now we're we're sitting there, you know, in our modern times, we think of a half a distance penalty.

You know, somebody gets penalized and gets the penalty, gets walked back towards their own goal line. And usually, maybe they're at the nine-yard line, and it's, you know, a holding call, and they got to walk back to the four and a half or whatever. That's what we're doing.

But you're talking about something entirely different here as far as yardage. It's not a four-and-a-half-yard walk-off. These are some of the massive jaunts for the teams to travel.

So please do tell. You know, I mean, so early football didn't necessarily have distance penalties as we think of them today. Typically, the penalty for the fouls that were called was the loss of the ball.

You know, it was a turnover. But then they, you know, kind of recognized those were too severe. So then they started, you know, especially after the field got marked with yard lines, and they started doing distance penalties.

And so in 1889, there were they created that was the first half the distance penalties, and that was for, you know, intentionally tackling below the knees because you couldn't tackle below the knees, then budding, tripping and throttling, which was choking. And so that penalty was 25 yards or half the distance. And then, you know, later on, they started doing some things where it was.

Like in 1908, they kind of bundled all the unsportsmanship penalties together, and they made it if you committed an unsportsmanlike penalty, then you were disqualified and your team was penalized half the distance. And that that stayed in place till like 1947. And then then they limited the half distance to to 15 yards.

Right. So you couldn't be more than it was, whichever was 15 yards or half the distance, but Max was 15 yards. And so that's, you know, like you said in the open, it was, we think of a half a distance, half the distance penalty is applying when you're inside your own 30.

Right. If you're at the 45, either either 45, it doesn't matter. It's just whatever the normal penalty is.

And, you know, we cap them at 15 yards nowadays, but 25-yard penalties used to be pretty common. So, you know, before we kept them, there was the opportunity in a half-the-distance world for some really long penalties. And now, I mean.

I'm kind of limited by the way I can search in these newspaper databases, so I'm searching for keywords and strings of words. So I can't say that I found the longest. It's what I found that was the longest that I found, but it's still pretty long.

So the longest one that I came across was in a 1901 game Northwestern against Minnesota. Northwestern was in the red zone. They were on Minnesota's eight yard line.

A Northwestern player jumped off the side and slugged a Minnesota player. So they called the penalty. So they were on the eight.

This was in the days of the 110-yard field. So that meant that you know, 110 minus eight was 104 or no, I'm sorry, 102. And so they walked off a 51-yard penalty against Northwestern, which took the ball, as it turned out, it took the ball all the way back to Northwestern's 51-yard line.

Right. And then, in 1906, I found Vanderbilt got nailed for a 32-yard penalty in the same year Penn State got hit with a 30-yard penalty. And then, at that point, I stopped looking.

You know, I mean, I found a couple of instances, and then, in 1912, they reduced the length of the field to 100 yards. So there's no way you were going to have a 50 another 51 yard penalty. So anyway, it's possible that there was a 52, 53, or 54-yard penalty at some point out there.

I didn't find it. But if somebody else wants to go look at it and let me know if you find it. But, you know, it's still it's just kind of, you know, really fun.

And that that these existed. And then, but even after the field was reduced, you know, the thirty-three Pittsburgh Pirates running back was heading into the head, headed towards the end zone. Stiff arms the opponent but stiff arms him in the face.

And he gets called for an unsportsmanlike penalty at the two-yard line. So, there is a forty-nine-yard penalty as they walk off half the distance. Right.

So that's likely the longest or at least ties for the longest. So in the hundred yard NFL officials have been against the Steelers even before they were the Steelers back in the Pirates days in the first year. Yeah.

Thirty-three. I'm not going to play your game there with the officials who do not understand your Steelers. But the other thing that's just kind of funny is, OK, so now this half-the-distance thing is capped, you know, at 15 yards.

But you mentioned your favorite Steelers and now I grew up a Packer fan, but I've lived in Detroit long enough that there is a certain amount of lioness that has become part of my body. So I can appreciate, given the Lions history, that in 2015, a cornerback to the Lions incurred a 66 yard pass interference penalty. Because, you know, in the NFL, pass interference is a spot foul, right? Right.

So 66 yards downfield, he committed a little P.I. And so it was the Packers, which was OK by my standards. So, you know, 66 yards on a penalty. Yeah, those are astounding facts.

I did an article last year. I did some of the NFL's longest fourth and yardage to go penalties. It was it was fascinating.

I mean, we had a fourth and twenty nine that was converted by Ray Rice in 2012. The Oakland Raiders had a third and forty eight against Kansas City that I think they end up getting first down back in 2013. But in 1971, the Patriots had fourth and sixty three against the Cowboys.

And the biggest one, though, was my Steelers had fourth and seventy four against the Raiders in 1970. And they punted and the punt only traveled fifty five yards. So they were still 20 yards behind the sticks after the fun.

There were no half-the-distance penalties. I was going through that earlier to see if I could find something in there that helps your story, but that's just part of the thing. Like before, like in college football, you really don't have much in the way of there are no consistent statistics until thirty-six or thirty-eight, which it is.

But even then, it was just a subset of all the major colleges. So so, you know, the things so looking for like the longest half the distance penalty, there's no source. You know, there's no database that has that.

You know, you can only search for it using like newspaper databases and, you know, those kinds of things. But the other thing that it brings up and I wanted to ask you about it as a former official. Is, you know, one of the one of the problems football had over the years was.

The lengthier the penalty, the more reluctant officials often were to call the penalty. Because, you know, they you know, they didn't want to be the ones deciding the game. I mean, they would if need be.

But on things like, you know, a lot of the early clipping calls, they weren't, and they didn't want to call clipping. You know, it's kind of just the nature of the game. People accepted it.

So things like that, you know, that. So, that was one of the reasons they got rid of those 25-yard penalties. You know, it just was too much of they felt like it put too much power in the hands of an official who often were overworked back then, especially, you know, they you had three or four men, four-man crews trying to figure out what, you know, watching everybody on the field.

You know, it just wasn't possible. Yeah, I think it's a lot of human nature. I mean, most people, and I will put most before that, don't want to inflict the ultimate sentence upon their fellow man.

So, I mean, it's just human nature. You don't want to do it. I mean, one of the things I guess we could compare in modern times is somebody getting a little loose with their arms against another player.

It's taking a swing at them. And, you know, in high school football, even a swing and a miss is an automatic ejection. And most states have it where you will not play the next game after if you're ejected in a game, you're disqualified not only for that game but for the following game.

So you're really punishing him. So so that goes to the back of officials minds. I mean, it's got to be something very blatant to to get ejected from a game for the most part, especially when you know you're going to get dequeued for the following contest.

But I think that has some merit to what you're saying. A 25-yard penalty. That's that's pretty substantial.

You know, that's a quarter of the field. And could definitely change a game in a heartbeat. Well, you know, but if you think about, you know, back to the origins of penalties, penalties were turnovers or fouls, you know, were turnovers.

The penalty was the loss of the ball. So, you know, forward passes until 1906 forward passes the turnover, you know, on sportsmanship on sportsmen like, you know, conduct until 1889 was a turnover. So, you know, and then dequeues were, you know, much more common.

I mean, people should get up in arms about targeting disqualifications now. But, you know, hey, to me, if, you know, if you if you're going to endanger, you know, if you're going to endanger another player, then that's not good. And I personally love what college football does with the targeting.

And, you know, it's called on the field, and they really take a great look at it to make sure that the official on the field was calling it on the spot to get it right, says it is going to be an impactful thing. It might be the star linebacker getting ejected or staying in the game. You know, it's so many times you see that happen in the last couple of years since they've been doing that and enforcing it and even getting rid of the penalty.

