Football History

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Time to have our friend Tim Brown join us today for some football archaeology on one of the great Heisman winners of the 1930s and his special season and special stature coming up in just a moment. Hello, my football friends.

-Transcription of Davey Obrien and Standing Tall with Timothy Brown

This is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history.

And as we try to do every Tuesday, we like to go on a little archaeological expedition. We go to the man on the website Football Archaeology, Timothy Brown. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey there. Thank you. Appreciate you having me again.
Looking forward to digging into a few things tonight. Digging is right. We were, you know, interested.

We were talking about this before we came on about one of your tidbits. You know, some of these, they're all stimulating, but some really catch my eye, and I'd love to hear a little bit more about them. This one came from later in October, and it's called Standing Call for the Heisman on October 23rd on FootballArchaeology.com. I was hoping maybe you could say a few words about that subject matter.

Yeah, you know, happy to. So, the Standing Call is, you know, basically about a guy named Davy O'Brien, who was a Heisman Trophy winner in 1938. But he was 5'7".
And, you know, so we all know, we all went to high school or grade school or whatever with some guy who was too short, but he was a heck of an athlete. And, you know, just the guy was a stud. But eventually, he kind of met his limits athletically, you know, in terms of competing against, you know, bigger players.

Even in high school, a lot of guys that size can get away with things. And here and there, we've got an NBA or an NFL player who does it. But back then, it was a little bit more common, you know.

And so, Davy O'Brien was, you know, like I said, 5'7", grew up in Dallas. And he succeeded Sammy Baugh as the quarterback or the center of the Dutch Meyers TPU spread office. So, you know, I mean, we like to think the spread is this brand new, shiny thing that all these smart, you know, modern people created.
But back in the 30s, in the late 30s, Dutch Meyers was running an offense that had two basic formations. One was had a single back, the double wing and two double split ends. You know, so just think about that.

A single back, double wings, and two split ends, right? So that looks like a lot of people's spreads nowadays. He also ran, he didn't call it this, but he ran an empty formation with trips on one side, you know, and split on the other. So, and he ran the ball, it's a lot.

So, I mean, run it especially out of the one-back formation. So, I mean, it's just the idea that these guys, TCU, were doing things well before anybody else in terms of just bringing modern spread horizontal concepts to football. So, you get this guy, Davey O'Brien, who takes over for Sammy Ball, who's got it, and, you know, it's back in single platoon football.

So, O'Brien played both ways. He wasn't just this little, you know, a dinky quarterback that, you know, just ran out and was protected against being tackled hard and stuff like that. You know, he was a player, he's a blocking back, he punted, you know, he was their primary punter.
And so, I'm going to say this next thing with a little bit of caution. As a senior, he set the passing yardage in a season record, NCAA record. He also set the combined rushing and passing by an individual in a season.

Now, that was a 1938 season, and the NCAA only started tracking statistics in 1937. So, you know, it wasn't, yeah, okay, you know, but nevertheless, I mean, the point really is that what he was doing so far ahead of almost anybody else, right? And so, and just one little side note to the statistics thing. The statistics weren't, you know, it was like the NCAA did this.

It was a separate guy named Herman Homer who created this entity called the American Football Statistical Bureau, and then in 22 years, they sold it to the NCAA. And so, all of the football records of the NCAA were actually, for the first 22 years, compiled by a separate company. You know, so his company started in 37.
And so, if you look at any NCAA record, they start in 1937, you know, from this guy's records. Anyways, Davey O'Brien was a stud. So, he finishes his senior year, winning a national championship.

He's the Maxwell and Heisman Trophy winner. He then gets drafted by the NFL; the Giants take him number four in the 39 draft. He leads the NFL in passing yardage as a rookie, though they only won one game, and comes back as a second-year player.

Again, has a great season. They only win one game. And then he says, I'm done.

And he quits pro football and becomes an FBI agent. And he does that for about 10 years and goes into various business adventures, you know. So, it's just kind of an interesting thing.

You know, there are very few NFL players who leave today to become FBI agents, right? Especially when you just led the league in passing. But, you know, different times, different places. Different pay scales.
Yeah, different pay scale, you know. Well, here's another thing about it. To that point, he was the fourth Heisman Trophy winner, but he was the first one to sign with the NFL.

The first three didn't even bother. Oh, that's right. Yeah.
You know, they were coming from the University of Chicago and two guys from Yale, and they were like, hey, I don't need this NFL thing. I've got better, you know, business opportunities. And so, you know, none of the first, you know, neither none, whatever of the first three played in the NFL.

Yeah, you really have to go back and really admire people that play professional football, especially those first, like, five or six decades, because they really did it for the love of the game and the love of the competition. They weren't getting rich by doing it. Most, you know, I think almost all of them had to have a regular job in the offseason and things like that.
And it's just an amazing thing to think about where today, you know, that's their whole life. And, you know, they're, they're set for life after playing a couple of years. And yeah, I would say, you know, they made significant money compared to the average worker, right? And for some of them, it was just like today.

I mean, I get into arguments. I got into a recent argument or spat with some CFL fans about the talent levels between the NFL and CFL. And, you know, the CFL has tremendous players. I mean, they're gifted athletes, but they're, in my mind, just not anywhere near NFL caliber.
I mean, yeah, some of them are bottom-end NFL players, and that's fine. But, the point is that even in the CFL, they can make more money playing as a 24, 25-year-old young man in the CFL compared to getting out of school and whatever, becoming an underwriter or, you know, whatever it is you do when you leave school, right? Now, if they were chemical engineering majors or something, yeah, they can make more money doing that. But, you know, not many of those are playing football.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a pretty good parallel.
You know, I didn't think that maybe not even the CFL, but maybe some of these, these other leagues that are coming up, you know, like the XFL and the spring league and now, now the USFL, some of those, you know, those guys aren't making much at all compared to their peers in the bigger leagues, you know, like the NFL and the CFL, but they're doing enough to make a living and get by. And you know, hopeful their hope is to advance into the NFL. And I'm sure that's probably the goal.
And I think that's it. It's the hope it's keeping the hope alive. Right.