Sometimes I think it's a great thing for football. And I'm glad that they do that. Yeah.

And I mean, people go, and people make a lot of arguments against it. And, you know, hey, you know, when I played, I was aggressive with Bob about, you know, whatever, go ahead and tell your story. But it's like.

You know, you just have to learn not to hit that way in that situation. You know, they all know where the sideline is. They all know, you know, things like when the ball's coming and you can't hit the pass receiver until he gets a ball, all those things.

They're aware. And so, to me, I don't buy the argument that, you know, it can't be controlled. Right.

Go lower. Go higher. Don't hit the guy in the head.

A good legal tackle has just as much impact, I think, as somebody crushing somebody in the head or whatever. And the guy's probably not going to be hurt, you know, by a good tackle on the midsection. You know, just a good wrap-up.

So, yeah, I think that goes a lot to teach the teaching technique of modern coaches. You know, just teach them to hit and wrap up and take a guy down instead of trying to take him down with a blow. Yeah.

You don't need to decapitate. Right. Right.

Well, Tim, great stuff. Great discussion. You know, I know we got a little bit off-topic with the half-distance penalties, but it brings up so many great elements of football, of the game of yesteryear and today.

And you do that each and every day with some of these tidbits, just like this one, where you bring up something that's maybe not the mainstream talk of football history or even modern-day football, but you bring it into a new light and a story of its own. And we'd love for you to share with the listeners how they, too, can enjoy these on a daily basis. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, I just try to find things that I think are interesting every day and that shed light on past practices and hopefully illuminate something about the current game, at least something that we can compare ourselves to. And so, you know, if you're interested in following, just go to footballarchaeology.com and subscribe.

You'll get an email every day in your inbox at 7 o'clock Eastern that has that story. And otherwise, you can follow me on Twitter at football archaeology. Either way, if you're interested, consume it however it is that makes you happy.

Well, Tim, we thank you for once again joining us here. And I'm going to throw this out here, Tim, and hopefully you won't get angry with me. But these are such interesting things.

And I'm sure there are a lot of listeners who may have questions about where something started in football. And maybe we could get them in contact with you. And maybe on a future show, we could answer some of those questions.

So either you go on to Tim's website, footballarchaeology.com, or you can email me at pigskin-dispatch at gmail.com. And send in your questions about where something started. And maybe Tim has it in one of his multiple books or on one of his tidbits. And if not, he loves to put on that research hat and hit the library hard and the newspaper archives.

And we'll try to find something for you. So, Tim, thanks again. And we will talk to you again next week.

Very good. Darin, thank you very much, as always.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

Coaching plays a crucial role in the success and development of American football teams. The strategies, leadership, and vision of a coach can make a significant difference on and off the field. 

football-jersey-shirt-holding-black-smartphone-a_-kMCGLLhg">Leah Hetteberg Unsplash| AD

In this list, let's name eight legendary coaches who have left an indelible mark on the sport. They were selected based on their influence, remarkable achievements, and lasting legacy in football.

-Vince Lombardi

Whether you enjoy sports betting in New Zealand, Australia, Spain, Canada, or the United States, among other large football betting markets, Lombardi is probably a name you know. Vince Lombardi was born in Brooklyn, New York, and began his football career as an assistant coach at Fordham University. He later served as an assistant with the New York Giants before becoming the head coach of the Green Bay Packers in 1959. Under Lombardi's leadership, the Packers won five NFL Championships and the first two Super Bowls.

Lombardi is credited with developing modern football strategies, focusing on discipline, execution, and motivational techniques. His famous quote, "Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing," epitomises his competitive spirit.

Lombardi's legacy is profound. He set the standard for coaching excellence and leadership. The NFL honoured him by naming the Super Bowl trophy after him, ensuring his impact on the game endures forever. 

-Bill Belichick

Bill Belichick began his coaching career with several assistant roles, including a stint with the New York Giants, where he helped lead the team to two Super Bowl victories. His rise to prominence started when he became the head coach of the New England Patriots in 2000.

Under Belichick's leadership, the Patriots secured six Super Bowls and established themselves as one of the most powerful teams in NFL history. His coaching philosophy emphasises preparation, adaptability, and situational awareness.

Belichick is known for his innovative strategies, such as utilising versatile players and adjusting game plans to exploit opponents' weaknesses. His influence on football is immense, inspiring current and future generations of coaches to adopt a meticulous and strategic approach to the game.

-Don Shula

Don Shula's coaching career spanned over three decades, making him one of the most respected figures in NFL history. He is most popular for his time with the Miami Dolphins, where he guided the team to two Super Bowl victories and an unmatched perfect season in 1972.

Shula was renowned for his adaptable strategies and exceptional game management skills. His ability to adjust his coaching style to fit his players' strengths set him apart from his peers.

Shula's long-term impact on the sport is undeniable. His record-breaking achievements contributed significantly to football culture and inspired countless coaches and players.

-Paul "Bear" Bryant

Paul "Bear" Bryant is a legendary figure in college football, celebrated for his remarkable career and numerous achievements. He is best known for his tenure at the University of Alabama, where he transformed the football program into a powerhouse.

Bryant led the Crimson Tide to six national championships and 13 SEC titles, cementing his status as one of the greatest college football coaches ever. His success was built on a foundation of discipline, hard work, and innovative coaching techniques.

Beyond his impressive win record, Bryant's influence extended to player development, where he moulded young athletes into successful professionals. His lasting legacy is evident in both college and professional football, with many of his former players and assistants going on to achieve great success in their careers.

-Tom Landry

Tom Landry's journey to becoming a legendary coach began with his early life in Mission, Texas, where he developed a passion for football. After playing college and professional football, he transitioned into coaching, eventually becoming the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 1960.

Landry's tenure with the Cowboys was iconic, spanning 29 years and resulting in two Super Bowl victories, five NFC championships, and 20 consecutive winning seasons. He is credited with numerous innovations in defensive schemes, including the "Flex Defense," which revolutionised how teams approached defence.

Known for his calm demeanour and meticulous planning, Landry's influence extended beyond his own team. His methods in team management and game preparation set new standards in the NFL. 

-Bill Walsh

Bill Walsh's background in football began as a player and assistant coach before he found his calling as a head coach. His career milestones include transforming the San Francisco 49ers into a dominant force in the NFL during the 1980s.

Under Walsh's leadership, the 49ers secured three Super Bowl titles, establishing a dynasty known for its innovative offensive strategies. He is best remembered for creating and popularising the West Coast offence, emphasising short, precise passes to control the game and exploit defensive weaknesses.

Walsh's impact on offensive strategies reshaped how football was played, influencing countless coaches and teams. Beyond his on-field success, Walsh was passionate about coaching education programs, mentoring many future NFL head coaches and contributing to the professional development of the sport. 

-Joe Gibbs

Joe Gibbs' journey to becoming an NFL coach started with various assistant coaching roles before he took the helm of the Washington Redskins in 1981. His tenure with the Redskins was marked by remarkable achievements, including three Super Bowl victories, each with a different starting quarterback.

Gibbs was known for his unique coaching style, adaptability, and meticulous game planning. He could adjust his strategies to fit his players’ strengths, which set him apart from many of his contemporaries.

His contributions to the game's evolution are significant, particularly in offensive innovation. Even after retiring from coaching, Gibbs continued to influence the sport through his insights and leadership in other ventures, leaving an enduring legacy on and off the field.