And then there are kids who are probably more like D3 sort of kids, but you know, there are a decent number of American kids now heading over to Europe and playing. And, but it's more of a cultural experience, and they're not making big money. I mean, literally, they're making, I know one kid who played in the NF or in Europe last year, making like 800, a thousand bucks a game, but he got into an NFL camp this year, you know, and got cut, but you know, he made a camp.

And so, you know but, but I think for guys like that, it's more like, yeah, you got a chance to play in Austria or live in Finland for six months or something, you know, it's, it's a life experience rather than money, money grab, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely an interesting lifestyle.
And when you can do the thing you love and travel, Hey, why, why not do it when you're a young person? Any day, any day. Right. Good for them.

Good for them. I mean, I don't care what level you're playing, playing, if you're still taking a shot at it, have at it, you know? Absolutely. Yeah.

So good for you. Yeah. Love to hear that.

All right. Well, Tim, why don't we take this opportunity right now to, you know, just like this was a tidbit on Davey O'Brien, you have some very interesting things coming out each and every day, sometimes multiples in a day. And why don't you share with folks how they can get on your list to get this information? Yeah.

So, you know, my site is footballarchaeology.com. You can go on there and subscribe. And what that means is you'll get an email at seven o'clock every day. And then, some other days, you'll get more than one, but basically, you'll get at least a daily email that provides some information.

And if, if not there, then you can I mean, you can always visit the site just, you know, randomly, but you can also follow me on Twitter at football archaeology. And so whichever, however you consume information, however you prefer to view it, have at it. I'm more than happy to have people check it out.

All right. Well, Tim Brown, football archaeology. Thank you once again for joining us this week and talking about some more great football history and some of these great things from the past that may be overlooked, but we're glad that you're researching them and bringing them to our attention.

And we'd love to talk to you again next week. Very good. Look forward to it, sir.


Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

Art Poe was a 1969 inductee of the College Football Hall of Fame by the National Football Foundation. Poe was a member of the Princeton Tigers, had five famous gridiron brothers who were all the nephews of poet Edgar Allen Poe.

Art Poe was a standout football player for Princeton University in the late 19th century. Known for his exceptional athleticism and determination, Poe was a key figure in Princeton's dominance of college football during that era. Despite his relatively small stature, he possessed incredible speed and agility, making him a formidable force on the field.

Poe's impact on the game was significant. His clutch performances in rivalry games against Yale, including a game-winning drop kick, solidified his legendary status. His contributions to Princeton football earned him All-American honors and a place in the College Football Hall of Fame.

In the modern era of College football, the reward for a team at season's end is to make it to one of the big holiday bowl games and win it. Hoefully they are ranked high enough to be playing in the college playoff format for a National Title.

Timothy Brown of Football Archaeoloogy joined us in 2023 to tell the tale of the first team to win at least one of each of the "Major" Bowl games.

-Transcribed Conversation with Timothy Brown on the Georgia Tech Grand Slam

Hello, my football friend, Darin Hayes, of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to Tuesday at FootballArcheology.com. Timothy P. Brown joins us to talk about another one of his amazing tidbits on football history. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen.

Hey, Darin. Thank you. I look forward to chatting once again about old-time football.

Yeah, this podcast airs in December, and we're getting into the college football championships, the end of the season, and bowl games.

And that's what we're thinking about as far as college football. And you posted a very interesting story back in June about the Ramblin' Wreck of Georgia Tech. And we'd sure love to hear about this old-time football.

Yeah, so this story is, uh, you know, I called it the, um, I forget exactly what I called it. It was basically about Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech hits football's first Grand Slam, which is your title.

Yeah. So football's first Grand Slam. I knew the Grand Slam.

I didn't know exactly how I worded it, but I also want to point out that they hit the reason; well, part of the contribution to the Grand Slam was that they hit a rare triple as well. And the rare triple was the fact that Georgia Tech, I mean, had three absolute stud coaches right in a row. Those three coaches have handled the team for 63 combined years.

You know, it's just one of those, like, you know, how many, you know, I mean, like, if you just think about, try to think about other places that have had phenomenally, or just very successful coaches, uh, and to have three in a row, I mean, Notre Dame has had some great coaches, but a lot of them didn't really last that long. No, not 63 years between the three of them. Yeah.

I mean, you know, Ohio State and Michigan, and you know, I mean, there's a USC, I mean, name, and whoever you want. There just aren't too many. Maybe Oklahoma or Texas or somebody had, you know, but they've tended to have somebody that just wasn't great in between or didn't last that long. But here are the three for Georgia Tech, which started in 1904 and ran through 1919 with a 102-29-7 record.

So, John Heisman won 70, nearly 78% of his games. So, most football fans have heard of him. Um, he was followed by a guy who played there and then coached under Heisman named, you know, Bill Alexander, who, you know, isn't as, uh, didn't have as great a record.

He had some uneven seasons, but he also had just some absolute stud seasons. So he went 134 and 95 and 15, um, you know, for 0.585, you know, a record. And then he was followed by Bobby Dodd, who, you know, was an assistant under Alexander.

And so Bobby Dodd goes from 1945 to 1966, and he goes 165-64-8. So, for 0.721 percent. So, basically, those three guys from 1904 to 1966 are the three coaches of Georgia Tech, you know, it's just crazy.

So then during, um, so of the three, just from a pure record standpoint, Alexander is the least successful. And yet it was during his time that Georgia Tech, I mean, think about it. He's the least in terms of winning percentage.

And yet, during his time, he won, and they beat Cal in the 1939 Rose Bowl. He beat Missouri in the 1940 Orange Bowl. They lost to Texas in the 1943 Cotton Bowl.

And then they beat Tulsa in the 1944 Sugar Bowl. And so his grand slam was that they were the first team to play in the Rose, the Orange, the Cotton, and the Sugar, which were the four games until, I don't know, uh, 85 ish or something like when the Fiesta started, you know, being considered along those lines as a, you know, in terms of the top four bowl games. So, um, you know, so at the time that, you know, it was, people considered it a big deal that they were the first ones to play in all four.

Now, some teams didn't go to bowl games at all. And conferences that didn't go to bowl games at all. And, you know, they were able to do some things, maybe other teams couldn't, but I don't care what, you know, they were the first ones.

And so, you know, really an impressive feat. Just think about that. What are, I mean, you have to have many things fall into place to be invited to each of those particular bowl games because they're looking for certain criteria each year. You have to fall in that to get an invite first of all, and then to go and beat an opponent who is a worthy opponent that's, you know, looked upon as your equal because they're trying to get the best matchup they can in those games and, you know, and to win each of those.

I mean, that is quite a feat if you really sit there and think about it. Yeah. And I think, you know, these, you know, like last week's podcast, we talked about warriors.

And so this, you know, a couple of these wins occurred during war years. So, they probably chose Southern teams a bit more than they would have otherwise, just to reduce travel and, you know, easier access for their alums to attend the game. But again, make up any scenario you want.

They were still the first ones playing in a game, so it's a big deal. And, you know, they ended up. He stepped down after winning, or no; he then took Georgia Tech to the 45 Orange Bowl.

So he ran through those four, the four we already mentioned. Then he went to the Orange Bowl again in 45. And then he resigned after that.

And Bobby Dodd took over. He can stick it out three more years and try to get the double. Yeah.

Yeah. Hit everyone twice. Man.

Yeah. So, I mean, it is a pretty remarkable record. Alexander was also one of those guys who was just a pretty innovative guy.

I mean, some of the things he did now seem kind of goofy. I've written in the past about him using the reverse QB. And I think he may have used a side-saddle QB at times.

But, you know, the reverse QB took the ball, like had his butt against the center's butt, and then took the snap between his legs, and then tossed it, you know, to a single wing kind of formation, tossed it left or right or backward. But. Yeah, I remember our conversation.

We did a podcast on your side saddle, probably back a year ago. But I remember that. That's, man, that is fascinating.

So, going back 80 years ago, and just actually 100 years ago or more with Heisman, when you think about it, I mean, just a great program. And we don't think about Georgia Tech in that light anymore because there's sort of they're overshadowed by some of their fellow teams that are in that area, you know, Georgia, for one, who's phenomenal the last few years, especially. But you have to look back at some of these teams and give them credit because they had some really strong programs back in that day and the errors with, you know, those three coaches 60 some years.

Wow, that's a tip your hat off to the program directors there. Yeah. And I mean, they played in a lot of big games.

I mean, back in, you know, in the World War One era, you know, Pitt and Georgia Tech came a couple of really big, you know, games that they played kind of national championship consequences, you know, that kind of thing. And, you know, they played in the 29 Rose Bowl when, you know, the wrong way Regal ran, the tip California who picked up the ball ran the wrong way. And, you know, it ended up at the end of the day, which is the reason Georgia Tech won the game.

But, you know, so I mean, they were involved in some really, some really big games. And, you know, like you said, not quite as much anymore, but, you know, they still play at a very high level and, you know, great school, all that kind of stuff. Well, Tim, it always amazes me, the stories that you come up with, and you do this daily in your tidbits, just some, you know, maybe not the mainstream of what we think of mainstream football today, you know, very popular from 80 years ago, but, you know, some of these teams that probably should get more attention, like these Georgia Tech teams, and some of the elements that we discussed today with going to the four bowl games, but you're doing this daily.

Why don't you share with the audience how they, too, can participate in reading your daily tidbit? Yeah, so, you know, the easiest thing to do is just go to footballarchaeology.com. And, you know, at the end of every article, there's an opportunity to subscribe. Just hit the button to subscribe and sign up; it's free. And then every day, you'll get an email that, basically, seven o'clock Eastern, you'll get an email story.

Otherwise, you know, you can follow me. I'm still publishing on Twitter, threads, and the Substack app, or you can bookmark the site and show up whenever you want to. Yeah, and I must add that when you go into your Substack on footballarchaeology.com, on your Substack, and you go into the tidbit section, there's a nice little search function there. So if you want to look up, you know, anything else about, you know, coach Bobby Dodds on there, any other articles that you have them in there, it'll take you right to those and give you a nice listing.

You get a nice round, I guess, a full belly of what Bobby Dodds was to football. It's the footballarchaeology.com site. Tim, we really appreciate you coming on here and sharing this.

And we would love to talk to you again next Tuesday about some more great football. Very good. Look forward to it.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

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The American football playbook boasts an arsenal of throws, each designed to exploit specific defensive weaknesses. However, one unassuming play, the shovel pass, carves a unique niche. Unlike the glamorous deep ball or the precise drop pass, the shovel pass thrives in simplicity.

This post welcomes Timothy Brown of Football Archaeology as he delves into the murky origins of this deceptive play, exploring its evolution from a potential improvisation to a strategic weapon in the modern NFL. We'll examine the technical aspects of the shovel pass, its tactical advantages, and the impact it has had on the way offenses approach moving the ball downfield. Prepare to get down and dirty, as we uncover the surprising history and strategic power of the shovel pass.

You can find Tim's original Tidbit on this subject complete with images, at footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-slowing-the-pass-rush?utm_source=publication-search">ESlowing The Pass Rush With A Shovel.

-Transcription of Slow Pass Rush with a Shovel with Timothy Brown

Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to The Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another day where we get to visit with our friend Timothy P. Brown of FootballArcheology.com. Tim, welcome back to The Pig Pen. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. This is a good opportunity for us to go Dutch on this podcast. To go Dutch on this podcast.

Dutch Myer was the coach. Oh, okay. All right.

I had to think about that for a second. I thought, you know. Well, this shows that, you know, this is not rehearsed, right? Right, right.

You're name dropping already. I throw these singers out at you and you're like. Usually it's a dad joke segue into the title.

And the title, folks, and this is my confusion, is slowing the pass rush with a shovel. So I'm trying to think what Dutch, if he's doing a play on the word on ditch or, you know, I don't know. Dutch Meyer.

Dutch Meyer. Okay. Well, why don't you tell us a story about Dutch Meyer and what he has to do with the pass rush being slowed? Yeah.

So, I mean, this is, you know, I mean, nowadays we had a recent podcast about the draw play, which, you know, has, you know, is basically kind of shows up probably in the late thirties and then, but really became more commonplace. The draw play that we now know, probably more late forties, you know, kind of a play. And so this idea of, you know, but so the whole purpose of the draw play is to give the defense one look, you know, you're showing them pass when you're actually running it.