-George Halas

George Halas, known as "Papa Bear," was a founding figure of the Chicago Bears and a key contributor to the early NFL. His coaching career spanned over four decades, and he led the Bears to six NFL championships.

Halas played a pivotal role in shaping the modern NFL, from establishing league rules to promoting professional football nationwide. His innovative ideas, such as the T-formation offence, revolutionised the game.
His enduring legacy as a pioneer in football coaching is reflected in the Bears' continued success and the many advancements in the sport he helped bring about. 

-Wrapping Up

The legacies of these legendary coaches have fundamentally shaped football, setting standards for strategy, leadership, and innovation. Their impact is evident in the modern game’s tactics and coaching methodologies. For those passionate about football, exploring their stories provides valuable insights into the sport's history and evolution. Their contributions continue to influence how the game is played and coached today, offering lessons that resonate far beyond the field.

The general respect that Coach Yost paid to his players made them love him. His teams were ready as Dr,. Behe points out that there were four main reasons for his and his football teams' successes: Curiosity; Risk Taking; Preparation; and Charisma.

This book, Coach Yost: Michigan's Tradition Maker, has so much football history in it, and you can tell the passion by which its author speaks that you are in for one great football history lesson from this Pigskin Professor, Dr. John Behee.

His latest, after over 50 years of research is titled Coach Yost: Michigan's Tradition Maker. Dr. Behee achieved a degree in History and then furthered his education at the University of Michigan and even got to spend some time as a graduate assistant coach for the Wolverines during his stay there.

Fielding Yost and his later years in coaching and administration with biographer Dr. John Behee. Here is our transcript of this portion of our conversation:

We are going to learn more from Dr. Behee in just a moment. This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatches, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of American football events throughout history on a daily basis.

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hays of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the pigpen, your portal to positive football history. And we're going to go into our recent conversation with Dr.

John Behee on his excellent book Coach Yost Michigan's Tradition Maker. You can find that book at behee.com. It's B-e-h-e-e .com. Dr. John has some great lines of communication to get you through some vendors that are selling this book.

That's outstanding. I read it is a must-read for football historians out there, especially lovers of early football and some of the brilliant minds of football, like coach Fielding Yost. So make sure you get that. In our conversation, we listened to the first parts of one and two, and if you haven't listened to either one of them yet or maybe one or the other, go back and listen to them because Dr.

Behee has such exciting insight into Coach Yost. Fielding Yost is a fascinating subject to discuss and read about, so ensure you do that. Earlier, we discussed part one of his early life and how he became a football lover, player, and early coach. Some of his early assignments as a coach, and then we got into part two, a little bit about his winning ways. He caught on and was winning right away. You got Stanford Michigan and just dominating teams that his team that Michigan played, and Stanford played, and he was really developing a good routine.

Well, now we're going to get into Dr. Behee's conversation on how Coach Yost motivated his players and made them truly one of the best teams in football history. And we'll get into that here. Here's Dr Beehe.

As I went through this research, I could see Coach Yost and his trainer, Keen Fitzpatrick, who was a world-class track coach. I could see them building the mental side of it as they went along.

When Yost started teaching skills, they were not going to be doing them correctly or perfectly at all, and they might get discouraged. You know how people can be their own worst enemies. They said to find their mistakes and beat themselves up for them.

And he would never let that happen. Never let it happen, and continue the belief that you are not only going to get it, you're going to get a form of better than anyone you play against. You will demonstrate to them how smart a guy you are and how tough you are.

I mean, eventually, he continually built that self-confidence trilogy. It was easy for people who played this game. There's a lot of point scoring here. I just gave you what they did in 1901 and 1905; they had swagger.

They were so dominating that they could see the opponents as they began to crack and collapse, even in the really big games. But they they knew eventually, they would break the will of the opponents. They were so bright because they were conditioned mentally by Yost and by Team Fitzpatrick.

Now, here's another one. I'm going to get to the one you asked about here. But anyway, rules knowledge. Rules knowledge! Now, you did some officiating for about 27 years. Yes, sir. And did you witness any examples of students or athletes who did not seem to know the rules and, therefore, suffered a penalty because of it?

No, absolutely. There's a lot of – I found it very interesting that Coach Yost taught them the rule because it probably would help almost every team out there at the high school and collegiate level, with the players knowing as well as the officials.

And it definitely helps the game go much smoother, and they can find advantages within the rules to gain over their opponents. Yeah, and so they never lost games because of a lack of knowledge of the rules.

I had a good battle that they got into the Big 10. You undoubtedly read that Michigan got bumped down to the Big 10 because they didn't want to buy some of the rules that have been put in place by the faculty.

So they've got to the east to find their opponents, and they play the pin, and the Yost is up on the rule and pin is not, and he tells the officials, and officials say, you know, Yos is correct, and then the pins say, then we're not going to play.

You can take the team and go home, but I can play, okay? And so the officials return to the ocean and say that's a big problem here. They are just not; they refused. If you say they cannot run that play that way, and I know you're right, they won't play.

Let's figure out a way to get the game going. And, so, Jospy Lynch. And they wanted to plan the games. But the point is that he knew the rules better than the officials, for God's sake. He talked to the players, and there's a fascinating photo of Coach Yosh, where they're meeting at the boarding house.

They're getting their food there. They have something there on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, five days. And I've got the page. I forgot what page it is. Anyway, I have all of the agenda.

One night, it was rules. So they had to come in with the written rules and quiz each other. And it had to be fast-paced. We move quickly, and the game moves quickly, so you have to make quick decisions correctly.

That's innovative coaching. When you know the rules quickly because you've rehearsed them, you're not going to make mistakes and give games away. And they didn't. Here's another one.

Cross-training. Now, that one got me. No player would know what position he was going to be playing. Because Joost said, you will play the position where you can help our team the most. I'm going to play quarterback. I'll do this and that because I will get a lot of ink.

They won't tell you that, but that's what they think. I'll feel a lot of pressure over that. No, that's not true. I'm a receiver. No, you are where you can help our team the most. We are, first and foremost, teams.

And the other thing that did was that you couldn't hurt them with an injury, and they were rarely injured. They were in outstanding physical condition, excellent in terms of training and mechanics, and they could play almost anywhere.

So if you hit, somebody went down, somebody else was in. And the other thing too, now this is not, one of the articles that I've read in the Michigan Daily that impressed me was talking about eligibility, and sometimes when I know that this was true with Stag at Chicago, he had some outstanding players, but he also had some players who refused to go to class.

They weren't dumbbells, they were just lazy guys, and they could get by with it because Stagg would go to the professors, and of course he had a president who would back him up on anything he wanted to do, including getting faculty members to give people grades.

It's because we gotta have a football team that represents Chicago well. When that whole thing was coming up and being discussed in papers and in admission, The faculty athletic representative at Michigan said, I can't remember once when Yos had a player who had conditions and had to work them off before he got back to play.

I cannot remember when he came and said you got to give him a better grade. He took the players that were available and played with them every single time. and the guys who were not academically eligible set out until they got their conditions worked off and get back into play.

That's remarkable. That is quite a testament to the coach, that's for sure. Yeah. Now you've got game participation. He was a perfectionist, my God. He knew more about what you wanted to do than you did if you were the opposing coach.

He knew your players better than you knew them, and he taught his players to analyze the opponents. Now, the coach is the only one who can make decisions around here. You guys have to know how tough it is for your guy to get over that.

What can we do? Do you need to double up on one guy? What do you do? What does he need to make them think and continue things? Of course, you received tremendous support from the paper and student paper at the rally.