Well, before they develop the draw play, they still had the same need of trying to deceive the defense. And one of the ways that they developed best as I can tell, you know, around the early 32, 31, 32 kind of timeframe was the shovel pass. And so, you know, if you think about like a wing T formation at the time, they might've had a wing over on the, not wing T, I'm sorry, but you know, single wing.

They might've had a wing over on the right-hand side till back gets a deep snap, you know, from the center. And then the, the wing on the right-hand side crosses comes across the formation and the quarterback doesn't talk some kind of toss or flip, even a shovel pass to that guy as he's going right to left. So, so that was, you know, and it was one of those plays where, you know, as the defense is coming in, you're, you're, you're trying to get it to somebody who's crossing over just so that they have to be looking out is, is this a play that they're going to run? Right.

I mean, is this a, is this something I need to guard against? And so it was one of the, one of the ways to slow down the pass rush. And there weren't very many of them back then. There weren't very many ways to slow them down was to, was a shovel pass.

So in the 39 Cotton Bowl game, you know, this was a game where TCU had three players drafted the next year in the first 10 of the NFL draft. And, and what their, the number one pick in the draft was Davey O'Brien, who was TCU's quarterback. And you can see him in the background, but he was, you know, five, eight, you know, fairly stockly built guy, but, you know you know, he was a hell of a hell of a quarterback and just, you know, really smart guy, all that kind of thing.

So, so they were, you know, at the time TCU was one of the teams that threw the ball all over the yard, you know, now nothing like happens today, but you know, when they, they played Carnegie Tech in that game and you know, they, both teams rushed for about 150 yards, but TCU passed for on the order of 250, whereas Carnegie passed for like 60 or so yards. So it was one of those games where, you know, they just, TCU was clearly the better player, but, or the better team, but during the game, they threw eight shovel passes. Right.

So it kind of tells you, I mean, name a game nowadays where, where a team throws eight shovel passes, just doesn't happen, you know, doesn't happen. But for them, that was like one of their central plays because, you know, a lot of the other ways that we, you know, quarterbacks still had to throw the, in college, quarterbacks still had to be five yards behind the line of scrimmage to throw a pass. So none of our bubble screens and none of our quick, quick slants, none of those existed.

They were illegal. And so this was one way that they could slow down the pass was a shovel. So, so they completed five of the eight shovel passes.

And that was one of the ways in the second half, they advanced ball down the field. And because this is also in the days of, you know, essentially no or very limited substitutions. O'Brien, the quarterback kicks the game winning field goal in the fourth quarter.

Right. I mean, it's been a while, you know, since I remember a big time quarterback in a bowl game, kicking a field goal to win the game. Now, I mean, I don't know when the last time was, you know, when that happened, there were, there's been some punters like Greg Martin, you know, he's a guy that, you know, maybe some listeners remember he punted, but it's been, you know, Blanda probably was the last guy that most of us can think of though.

And yeah. But you had Doug Flutie do a drop kick one time, but it got no points. So I don't think it was more of a. Yeah.

I mean, that, that was basically a circus kick. Right. Right.

And which is fine, but you know, for a guy who did the regular kicking for his team, O'Brien was one of the last ones and he was, you know, place kicking, not, not drop kicking. So anyways, it's just, you know, I guess it's just one of those things where, you know, it's one of those period pieces where, you know, where they're using the shovel pass in a way that we don't use today, but make sense that they had developed it. And then the same guy who's throwing the shovel pass is a guy who kicks a game winning field goal.

So then he ends up, you know, he only played like two years in the NFL. He, he ended up, you know, I think he just didn't like the pro game very much. And he was on a really bad team.

And so he ended up, he left, uh, left the NFL and became an FBI agent. That's back in that era where you make more money, you know, working in a grocery store than playing in the NFL too. And you don't get hurt as much.

So, but yeah, the, the shovel pass. So that's, uh, you know, traditionally one of the safest passes to throw because it looks weird when it's an incomplete pass, but it's not a fumble because it's a forward pass if it's dropped and it's hard for defenders to see it because you're sort of hidden behind those, those big guys up front, uh, with the throwing actions. It's really not enunciated like, uh, an over the shoulder passes.

Yeah. The challenge is, you know, it's, it's hard to know now, like how much traffic there was coming in and coming at the quarterback as the guys crossing. Um, you know, I, I didn't find any game film of that particular game.

So, um, Gosh, you would think the defenders would start to get wise to it after a little while. So maybe they just were inept. And then it served its purpose, right? I mean, that's right.

It slowed down the pass rush if they got wise to it, but yeah. Um, or, you know, maybe they left some guy, guy to be a spy or something, but you know, they weren't that bright back then. No, no surprise, especially a Western Pennsylvania team.

God, Carnegie, you know, that's, they should be brilliant. Well, they lost. So yeah, no wonder they're, they don't have a D one program anymore.

Uh, interesting stuff, Tim. That's a, that's a great story. And to hear about Davey O'Brien and, uh, you know, some of his, uh, great feats of football.

So that's some cool things. So you have some very interesting things, not only about players like Davey O'Brien and teams like, you know, TCU and a concept of the shovel pass, but you have all kinds of different, uh, intricacies of the made football, the game that it is. And some are forgotten except by folks like you reminding us on your daily tidbits on your website.

So maybe you could share, uh, you know, where people can find, uh, your, your writings at. Sure. Just, uh, go to footballarchaeology.com. Um, you know, I've got a whole archive now, you know, about a thousand articles out there on different, different elements of the game.

And, uh, so I have added subscribe. If you want to get an email every time that I publish an article, otherwise follow me on Twitter, follow me on Substack or follow me on threads and, or just go out to the site whenever you feel like it. All right.

Well, excellent job as always, Tim, we really appreciate, uh, getting informed and educated on the, the arts of football from yesteryear. And we would love to hear more about it next week. And thanks for going Dutch.

Yeah. Thanks Dutch.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.

Step into the annals of American football history on July 23rd, a date marked by pivotal moments that have left an enduring impact on the sport. From historic signings to memorable games and influential decisions, July 23rd has witnessed events that resonate deeply with football enthusiasts and fans alike. It serves as a reminder of the sport's rich heritage and its evolution over the decades.

Join us as we embark on a journey through the significant events that have defined July 23rd in American football. From groundbreaking innovations in strategy to dramatic victories on the field, each story illuminates the passion and drama that make football such a beloved pastime. Whether you're passionate about the game's history or simply curious about its cultural significance, our exploration promises to uncover intriguing narratives and highlight the individuals who have shaped the sport's trajectory.

Stay tuned as we uncover the stories behind July 23rd's most memorable moments in American football history. Discover how these events have not only shaped the game itself but also captivated the hearts and minds of millions around the world. Join us in celebrating the heritage of football and exploring the impact of July 23rd on its enduring legacy.

On July 20, the gridiron community celebrates the birthdays of influential figures whose imprint on American football is etched in history. These individuals, enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame and College Football Hall of Fame, represent a spectrum of talent and dedication that has shaped the sport. From dynamic players whose athleticism redefined positions to astute coaches whose strategies revolutionized the game, July 20 is a day to honor their remarkable contributions. Their legacies resonate not just on the field but also in the hearts of fans worldwide, inspiring admiration and respect for their achievements.

Join us as we delve into the captivating journeys of these football icons. From unforgettable plays that ignited stadiums to championship victories that etched their names in glory, July 20 commemorates the enduring impact of their careers. Whether you're a fervent follower of the game or a curious newcomer, this day offers a chance to reflect on the passion and excellence that continue to drive American football forward. Don't miss out on celebrating these legends and their profound influence on the sport we cherish.

Benjamin "Doc" Roller carved a unique path in the early days of American football. While his professional football career was impressive, it served more as a springboard for his academic pursuits and, surprisingly, his professional wrestling career.

Image of George Hackenschmidt with Ben Roller, 1911 Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons

Roller's athletic prowess emerged early. Despite his relatively small stature, he excelled in football and track at DePauw University, becoming captain of both teams. This success paved the way for him to attend the University of Pennsylvania, where he continued to play football while funding his education through athletics.

Roller's professional football career spanned from 1898 to 1902. He played for several prominent teams, including the Pittsburgh Athletic Club and the Philadelphia Athletic Club. The highlight of this period was undoubtedly his participation in the early iterations of the "World Series of Football." He played in the championship game in both 1902 and 1903, showcasing his skills on the national stage.

However, football was not Roller's sole passion. He was also a dedicated student, graduating from the University of Pennsylvania's medical school with top honors. This academic achievement earned him the nickname "Doc," which would follow him throughout his life.

While some athletes might have focused solely on their medical career, Roller continued to be a man of many talents. He leveraged his athletic background to secure a professorship at the University of Washington, overseeing the university's athletic programs. This role allowed him to promote physical fitness and hygiene, two causes he deeply believed in.

Intriguingly, Roller's athletic pursuits took an unexpected turn. In 1904, he transitioned from the gridiron to the wrestling mat. His wrestling career spanned an impressive 27 years, and he earned the moniker "The Pride of Seattle." While details about his wrestling success are scarce, it's clear that his athletic prowess transcended the world of football.

Benjamin "Doc" Roller's story is a testament to the versatility of early 20th-century athletes. He thrived not only on the football field but also in the classroom and the wrestling ring. His life serves as a reminder that athletic talent can pave the way for success in various fields, both physical and academic.

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We have been aware of many alleged sports curses throughout sports. The Curse of the Bambino on the Red Sox, the Chicago Cubs Goat Curse, and more, but what about a curse on an entire city and its sports teams?

Football_Team_at_Buffalo_Bills_(26_September_2021)_JMG_1827_(51529431978).jpg">Image of the Washington Football Team at Buffalo Bills (26 September 2021) is Courtesy of All-Pro Reels from District of Columbia, USA via Wikimedia Commons

Greg Tranter recently released another great sports history book. This time, it is The Buffalo Sports Curse. Greg chats about the Bills with "WIde RIght" and "13 seconds" but also goes through some of the other Western New York sports teams, such as the Buffalo All-Americans and the "Staley Swindle," and more. The book is available through multiple outlets and one way is RIT Press The Buffalo Curse. Learn all about it and pick up your copy today.

Here is a link to get a copy of Greg's work: Buffalo Sports Curse Book.

-Transcribed Conversation with Greg Tranter on his Buffalo Sports Curse Book

Hello, my football friends; this is Darin Hayes of PigskinDispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history. And we are going to stare down that portal tonight and talk to our friend and historian, Greg Tranter, who is authored a few books on football. We've talked to him and Jeff Miller just recently about their book from last year called Relics about the Buffalo Bills and some of the memorabilia that they wrote about.

Well, Greg is back with another book called The Buffalo Sports Curse. Very interesting. Indeed.

Hi, Greg Tranter. Welcome back to the Pig Pen. Hey, thanks a lot, Darren.

Great to be back. Greg, you are staying extremely busy. You said you just had this book published with Jeff last year or earlier this year.

And now this book, and you're telling me you have a couple more books in progress. So you're a very busy guy. So, we appreciate you taking the time to come and talk with us tonight.

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate the opportunity. So maybe you could describe the Buffalo Sports Curse.

Now, that's something we've heard of curses of other teams, perhaps like the Chicago Cubs and the Boston Red Sox and some of those curses. But I've never really heard of the Buffalo Sports Curse. So maybe you can enlighten us a little bit about basically what this is.

So, yeah, the interesting part of the Buffalo Sports Curse is it's not one team. It affected every professional team in Buffalo in the four major sports of baseball, basketball, football, and hockey all the way back to 1901. So it's affected not only the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres that people are very familiar with, but also the Buffalo Federals from the Federal Baseball League back in 1914 and 15, the Buffalo All-Americans that were an original franchise in the National Football League, all the way through.

It even affected a few individuals, including superstars like O.J. Simpson and Baby Joe Macy, who is a boxer in Buffalo. So it's very expensive, much more so than the Chicago Cubs or the Boston Red Sox, because there were other teams in those cities that were winning championships. OK, so generally, these curses, especially the two we mentioned, we know that the Boston Red Sox curse was like the curse of the Bambino, supposedly because they sold the rights to Babe Ruth.