4 ,000 students would come for a rally on a Friday night. It was a university hall at first and then became Hill Auditorium after that, when that structure was built. But they've run songs, cheers, and he would say all the right things to them.

He could hold that crowd of 4,000 students in the palm of his hand. If he were quiet, taking a measured speech, they would sit on the edge of their seats, waiting for the next word. I mean, he was a master of psychology.

Doctor, can I interject in here? You have a couple of things where you show where Yost is in some uncomfortable positions, and he makes some statements that are really quite remarkable. The one you were saying with the point-of-minute teams when they were on that great winning streak that they had, and this isn't verbatim what he said, but he basically said it wasn't his job to stop his team from performing at their peak, that was his opponent's job to do.

I found that to be interesting. I guess he was running up the score he was being questioned on. Yeah, and his whole point was that all this is good. It almost sounds like all I ask of you is everything. You know, you loved me for a lot of my life. You know, that sort of thing.

That's all I ask of you. That beautiful music from Phantom of the Opera. All I ask you, man, is that you give me 100% for every single play and practice in the game. That is all that I asked. So, the concept is that you cannot take the day off.

You can't take a playoff; I need you every single play. He started telling them this at the start of the season, during spring training and fall workouts. He started to tell them, we run people off the field.

In the Iowa game, let's see, this is 1901, 1902 I think it is, yeah, in December. Now they like to play the Michigan does, the final game in Chicago because you get a good crowd. So they're going to play Iowa there.

Iowa is going be the final games of the season. I think Chicago is about game number eight in that year. So, they are going to play in Iowa. Iowa has an excellent team. Michigan runs against Iowa in 217 plays.

I mean, it is just when you talk to me all if I'm going to if we're going to be the kind of team that I want you to be, he says we do not stop for people we call the play while we were unscrambling from the previous play so we know and I and the center have got to get right back where he can set the ball and anybody who's late getting back there is going to hold the whole team up you have to get back and get in the position we're going to go and go. It doesn't take very much for a team to; he's got them all stuck in the air on defense, and his team is going wild.

That whole concept of being able to play any position, being to play fast. What was your comment that brought this on that sparked me to go in this direction? What were you just saying about this?

Yeah, he says it wasn't his job to stop his team from performing at their peak and running up the score against somebody. That's his opponent's job, to start his teams from scoring. And yeah, because all I can do is coach my team, and you see how I'm coaching my team, we are going to go, go go.

And he's in practice at Michigan. He's got them going up and down the field doing single drills, and he is shouting, hurry up, come on. Hurry up. The students nicknamed him Fielding "Hurry Up" Yost.

They found a new initial for the H—a new word for the "h" in his little name. Yeah, and so then he loved it. He just, oh, it brings a smile from ear to ear for it to be called Hurry Up Yoast. And see, I'm trying to think where I was going to go next.

Anyway, see the concept of fast, fast play. Go ahead. Well, I wanted to mention another statement that he made sort of on the other end of things when he was sort -of in a sticky situation, uncomfortable situation.

You have in the rare cases that his Michigan team suffered a loss, you have them quoted as saying, if you lose, don't find excuses; just congratulate the winners and move on. That was a powerful message to his players.

And, yeah, and I've got a page in here where I just, there are so many hurry-ups, I didn't want to put them all in the book, but I set ones that were a pretty choice, and you read those, if you're a coach or if your person who's working with youth sports, you look at that and say, I want to use that.

My goodness, one of them was that we didn't have time to get even. So if there's been an unfair situation like the last play, forget that because the next play might be the one that wins the game for us. You hear that enough.

You learn to be thick-skinned. Words of wisdom, that is, too. We could all probably use that in all walks of life, not just football. Yeah, and then back to the coaching about the officiating, one of his career officers said, you have not been assigned to referee this game.

That's in someone else's hands. We have given you other assignments. You focus on yours. I'm thinking; I've seen so many people, the teams out there where they're trying to show the official East Holding Michigan, you know it said all that gets you is some of the disappointment of the officiating crew that you have to beg and beg for God's sakes play the game pal learn to play in the games.

No, I think I bet you that's probably where coach Bill Belichick and in our modern times gets it where he just tells his players to do their job. That is all you have to just do your job. Don't worry about anything else.

Just do your job." Yeah, and the other thing, too, that I feel this is a part of Coach Joe's success formula is that the respect he had for officials, I can tell because I've watched enough sports events, I can tell when a coach has an official who will not hurt him with his calls.

You can just tell it. And you can when they're homers. Sometimes, if it's blatant, you can't tell. When they are hovering for the basketball, they call it that. There's a guy who's got four on him, and out he goes, and the game goes to the other team.

I mean, I can see that stuff. He had such great rapport with the officials that they were proud to cook to officiate his games. And he had enormous respect for the game. Did you see some examples and the coach's book where he kind of got hosed at the time by people?

They go so fast. His team does. The only way we can stop him is to fake injury. So we do that. And so then he stuck. But there are a couple of really good examples of that that I show in the book. And what did he do?

Okay, all right. Iowa went back when he was in Kansas. And so they're fending injury, and then finally, they show up late for the game. It's an afternoon game, so you're out of daylight, and they know they are going to go fast, so he has to argue every play to coach this for Iowa, has to argue every play, and delay, delay, and finally comes out at the end of the game, they all says it's too dark, Kansas is going to go back ahead, or not Kansas, I forgot, maybe Nebraska, they're going have a chance to go ahead in the games, so he comes up and says, it was too dark we've got to quit, quit.

The Yost team got the short end of a stick there in several ways throughout the game. He shakes hands and goes home. He is not going to do anything that would bring discredit to the game; he is going to preach clean football, and when it's over, it is over.

That is a lesson that we can all learn from, I think. And I think it's a good time to bring up another point that you make; you say multiple times in the book that in all those years of coaching, he never once said a curse word at a game or practice.

And that's unbelievable for what he was teaching and these men that are aggressive and doing aggressive actions and probably did some things that he didn't like and never to have a poor choice of words that would offend anybody.

I thought that was a remarkable attribute of Coach Yost. He's really a classy guy. A braggart, my God, yes, and he just beat you to death because he's so much better than you are. You don't even get a chance to lick your wounds; he is already getting press releases.

So there are a lot of reasons to not like the guy, but no cuss words. In the 26 years I've been on coaching programs where, I don't think the guys could go 26 minutes without coaching. And their feeling is that this is a part of the way you inspire athletes to do something difficult.

Well, I know some coaches who can't go 26 words without saying a curse word. Jared, you got it right. So that's a remarkable, remarkable record. No one keeps records like that. And then also drinking.

He was a teetotaler without questions the whole time. Interesting guy and very remarkable. Okay, now before I let you go, I want you to tell me in your own words you've written a biography on this man twice, so you were the foremost expert, I think, on Fielding Yost that is around, that's ever been probably, besides Field in Yos himself.

So what is maybe the one quality? Could you just say one thing about Coach to somebody to sort of sum him up? What would that be? Or one story, you know, however, you want to sum it up? First of all, he was a perfectionist.

He left nothing to chance that he could influence in a positive way. He was remarkably flexible in his approach to the game while people would come up with an offense that someone was doing really, especially some of the East, Harvard, and Yale, that they were doing very well.

And then they just copied that. He didn't copy anybody. He was as innovative as they come. Looking back over 29 years of coaching, four major traits, calm strengths that we will can be seen in Coach Yost.

They seem to be replicated in most high achievers in many different occupations. First, curiosity. Yost had an insatiable desire to learn. It drove him from a country schoolhouse to a law degree. From the East Coast to the far West, a trip he would eventually take 20 times from his father's outfitting supply store to a deep understanding of mineral exploration.

From preparing a young team for a football game to building a program that would produce national champions. He never stopped thinking and learning. Second, risk-taking. As a college athlete, Yost chose to test his athletic and mental skills against the best.

He made mistakes, learned from them. And incidentally, that's why risk -taking is so important to high achievers. because you then learn how to handle defeat and come back in a different way, learning, having learned more, and overcome the the loss.

He chose an occupation, the hunt for veins of minerals, a business fraught with risk. Then he said about to learn enough to turn risk into profit. And setting a schedule at Michigan, he loved the high stakes big games.

Third, preparation. He learned that his success was coarsely aligned with the thoroughness of his preparation. Fourth is charisma. Back in 1970, when Vinnie Ustrand, Michigan's great, great all-American, read my manuscript of the Oost, the host and his coach.

I asked him, what was it about Coach Yost that you were most impressed with? He did not hesitate. He said when Coach Yost entered the room, he had a commanding presence. He had charisma. When he put pen to paper, he made his ideas clear and convincing.

His self-assurance moved our teams from We should do it; we can do it in practice to We will do it by game time. Looking back on Coach Yost, he gave evidence of that leadership quality even in those early coaching years.

I don't think I'm reading this now correctly. I am getting a little bit of an error here. And then, of course, well, I think that's it: curiosity, risk-taking, preparation, charisma. Wow. That is really some great wisdom for coaching in any sport in an era that could be very valuable to anybody out there.

And I thank Coach Yost for sort of learning that on the fly in from some great people that he was around, and you know his great networking ability, and I'm going to get on my soapbox here for a little bit because you doctor your book is so filled with information about Coach Yost, but at the same time it preserves such a great period in football history, and there there are so many little stories and tangents that we could have gone on in this conversation, and I think I'll save that for your readers to get a copy of the book and get this and once again you can get that it's called Coach Yost Michigan's tradition maker behe .com and he's got some information here where you can go to, and you'll learn all these little stories and the ins and outs not only about Coach Jost but some of the other aspects of football it goes into a lot with you know like Coach Amos Alonzo's stag and some rivalry he had with there.

There are so many little stories that I'm going to treasure and probably read again here real soon because it's just such a fascinating book, and the readers will find that excessively satisfying to their football appetite as I have.

And just one of those books is great. And Dr. Behee, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing with us this incredible story of Dr. Jocelyn for sharing and writing this second book to give us this information on this great man in football history and preserving the football industry.

So thank you, sir. You're welcome, and Darin, thank you for having me. And if we get some conversations going later on, you and I, there were some exciting things we need to discuss. First of all, in that 1903 game, We had one of our students in Michigan who was really good at telegraphy; the telephone company built him a 40-foot tower near the 55-yard line, which was Midfield, and he sent back information to the students gathered at the university in the hall, so they had ten telephones.

Well, anyway, it was very interesting how they got some play-by-play in 1903. And then we got sophisticated enough. One of the Ohio State faculty fellows in the 1910s and 15s came up with a grid grab.

It was a big football clock. It had all kinds of information on it, like the game, you know, the scoreboards today. And that thing—we didn't have about 4,000 students sitting there watching that game.

They couldn't get up to Minneapolis, Minnesota, to play, to see the game, so there were a number of things there that I think were really interesting that would surprise people who did not know what those innovations were.

We will have you on again. And we can do some other things for your listeners. Okay, I find that they gotta get your book. That's for sure. That's for Sure, Dr.

Thank you again, and we will talk to you again soon. I'll get you on another podcast here. Thanks.

Thanks, Darren. That was a great conversation.

We have Dr. John Behee, a great biographer, writing about Coach Yost, Michigan's tradition makers, the book's name for the second time. You can get it at behe .com, B -E -H- E -DOT -COM. You could look for the links here in the show notes or go to pigskindispatch.com for any one of the three parts that we've had with Dr. John Behee talking about his Coach Yost book. A great coach, part of football history, and some of the traditions that Michigan has been carried on through all, even to this day, some a hundred-odd years later. So, it was a great book and a great conversation. Thank you Dr. Behee.

Sometimes, the rough and tumble-game of football is tragic. Severe injuries and even deaths have occurred to participants who were just trying to enjoy the game.

Timothy Brown brought to light one of these circumstances from 1910 in a Tidbit he wrote about an interesting incident at Bethany College in 1910.

-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown Murder Football Field

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of PigScanDispatch.com. Welcome again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And welcome to another Tuesday.

We have Timothy P. Brown here from FootballArcheology.com. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen. Hey, Darin.
Look forward to chatting.

It's a potentially difficult topic that we're going to talk about, but. I'll let that story develop as we go. Yeah, this one is kind of surprising.

Usually, your titles and your articles are a little bit lighter. And your title from early October was Murder on the Football Field. A little bit of a mystery hangs over with that.

I wanted to read this article like any good Agatha Christie or Alfred Hitchcock. I'm sure a lot of the other readers of FootballArcheology.com did, too. So we are glad you were here to tell us about this instance in this article.

Yeah, so, you know, one of the things I enjoy doing, you know, is kind of set up to some of these some of our discussions on your podcast is to just kind of talk about, well, how did I come across this issue or idea or information? And so this is one where, you know, I'm always looking at old RPPCs, so real photo postcards. And some of them I buy just, you know, because the guys are wearing some old equipment or, you know, the gear they have is just so horrible that it's just, you know, kind of almost amazing that they decided to play. And other times, it's just photographically, or something is appealing to it.

So, in this case, I came across an RPPC. It showed through the backfield for the Bethany College team in West Virginia from 1910. And I thought the picture was amusing because they're standing on the field.

You can see the goalposts in the background, and not too far behind the goalposts, but not too far to the left is a school building. With a bunch of glass windows, I just thought, OK, well, hopefully they had an accurate kicker. But, you know, if they didn't, then they broke some windows.

That's actually what got me interested in the image. But then, a lot of times, what I do is, you know, I knew it was identified as 1910 Bethany. So I did a quick search on them and found out that in one of their games, an opposing player had died.

And so then I said, OK, I'm going to bid on it. So I had a thing, and eventually, you know, I got it. And so then that's when I really kind of dove into the research.

It just did enough to know, OK, I could probably make a story out of this. So, I mean, what happened is that Bethany College, a small school in West Virginia, they were playing for the second time they were playing West Virginia University in football that year. And, you know, they'd lost, I think, a tie to a close game earlier in the year.

And so this is like, you know, if there's a 10-game season, there's a 7th or 8th game of the season. And the game had been pretty chippy. And, in fact, the Bethany coach had complained to the officials about, you know, just some of the behavior in the game.

And so, with a couple of minutes left, Virginia's quarterback, a guy named Monk, kicks a field goal to seal the game, make it 5-0. So, Bethany was pretty much going to be out of it. And then, several plays later, Monk is still on the field.

He gets by a Bethany player, falls to the ground, is carried off the field, and dies a couple of hours later. So now, you know, some of the initial reports came out. So, you know, any time a player died in a game, and especially in, you know, this is a fairly big-time game, you know, it got publicized.

So there were, you know, if you looked at almost any small town newspaper in the country, it had a short article about this player who was killed in a football game. The initial articles said that the umpire had kicked the Bethany player, a guy named McCoy and that he had seen McCoy hit Monk from behind. And then, so he thought it was deliberate.

And so then he kicked him out of the game for that. And then, you know, basically, right away, the local coroner sets up a coroner's inquest. It's going to be scheduled for a couple of days later, and he orders McCoy to appear. He wasn't arrested, but he was the next thing to being arrested.

And the whole thing was, OK, he was the coroner was viewing this as a case of he was investigating it as a murder. And so obviously that made it, you know, the headlines all the more dramatic. And, you know, pretty much right away, both schools canceled the rest of their football season.

So then, when it comes time to do the inquest, McCoy shows up. But by that time, the umpire was kind of walking back to some of his earlier comments. So, yes, he had kicked McCoy out of the game, but he was no longer saying, well, I saw him hit from behind.

And then other people, nobody on either team said, saw the hit. But there were people in the crowd who testified at this inquest that. McCoy hit Monk from in front, and it was basically a standard football play.

So nothing, you know, nothing unusual from that from that vantage point. Now, then, what was revealed in this inquest is that Monk. Had a history of concussions and even beyond anything that you can even think happened today.

The previous year, he had in a game, he had been hit, and he went down unconscious. The newspapers varied whether he was unconscious for two days or two weeks, but he was out of it for a significant amount of time. And then, you know, basically, the doctor said you cannot play football anymore.

His parents told him you could not play football anymore, but he went back to school for his senior year, went out for the football team, and, you know, because he's, you know, this hard-nosed kid or whatever, the team looks to be captain, you know. So, so basically, you know, once that testimony came out that, you know, the coroner is like, well, this is an accidental death. Right.

You know, you can't, you know, even if this, even if McCoy had done something dastardly, you know, Monk was playing when he shouldn't have been. And, you know, he had this history of, you know, significant head injury, and yet he went out there and played again. You know, so anyways, you know, it's one of those where, you know, there's some other little extenuating circumstances.

But I think for me, then, you know, I don't recall seeing other instances where, you know, somebody was being, was potentially charged with murder for activity on a football field. I'm sure there are other situations, you know, I probably should do some searching for that. But it kind of raises the question of what would it take to, you know, so what would have to happen today for people to leave the field and, or, you know, folks in the stands and look at it and say, that guy ought to be charged with murder, you know, in the event somebody was killed as a result of being hit or struck, you know, on a football field.

So, you know, you know, in my mind, I see certain, I'm not advocating necessarily for the murder charge, but I'm not advocating against it. But there are some of the targeting hits that I think are horribly foul, you know, in terms of the way that some, you know, players are hitting one another. There, I've seen cases, more at youth level, actually, than among older kids, where somebody grabs a face mask and is literally like spinning another guy around, you know, twisting his neck, that kind of thing.

What would you know if that happened? And then you got, you know, another case would be, you know, sometimes it's these fights, you know, and somebody's helmet comes off. But if somebody took their helmet and swung it, hit another guy who doesn't have his helmet on, you know, if you hit him in the head. It's sort of that Miles Garrett, Mason Rudolph from a Steelers-Browns game, probably about four or five years ago.

I think that was a famous case of that with Miles Garrett swinging the helmet at an uncapped Mason Rudolph or whatever, whatever happened before that because they were talking about maybe pressing charges there, and it didn't even make contact, you know, for assault. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you think about it, it's like, OK, how far does the fact that you're playing a football game absolve you from your behavior? You know, behavior that, you know, I mean, you played the game.

One of the great things about it is you can go run into a guy, slam him, and take him to the ground, and it's all sanctioned. Everybody's happy that you did it, right? You can't do that on the street, right? And you can't do it in your classroom. You get to do it on the football field.

And yet where, you know, where does one cross the line? I just think it's an interesting question. Thankfully, you know, it's not one that we have to face, at least, you know, certainly very often, but, you know, the potential is out there, you know, that so it's kind of, I mean, it's not that you have to answer the question. Still, it's just, you know, to think about what would it take, what would it take to for somebody, you'd say, OK, that that guy ought to be charged with murder for that. Yeah, are you going to solve this mystery? I don't know if I want to be the judge and jury on that one. That's yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, especially nowadays, we have video on everything from little kids' games.

You have probably three or four parents filming it. Everything's filmed, though, you know, and you get the NFL games. You got forty-five cameras from every angle of the stadium looking at it and, you know, five drones and whatever.

You know, so I think you can probably figure out what's going on pretty much on almost any football game, especially major college and professional and probably a lot of the other ones, too. So, I think you may have more video evidence if a crime happened on a football field than you would maybe even at a bank. You know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point. I bet it was like, you know, very few games, you know, were filmed and certainly not a Bennie West Virginia game, you know, I'm right just wasn't going to happen, you know.

So, yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, I mean, just another one of those other examples of where technology just changes, changes the questions and the answers and. So.

Yeah, and I think it's crazy, crazy, crazy; I think there's more of a camaraderie in football, maybe in the more modern eras when there's a brotherhood, and everybody understands, you know, that you're all on the same side and you can get somebody can get hurt badly if you do a cheap shot because you see, you know, teammates and opponents come together when somebody goes down. I think even more so than this era where people just, you know, wanted to hurt you sometimes, and that was just the way the game was at that period of time. Yeah, so I think it's a little bit more. It's calmed down a little bit, and people understand a little bit more that they can really do some damage to somebody.

Yeah, and I think, you know, obviously the the protective gear and everything is much better, obviously, all the concussion protocols are we're in a lot of space. Both have bigger, faster, stronger athletes. So, you know, it's.

That getting that goes on is really pretty incredible; that's true, and people are still getting hurt, and sometimes even death is occurring, and that's a bad thing, too. So hopefully, we will get some technology, rules, and techniques and try to prevent people from getting permanently injured and, you know, even worse. So, hopefully, that's in the future for football.

So, Tim, we really appreciate you bringing up this story; I mean, it brings up you bring up a lot of questions; people are going to be thinking about this, I know I'll be thinking about this and something that happened, you know, one hundred and ten, one hundred fifteen years ago and, you know, bringing some light to it and bringing some memory of this young man that passed away playing a game that he loved, even to the point where he knew he was in danger playing it and did it anyway and to his own detriment. And, you know, it all comes through just seeing a building with a bunch of windows and a goalpost by it. And you're really interesting.

So, yeah, you have some interesting things like this each day in your tidbits on footballarchaeology.com. And maybe you could share with the listeners how they, too, can participate in reading this and enjoying your work. Yeah, so, you know, the easiest, best, and my preferred way would be that somebody goes to goes to the site, you know, www.footballarchaeology.com, subscribe, you'll get an email every night at seven o'clock Eastern with that day's story. Alternatively, you can follow me on Twitter, in threads, or on the Substack app.

Of course, you can always bookmark the site and visit it periodically. But do whatever works for you. The information is out there, so have at it and consume it however you prefer.

All right, well, footballarchaeology.com is the website; we have the show notes and the links to get to this particular tidbit, we'll also have a link in there, too, that'll get you to the rest of Tim's site. And his name is Timothy P. Brown, and we enjoy him each and every Tuesday here on Pigskin Dispatch. And Tim, we thank you once again for shedding some light and enlightenment on Football of Antiquity.

Very good. Thank you, sir. And we will see you next week.

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Timothy P. Brown, in his FootballArchaeology.com Daily Tidbit, reveals the evolution of pass interference in football. An interesting origin and need for the rule arose as the forward pass morphed.