The Cubs, I believe, was the Billy Goat Tavern curse of somebody, a tavern owner brought a Billy Goat into one of the games. He asked to leave with his goat and he put a curse on a team and it lasted decades. So what's sort of the root of this curse in Buffalo? So three things happened in 1901 to create the curse.

One, President William McKinley was in Buffalo visiting the Pan-American Exposition and was assassinated in September of that year. Earlier in 1901, Buffalo was an original franchise in the American Baseball League that was just forming at the turn of the century. And what happened was they had paid their franchise fee, were told by President Ban Johnson, who was the president of the American League, that they were in the league.

At the last minute, Ban Johnson double-crossed Buffalo when he realized he needed a team in Boston to compete with the Boston Braves. So, he moved the Buffalo franchise to Boston. They became the Boston Americans.

In 1903, they won the first World Series. In 1907, they were renamed the Boston Red Sox. The third thing that happened in 1901 was that the owner of the Buffalo baseball team died of a heart attack at 53 years old.

And many people say he died of a broken heart because he wanted a major-league baseball team in Buffalo. So it was those three things in combination that happened in 1901 that started the curse. Huh.

Very interesting. So this is, you know, what, 121 years old, this curse? Yes. And no Buffalo team has won a universally recognized championship in any of the four major sports of baseball, basketball, football, and hockey.

The Buffalo Bills won two AFL championships in 64 and 65. But at that time, the AFL was considered inferior to the NFL. And so the Bills would not have been considered the professional football champion of the sport.

It would have been the NFL team. And other than those two, no team has won a universally recognized championship. And there's a cursed event on every team that's been a professional franchise in Buffalo in one of the four major sports.

Hmm. OK, so maybe you could describe some of those of all four sports. Sure.

And of course, of course, you know, everybody's pretty familiar, right, with Wide Right in Super Bowl 25, the Music City Miracle in the 1990 AFC Divisional Playoff in Tennessee, the no goal when Brett Hall scored the winning goal for the Stanley Cup, and his skate was in the crease, which, of course, was against league rules that year. And then even last year, the 13 seconds in Kansas City, where Buffalo was 13 seconds away from winning that playoff game and then hosting, they would have hosted the AFC championship game. So there are those that people are very familiar with.

But lots of people don't know that, for example, Buffalo had an original franchise in the American Professional Football Association, which, of course, was the forerunner of the NFL. And they had a team called the Buffalo All-Americans. And in 1920, they actually played for the championship in Buffalo, even though there wasn't really a championship game.

But they played Akron at the end of the season, and they had the two best records in the APFA. If Buffalo won that game, they would have been NFL champions. If they tied, Akron would win because it had had no losses.

Buffalo had won. And so, of course, they tied. So Akron won the championship.

What's worse is the following year, in 1921, Buffalo goes through what they thought was the regular season undefeated. And they were crowned champions, at least by the press. And then the owner, Frank McNeil, the owner of the Buffalo All-Americans, agreed to play what he thought were two exhibition games at the end of the season.

They beat the Akron Pros one day and the next day they played the Chicago Staley's and lost the game 10 to 7. At that point, George Halas, who was the owner of the Staley's, claimed that that game counted and that the Staley's should be champions because if you included those two games, the Staley's had a better winning percentage than Buffalo did. They were 9-1-1 and Buffalo was 9-1-2. And he also claimed that the Staley's won by more points.

They had won 10 to 7 earlier in the year. Buffalo had won by one point. So they had a point differential advantage.

So he basically went to the rest of the owners and lobbied to be champions of the league. And in the spring of the following year, the owners voted the Staley's NFL champions. It is now known as Staley's Swindle because of the back office maneuverings of George Halas, and McNeil, the Buffalo All-Americans owner, fought that decision for the rest of his life.

Up until all the way until 1961, and then his wife carried the banner after that until she died. But the Staley's are still considered NFL champions to this day. We had a discussion, I had Joe Ziemba on about a week ago, and we spoke with him about his book on Cardinals and the Bears that he wrote that was released recently and quite a bit about Halas in it.

And we talked a little bit about Halas, you know, sort of being, you know, did a lot of great things for the game, but he was sort of, you know, really jockeyed things for his team to try to gain an advantage for his team. And, you know, this Staley's Swindle being one of them and a couple of others that he did, I believe, Portsmouth and Green Bay, he sort of screwed them out of some championships and tried a couple of others, too, that Joe Carr and I believe dismissed and wouldn't let him do. But, yeah, that's a that's a pretty big one when you get a championship taken from you.

Well, and then and then he came back to haunt Buffalo years later with the All-American Football Conference. If you remember the AFC from 1946 to 49, Buffalo had a franchise in there. In that franchise, they were the. I think their attendance was the third-highest in the league.

They made the playoffs two years in a row, actually played a championship game against Cleveland and lost like everybody did. But when they went to merge, Buffalo had an opportunity to merge in if they got 100 percent of the votes of the owners. George Halas voted against it.

So he was still holding a grudge, you know, 20, what, 29 years later. How could he have a grudge? He got what he wanted the other times. Right.

Well, because McNeil fought for the rest of his life, he was mad. I see. And so Buffalo was left out of the NFL in 1950 when, you know, the Browns joined in the 49ers, you know, joined and so on.

Buffalo was left out. So, yeah, Halas comes back to haunt them later. And that's in the book, too.

And he vaulted the Colts into that. Yes. Right.

OK, so so, yeah, a lot of football is happening there. And you talked a little bit about the AFL championships, but the AFL is not quite ready to merge with the NFL. They were competition and sort of lesser competition.

And then you get into these, you know, some of the NFL seasons of the Bills. And there's some bad luck there like you talk about a few of them already. Well, yeah, I mean, even let's go back to the AFL.

So in, Buffalo won the championship in sixty-four and sixty-five, and then sixty-six became the first year of the Super Bowl. So, they actually have an opportunity to become universal champions. Right.

They win the AFL East Division. And they play Kansas City in the AFL championship game to go to Super Bowl one. And it's at home, and they're trailing near the end of the first half, 14 to seven.

Jack Kemp is playing quarterback and driving the Bills to the tying touchdown. They get inside the 20-yard line near the end of the half, and Kemp throws what looks to be a touchdown pass in the end zone. And the Bills receiver slips and falls down.

And Johnny Robinson steps in front of him, intercepts the pass, returns at 70 yards. It sets up a field goal at the end of the half. And instead of the game being tied 14 to 14, the Chiefs are up 17 to seven and they go on to win 31 to seven.

And the Bills are denied the opportunity to go to Super Bowl one. And actually a lot of people, a lot of football historians will tell you that the Bills actually were a better matchup for the Packers than the Chiefs were, because as you may or may not know, but Buffalo still holds the record for the most consecutive games, not allowing a rushing touchdown. And so they would have handled the Packers sweep.

And so, who knows? I mean, you know, it's all speculation of whether the Bills would have beaten them or not, but my guess is they would have given them a better game. But either way, they lost their opportunity to be the universal champions in 1967. And then you fast forward to the NFL.

Of course, there are the four Super Bowls. There's not only Super Bowl 25, you know, where, you know, Wide Right, which I don't know if you or if any of your listeners saw the 30 for 30 on the four falls of Buffalo by ESPN a few years ago, but running back Kenneth Davis theorized that the Army helicopters that were flying over actually kept Norwood's ball from curving in because his kicks always curved in. And that kick didn't.

And he surmises that it was because of the Army helicopters. But then, you know, you have Super Bowl 26, where Thurman Thomas, you know, loses his helmet before the game. On the second play of the game, the Bills had planned for a certain run that they thought they could break for a touchdown.

The play opened up exactly like they thought. But Kenneth Davis, who was his replacement, ran to the wrong hole. And so no big play, no touchdown because Thurman was on the bench.

You know, who knows? That changed the game. Maybe the Bills still lose. You know, then you go to Super Bowl 27 in the Rose Bowl, and Jim Kelly gets hurt.

The Bills turn the ball over nine times. Then you go to Super Bowl 28. The Bills are up 13 to six at the half.

They have the ball to start the second half. They get to midfield. Thurman Thomas fumbles.

James Washington returns it for a touchdown. Instead of the Bills going up 16 to six or 20 to six, it's now 13-13. And the Bills unraveled at that point.

And there are many more. I mean, I think there are about a dozen different Bills-specific situations in playoff games that they lost that were very controversial. You know, so there's definitely a lot of football in the book.

But it does cover all the sports, all four. Yeah, well, that's some things I didn't realize about the Bills, especially that 1966 AFL championship game. Very interesting.

Now, there's a saying here, you know, I don't live that far from Buffalo. I'm in Erie, so I'm halfway between Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo. And, you know, I'm a Steelers fan, and the Bills just cleaned our clocks a couple of weeks ago.

Worse loss than the Tomlin era. But there's sort of been a joke that's gone around by Steelers fans, you know, talking about the Browns and the Bills about if you're and you want to date a girl and you don't really want to get married, you date a girl that's a Bills fan because she's patient about getting a ring. There's some humor in there, but.

Yes, 120 years, 120 years of waiting. I had to throw that in there because it sort of fit in. Now, OK, now take it, take a side, you know, being a Bills fan, because last year, the 2021 divisional playoff game against Kansas City, the 13 seconds had to be, you know, crushing, make you sick to your stomach as a Bills fan.

But as a football fan, I know it's hard to do; if you could peel back those layers of your love for your team, it had to be probably the greatest football game that was ever played at maybe any level because that was tremendous watching that last two minutes of the game. Yeah, no, I mean, it was. It's the only game in NFL history in which two teams scored 25 points in the last two minutes of regulation. I mean, you know, you saw it, and you saw it again this past Sunday.

Mahomes and Allen are quarterbacks who do things that other players just can't do. And, you know, you think you got him tackled. Do you think you got him hemmed in?

And then all of a sudden, well, there's a 20-yard play. And it's like, how does that happen? I thought we had him stopped. And it happened in that last two minutes last year.

It happened on both sides of the ball, right? It was like, you know, I mean, Tyree Kill goes for, you know, 70 yards. And then, you know, and then the Bills come right back and drive down the length of the field and score with 13 seconds left. And you're sitting there going, OK, I feel pretty comfortable.

There's only 13 seconds left. And they get 45 yards in two plays. Intense, you know, so I mean, and I think everybody that was watching that game wanted the Bills to get the ball in overtime, you know, to match them, right? Definitely.

I mean, to the point that the league changed the rule because everybody watching on TV was like, no, Allen deserves a shot to respond. Yeah, it was kind of interesting. My wife and I were supposed to be at a family member's for dinner and going to watch the second game.

I believe Tampa and the Rams were the next game, which was also a great game. So we were trying to make our travel plans. I tried to make my travel plans.

I tried to get them to time their dinner so I could get done with one game and go the other. So I kept telling my wife. I think I told her four times in the last two minutes.

Oh, this game's over, you know, Kansas City just scored. Oh, no, Buffalo just scored. This game's over.

And it's just kept the other team coming back. And unbelievable. That was edge-of-your-seat football there.

That was great. Yes. No, and see, I played into the curse.

I jinxed them because when they scored when the Bills scored with 13 seconds left, I turned to my wife, and I went, oh, my God, we're going to win. I'll never do that again. Right.

Yeah, that's extremely interesting. So that's so maybe this year, maybe this is the year that the curse can be broken. You know, you just had a Buffalo in a close game, but they overcame Kansas City at Kansas City.

Of course, they did last year during the regular season, I believe, too. But it's got to be a confidence booster knowing that you can go toe-to-toe with, you know, the great Andy Reed, Patrick Mahomes, and Kansas City Chiefs. And you've proven it, you know, three times in the last two years that you can take them right down to the final seconds.

And in their stadium, which is loud, noisy, and a difficult place to play. As I've said to a bunch of my friends this week, I said, I want Patrick Mahomes to come to Orchard Park in January. Let's see how he does with Bill's Mafia, the 20-mile-hour winds, and the freezing cold temperatures.