-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown Football Before Pass Interference

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another edition where we get to go down that historic road into some football archaeology with the host and founder of FootballArchaeology.com, Timothy P. Brown. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Thank you, Darin, for this beautiful summer evening. Glad to be sitting inside in my basement talking with you. And I, too, am in a basement where it's much cooler than the rest of the house and 80-degree weather that we're not used to, going from 50s to 80s in a couple of days.
It's kind of a shock to the system. But we've got a little bit of a shock to the system in one of your recent tidbits that we're going to discuss tonight. And you have a great title to it, and it's called Before There Was Pass Interference.
And I don't think any of us listening or talking on the subject remember before pass interference. So we're really interested to hear what it was like. Yeah.

Yeah. And I still, I've got an article that I've been working on for quite some time to try to describe the difficulty of coming up with a passing attack in 1906. So, the forward pass was new.

And the fact that they, well, they didn't have a pass interference penalty when the forward pass was first legalized. And so, you know, just to kind of set the scene for that or, you know, to describe why, you know, it's the fact that, you know, I think we now tend to think of, we think of passing the way we've always known it, you know, the overhand spiral, throwing the ball down the field, airing it out. And that's not what they conceived of at the time.

You know, football had, you know, all basically always had forward passing. It was just legal. And for them, a forward pass was a forward lateral.
So it was these, you know, just short little, either inadvertent or, you know, on purpose, they tossed the ball forward. And if the referee caught it, they were penalized for it. And it was actually, you know, a loss, you know, they lost the ball.

So when the forward pass was first legalized, most people were thinking in terms of fairly short-range kind of tosses, you know, pitch kinds of approaches. And, you know, the techniques were, you know, there was kind of the basketball two-hand set shot, sort of, you know, pushing the ball to another guy, the grenade toss, things like that. So, and so, you know, if you think of the forward pass in those very short-range kinds of dimensions, you probably weren't thinking in terms of pass interference.

I mean, people were getting jostled around, you know, I mean, they were, somebody was tackling you, and the guy in front of you was blocking and, you know, maybe you pitched the, you know, you pitched the ball to the guy who was blocking. And so, you know, pass interference didn't kind of make sense conceptually. The other thing that was related to that is that in 1906, they also expanded the onside punt.

So, making every player on the offense eligible to run downfield and get and recover a punt for the off or for the kicking team, regardless of whether they were offside or onside relative to the punter. So, you know, and football already had, you know, they didn't call them gunners that didn't come till maybe the fifties or something. But they had, you know, their ends would split out oftentimes on punts if it was, you know, a planned punt.

And so then, you know, that guy would get jostled by a defender all the way down. And so, you know, the expectation was somebody running downfield like that was going to get hit. So there was just not a, you know, they just didn't conceive of a forward, the forward passing game we know and love today.

And so they didn't think of pass interference the same way. And so they played the first two seasons without really without any rules regarding pass interference. And then in in 1908, they adopted a new rule that said the defense can push the offense out of the way to get to the ball and to try to catch the ball.

But there were no restrictions on the offense. So they could they didn't even have to, you know, they could push the guy so he wouldn't catch the ball, you know, the defender to not catch the ball. And so that stuck around until 1910.

That sounds like a whole lot more fun to watch than what we have today. Yeah. Well, you just I mean, you think about it.

I mean, like the, you know, press coverage and, you know, some of the things, you know, where now, you know, the defenders can't hit the receiver, you know, five after five yards downfield, things like that. You know, those rules, you know, weren't around until like, you know, I think it was the early 70s when those rules came into being, you know, and then that was obviously, you know, when the so you couldn't be in contact when the ball was in the air. Prior to that, it was kind of anything goes.

So that was, you know, maybe to some extent, the remnant of it. But yeah, I don't think the five-yard chuck rule in the NFL came into maybe the late 70s or early 80s. I think it was pretty prevalent during the 70s.
You could have contact, and yeah, right. Yeah, because I mean, the Raiders were the, you know, probably the foremost that, yeah, Lester Hayes and Mel Blount were guilty of it, too. All of them were big corners.

So then, in 1910, they said, OK, you can't, you can't make contact. You can't push or shove, you know, but you could kind of use your body if you're making a bona fide attempt to catch the ball, which is fundamentally the rule that we have today. You know, they also just for 1910, they got rid of it in 1911.

They also added the rule that the defender could not tackle the receiver until he had taken one step after catching the ball, which kind of presages, you know, the targeting or defenseless player, you know, sort of sort of thing. But they got rid of it, you know, after just one year and, you know, just left it at, you know, basically at that point, they said, OK, once he catches the ball or touches the ball, then it's Katie bar the door. But so, you know, it's really, you know, it took a couple of years for pass interference to come into being.

And then, you know, by basically 1910, are pretty much our current. Handling and view of pass interference came into being, you know, now what happens in the hand chucking and all that kind of stuff, press coverage that has changed. But pass interference is pretty much what it is.

Yeah, that's that's an interesting look at it. And, you know, it's stayed pretty consistent through all the years. It's too bad that the definition of a catch hasn't stayed that same way because it seems like recently we've lost what, you know, catching the ball is a legal catch anymore.
At least the NFL has. I think college still has it right in high school as a right. But it's a little bit confusing in the NFL anymore.

Yeah, I don't I don't even try to understand that one. I wait for the call on the field and then or from the box and, you know. Well, hopefully they're getting closer and closer to get it back to what it should be, what we all know is a catch and what isn't a catch.

And you just know it's not hard to describe, but you know, when somebody catches the ball. Yeah, it's, but, you know, that's kind of the tough thing for referees to have a basis for their rulings. And that's that's true.

Or officials, I should say. But yeah, it's a it's a difficult one to try to figure out. But, you know, so what's, you know, back to the just the pure pass interference thing.
It's just interesting that they kind of settled on something early on that, you know, has worked for one hundred and one hundred and ten years. And it's really, really pretty remarkable because there aren't that many rules where that has been the case. Yeah.

When you can have a bunch of football minds around the country and throughout the ages all agreeing on something, that is pretty remarkable. Well, Tim, that was another fascinating tidbit that you had recently. Now, folks would love to get their hands on your tidbits each and every day.

And maybe you could give them some information that you can share with them. Yeah. So, you know, I release the stories every day at seven o'clock Eastern.
And all you got to do if you're interested is go to footballarchaeology.com. There's an opportunity to subscribe on every page. And so you sign up and it's free. You get an email in your inbox at seven o'clock Eastern each night.

And so, you know, you can pile them up for the week or read them that minute, whichever you prefer. And if you're not, you know, if you don't want me invading your inbox, you can follow me on Twitter at footballarchaeology.com or not, or just footballarchaeology is my name there. Right.

OK. Well, Tim Brown, footballarchaeology.com. Thank you very much for joining us. And we will talk to you again next Tuesday.

Very good. Thank you, sir.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

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-Transcription of the 1905 Fairmont Experiment with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends; this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And welcome to Tuesday, Football Archaeology Day. As we go to FootballArchaeology.com's author, Timothy P. Brown.And Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Thank you.

Good to see you again. Looking forward to chatting. You have one of your most recent tidbits that you've dug up some real good football archaeology on this.

And just a great story from 1905 that I'd love to have you tell the audience about. Yeah. So, I mean, I think probably anybody that's listening knows that there were a lot of concerns, you know, leading up to and then in the 1905 season about injuries and deaths on the playing field.

And so, you know, there was just a lot of pressure to make some changes to the game. We had the whole Teddy Roosevelt thing. And then, you know, in the end, the guy who was the president or chancellor of NYU, he formed, he got people together to start really looking at this issue.

And, you know, so there were, the newspapers had all kinds of suggestions about possible rule changes. And, you know, there are people throwing out all kinds of ideas. And so, they kind of started talking about, you know, is there a way that we could experiment and have a test game? And, you know, there have been other times where that occurred.

Stag did some things, you know, this is about another five years down the road. And Hugo Bezdek, you know, did some testing. So, there are a couple of different instances of stuff like that.

But so, this one was, you know, while they were kind of looking for a game to be played, you know. Basically, the teams had disbanded for the year. But for some reason, the folks at Fairmont, which is now Wichita State, you know, in Wichita, they had been looking, you know, to maybe play a Christmas game just to kind of keep folks entertained and have some fun. And it turned out then that they agreed to play a test game against Washburn, which is a, you know, a state school in Kansas.

And so, you know, they were, and basically what they agreed to do was to try out some of the rules that were being proposed. And, you know, I don't know exactly how much interaction these guys had with folks back east, but the coaches of the two teams, Fairmont, were coached by a guy named Willis Bates, and Washburn was coached by John Outland. So, Bates had played at Dartmouth, and Outland had played at Penn, and, you know, he's the Outland trophy guy, right? So, so they were both, you know, they both had, you know, East Coast cred.

And the fact that they would play a game would be something that would be kind of, you know, trusted, you know, for want of a better term. So, and just one other odd thing about that year was that Fairmont, earlier in the year, had played a game at night. And it was played under, I think Coleman Lanterns is a local manufacturer somewhere in the Wichita area.

And so they lit, they had Coleman Gas Lanterns hanging all around the field and over the field. Maybe not, maybe not over the field. I think they had but it turned out to be kind of a mess because it just didn't put off enough light.

But anyway, it's just one of those early, early little factoids. Yeah. I never heard that before.

It's kind of interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, there were others that did electrical, you know, lighting before that, but they were the only ones I've ever heard of that tried to do, you know, gas lanterns. But we have the Zippo factories not too far from here. I wonder if they tried that bunch of Zippos lit up at the same time.

Or just have all the kids turn on their cell phones. So yeah. So anyway, they agreed to play a game on Christmas day.

And so they said, okay, we're going to allow the forward pass. We're going to require offenses to gain 10 yards rather than five and three downs. And then they also gave officials the authority to, you know, throw somebody out of the game if they, you know, for any kind of unnecessary roughness, which was, they didn't have that necessarily at the time.

So, you know, as it turned out, it turned into kind of a, the game was kind of a turd, frankly. It was like, it ended up in a zero, zero tie. Each of the teams threw some forward passes and completed two or three.

But we don't really know. I mean, all we really can operate off of these newspaper articles. So we don't really know how they threw the ball.

Right. And we just know they didn't do it very effectively. But the whole thing comes down to that they just couldn't imagine and think through how to change the game of football, how to approach it differently, given a new set of rules.

Right. And so it's just that idea that for us, we know the old spiral is to throw a football, but they didn't. You know, they tried all kinds of basketball and two-handed set shots.

They did shovel passes. They did, you know, you name it. You know, they tried, and they threw the football like a grenade, with a straight arm, you know.

And just if you think about it, how do you tell somebody to go out on a pass route when they've never seen a pass route before? Right. I mean, what do you do? You know, so these are the first guys trying to figure this stuff out. And they didn't do a very good job of it.

You know, and you can't really blame them. A lot of people struggled with it for about 10 years. You know, once the pass was legalized, there were some that got it, got after it right away, but most people didn't.

So, you know, and it turns out that, so one of their big conclusions was that, you know, because they really didn't adapt their offenses at all, they went from playing a game where they had three downs to getting five yards. Now, all of a sudden, they have three downs to get 10 yards. They didn't change their offense really.

So guess what? They didn't get many first-downs, right? And so they viewed that as a silly rule. Oh, it's never going to work. Well, it didn't work because they didn't reimagine the game.

And then, you know, find the tactics, find the techniques, you know, to do things differently. So anyways, I think it's really just the neatest part of the game in total is number one, that it failed, right? And that it, but it shows the difficulty of reimagining how to play this game under a new set of rules and why it took a while for that to occur. But, you know, they did their best.

They were willing to try it. And, you know, so, you know, good for them, right? Right. You know, I always found it kind of interesting, you know, hearing that story and, you know, the reason why they did it is to try to report back East to give them some information on, you know, it's an experimental game on some of these rules, but you never really see a whole lot, except for maybe years later, there was, I think one gentleman that was involved or was a spectator or something that had some information about it.

We don't know how accurate it was or anything, but there's nothing going back to, you know, to camp or to, you know, John C. Bell or any of those guys back East that tells what happened in this game, you know, what they tried. And I'm always surprised, maybe someday somebody will open up some notebook and, you know, in their great-grandparents' house or something and have some information. But I was finding that kind of fascinating.

Well, you know, you have to believe that there were at least personal letters exchanged. So, like, because, you know, both of these coaches were, you know, they were Eastern guys, you know, and they maintained their connections. So, there had to be something back and forth.

But yeah, I mean, as far as I know, I mean, there's no report to a committee and, you know, maybe it was because things were, there was so much turmoil at the time, you know, we'd had multiple rules committees in the late 1800s and now, you know, we're going between the IFA and, you know, whatever. And this whole thing that NYU is getting going will eventually become the NCAA. But yeah, you know, who knows? Yeah.

It's not like they picked up the telephone and called somebody very well. No, exactly. You know, and so, it had to be, you know, just the fact that they were even in touch.

Somehow, they got all this material. Now, the newspapers, you know, that was, you know, the wire services and that, that would have been one of the main ways for them to even learn what the potential rule changes are. But, you know, as this game got reported on, you know, if you look it up, I mean, you name it, any newspaper in the country, they did at least some kind of report on this test game.

So, you know, people were paying attention to it, but, you know, then it was forgotten pretty quickly. Right. So, it might be one of the original bowl games.

Of course, the Rose Bowl came out in 1902. So, I guess it wasn't the original holiday bowl game, but it was played right on Christmas day even, right? Yeah. Okay.

And so, one of the things that, you know, part of the reason I kind of, I did this particular tidbit was because I'd come across, you know, a real photo postcard of the 1906 Fairmont team, you know, online. I, you know, I ended up, you know, buying things because most people looked at it and said, I don't know who this is. Still, I knew who they were, you know, you know, so I basically was able to pick it up for a song, but, you know, and so, my best guess is, you know, that the vast majority of 1906 guys were on the 1905 team too. So, probably a number of the guys played in the game are in that picture, but, you know. Interesting.

I have a piece of history in my possession. Yeah. Well, that's a cool piece of history and, you know, we appreciate you sharing it with us each and every day on your tidbits.

And speaking of that, why don't you tell the listeners how they too can enjoy some of these great photographs and, you know, your website and where they can, you know, get a hold of the tidbits each and every day? Yeah. So, the site is, it's a sub-stack site, but I've got a, you know, personalized URL.

So, it's just footballarchaeology.com, and you can sign up there. If you sign up or subscribe, you'll get an email delivered to your inbox every night at seven o'clock Eastern, and then you can read it at your leisure. Yeah.

And so, you know, the only other thing I would just say is, you know, if you're, if you bookmark the site and you're trying to figure out something on football history, you know, there's got one of those little search magnifying glass things in there. So, put in a term, see if something pops up for you and there's probably a story or two in there. Yeah.

So, great stuff. All right. Well, appreciate you, Tim.

And we'll talk to you again next week. Darin, thank you very much. Look forward to it.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

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