And let's see how comfortable he is. And those, you know, because the amazing part about the Chiefs is Mahomes has never played a road playoff game, right? He's always played at home. OK, come to Buffalo.

But, you know, fitting into that now, I believe the announcers on Sunday's game said that next year, Buffalo has to travel to Kansas City again. And I'm thinking, how can that game be at Kansas City every single year? You think you'd get one in Buffalo at one time, right? I know because because I mean, Alan's what they've played now, I think, five or six times. And only one of them has been in Buffalo, a regular season game during the pandemic when there were no fans allowed.

Come on. So that's even more advantageous because he's never experienced. Mahomes has never experienced a game with fans in Orchard Park.

It's very reminiscent. I think a similar thing with the Steelers and Patriots, you know, the Brady Roethlisberger years, it seemed like every year the Steelers would have to travel to Boston to play, except for one year. And that was the Jesse James controversy at the end of the game when the Patriots beat him in Pittsburgh.

But it was very, very similar. One team just gets all the home games during the regular season. I don't understand that.

So I know it's frustrating. OK, so I'm sorry. So tell us a little bit more about the curse with as far as your book.

And well, I guess, first of all, let's let's tell people where they can get the book. Yeah, so the book is available in many, many locations. But RIT Press published the book.

And so it's available on their website, which is www.rit.edu slash press slash Buffalo hyphen curse sports curse. So they can get it there. It will be available on Amazon right now if you go on Amazon because the book will officially be released next Monday.

And we have a kickoff at the Buffalo History Museum at six o'clock next Monday night. And I'll be giving a talk, you know, somewhat similar to this, you know, telling some of the stories that are in the book. So this will be Monday, October 24th and Monday, October 24th.

And folks, we were pre-recording this. So this is being released on the 24th. So don't be confused here.

Yeah. And then, of course, it'll be in all the local bookstores, Barnes and Noble, around Western New York. But online, either RIT or Amazon should should do the trick.

And the book, the way the book is structured, it's structured into 18 chapters that highlight different because it's it's kind of a combination history book curse book. So there's 32 cursed events that I talk about in the book. But I also give historical information about the teams leading up to the curse.

So you learn about, you know, the Buffalo All-Americans of the APFA. You learn about the Buffalo Federals that were in the Federal Baseball League in 1914 and 15. You learn about the Buffalo Braves basketball team in the 70s.

So you get some history along with it. And then it plays into, oh, and then here's the curse that occurred that affected the team and affected their ability to win a championship. Oh, very interesting.

Get a little bit of sports history, along with some of the controversial hypotheticals. And that's kind of interesting. Oh, sorry.

It also covers franchises that never came into being, but almost it. And then it also covers two individuals. It covers OJ Simpson and his fall from grace.

He's probably, you know, and again, a lot of people this day and age don't remember that OJ Simpson when he came out of USC, was not only considered the best player at the time, he was considered the greatest running back in college football history at that point in time. He was, and though the Bills never won a Super Bowl, obviously, he broke all kinds of records. And I would argue, you know, the murders occur, and his fall from grace is probably the greatest fall from grace of any athlete in American professional sports history.

Wow. Yeah, I didn't even think about that aspect. You're right.

That's quite a Buffalo connection, too. Very, very interesting. And we lost it, right? I mean, we lost it because, you know, he's a pariah now to a great degree.

Right. Yeah. You sort of lost that iconic figure in your history.

Before the great Bills teams of the nineties, he was probably the face of the franchise. Yeah. And he was beloved in Buffalo, for sure.

But I mean, even nationally. Wow. Very interesting.

Great storyline. I mean, I'm glad you wrote those books. That's very intriguing.

Greg described where you can get it. If you're driving or don't have a writing utensil, we will have as many links as we can in the show notes of this podcast. So you can get information and links, right?

To get connected to Greg's book of the Buffalo sports curse. And, you know, hopefully, you know, get these things out while they're hot here. Probably make some great gifts for the holidays, for the sports fans in your life.

I'm sure. And, you know, some great reading. Very interesting.

So, so Greg, you know, you've got a couple other projects coming up. I don't know if you want to discuss them or just leave them for now, not jinx them or. No, no, no, no.

I have two books that hopefully we'll publish next fall. One is a football book, which is a timeline of the history of the bills. So we're basically creating a book that takes about 150 Bill's stories and puts them on a timeline with photos from the birth of the franchise right up through this season.

And we call them vignettes because there'll be 350 to 500 word stories about significant things that happened in Bill's history. And they'll be basically through the book in sequence of the time when they occurred. And I'm doing that with a company called Reedy Press.

They did one book about the Chiefs a couple of years ago. And so we're doing one on the bills, and that'll be published next fall. Um, and then I'm also doing a basketball book on the Buffalo Braves basketball team that today is the LA Clippers, but they were in Buffalo from 1970, 1978 and had superstars like Bob McAdoo, Ernie DeGregorio, Randy Smith, where they're like big name players.

And they're in the curse book, too. They have a couple of cursed events to go along with that franchise. But that will be more of a total history book.

And I've also, we've also written biographies on every player that played for the team. There were 83 players that played and we've written a biography on every person. And that one, I'm collaborating with a guy named Bud Bailey, who's a Buffalonian, who's a former sports reporter for the Buffalo news.

Wow. You are a busy guy. I hope you get these books done and out to the publisher quickly.

So you can get a little bit of sleep here. You gotta be going 24 seven to do all that. Wow.

All fun, though. All that I love doing. So, well, Greg, why don't you give us the title of your book again? Once again, it's the best place to get it.

And, uh, you know, before. All right. It's called the Buffalo sports curse.

One hundred twenty years of pain, disappointment, heartbreak, and eternal optimism. So that's the full title of the book. It's available at RIT press, which is www.rit.edu slash press.

And the book will be there. You can also get it on Amazon or at any of the local bookstores around Western New York, which will be available. So, it will officially be released on October 24th, but you can order it today.

All right. Well, Greg Tranter, historian, author, collector. Thank you very much for coming on here and sharing the story of this great book and for writing this book and sharing this, the great stories contained in it of the Buffalo curse.

And, uh, appreciate your time. All right, Darin. Thank you.

Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai.