At the helm of this formidable ship stood a young Texan named Roger Staubach. A natural leader with an infectious enthusiasm, Staubach possessed a rare combination of athleticism and intellect. He grasped the intricacies of the option offense.

Staubach thrived under this system, his pinpoint passing and elusive running carving up defenses with surgical precision.

Staubach's Heisman Trophy-winning season was a masterclass in offensive execution. He threw for 1,829 yards and 16 touchdowns while adding 415 rushing yards and 6 more scores on the ground. His leadership extended beyond the field, inspiring his teammates with his unwavering work ethic and unwavering dedication to the Navy ideal.

But Staubach was far from a lone star. The 1963 Navy team was a symphony of talent, each player a vital cog in the well-oiled machine. Running back Eddie Hart's punishing carries kept defenses honest, while the receiving corps, led by the sure-handed Joe Bellino, provided Staubach with a reliable set of targets. The offensive line, a wall of blue and gold, provided the bedrock upon which the team's success was built.

The 1963 season was a rollercoaster ride of emotions for the Navy faithful. The Midshipmen opened with a dominant victory over West Virginia, followed by a hard-fought win over a talented William & Mary squad. Then came the defining moments: a thrilling upset of Notre Dame, a dominant victory over Army in the annual grudge match, and a nail-biting win over Pittsburgh.

But amidst the triumphs, there was heartbreak. A late-season loss to Syracuse, coupled with a controversial victory by Texas over Alabama, denied Navy a shot at the national championship. However, the Midshipmen received an invitation to the Cotton Bowl Classic, where they faced the mighty Longhorns.

The Cotton Bowl was a classic battle of wills. Staubach threw for two touchdowns, but Texas ultimately prevailed, 28-6. Despite the defeat, the 1963 Navy team left an indelible mark on college football. They finished the season ranked No. 2 in the nation, earning the respect of their peers and solidifying their place as one of the greatest teams in Navy history.

Transcript of Roger Staubach and the 1963 NAVY Team with Len Ferman and Giffer

Darin Hayes
Hello, my football friends. This is Darin Hayes of pigskindispatch.com. Welcome once again to the Pigpen, your portal to positive football history, and welcome to another trip back in time. And what do you need to go back in time? You need to have a friend on your Rolodex that's a time traveler, and we have that. Our good friend, Len Ferman, the sports time traveler, joins us once again to talk about a really special team from the Gridiron history. Len, welcome back to the Pigpen.

Len Ferman
Thank you so much, Darin, for having me back again. I really enjoyed each other the first time.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. And Len, you got some help today. You brought your muscle with you to talk about this team and, you know, an expert to have two experts on here telling me about this great story. And I'll let you introduce our special guest. Thank you.

Len Ferman
Well, first let me describe what I do. So I call myself the sports time traveler. It's kind of tongue in cheek. I go back in time virtually through newspaper archives and videos and experience great sporting events from the past as if they're happening now. I typically go back exactly 50 or 60 years. And Greg is one of my oldest friends and one of my biggest readers. And he told me early in the fall, Lynn, you got to go back to 1963. It's exactly, it'll be exactly 60 years ago and follow the Navy football team from 1963. It's going to be a really special year. So I was really excited to do that. And especially because it was Greg's, my friend's suggestion. And Greg's got a big tie into the Navy. Greg, do you want to introduce yourself and tell us about your experience?

Greg McGifney
Yeah. Hello, everybody. I'm Greg McGifney. I graduated from the Naval Academy in 1985. And I grew up, basically, with Navy football, that was my favorite football team for a lot of reasons. One, just, you got to pick a team back there. And there's only one college game on any given Saturday. So Navy was on a lot. And, you know, I just kind of fell in love with the Navy team. And, you know, there was a tie in too, because during the 1970s, you might remember a guy named Roger Staubach, who played football for the Dallas Cowboys. And but he was a Naval Academy graduate Heisman Trophy winner. And he was kind of a legendary Navy football player. And so with with all that said, I, I just follow Navy football, love Navy football as a kid. And then that kind of made me I said, you know, I want to go to Naval Academy, because that's, that's a great football tradition, great team. You know, I, I want to be part of this, you know, I want to be part of the Navy tradition, I had no idea what I was getting into, but I just said, you know, I want to do that. And eventually I applied and got in after, you know, really thinking about how you what you have to do. But time it was like, oh, Navy football, they play Notre Dame, they play Army, they're on TV. You know, this is great. And it's, and everybody's, you know, yelling and screaming and having a great time at these games. So it's, it's just one of those things you want to be part of, I guess, growing up picks a team. And I think a lot of maybe young kids pick colleges because of who they like in football in college, I don't know. But at the time, that's what I did. So that's my story. And I'm sticking to it.

Darin Hayes
But, well, Greg, we certainly welcome you to the Pigpen and thank you very much for your service and for all those out there listening that have served our country and protected our freedom. We really thank you for that. And this really puts an interesting twist on it. I love that we have a Navy guy talking about a Navy team here with a sports time traveler and here in Pixie and Dispatch. So I'm gonna hand the reins over to Len to sort of narrate us through the story of this 1963 Navy team. And of course, we'll get the expert analysis by Greg here to share it. And I'll have some questions along the way. So let's start this journey back to 1963.

Len Ferman
So I started following the 1963 Navy team. I didn't know much about them. I was really interested and surprised when I found out they had Roger Staubach and it was his junior year. Everybody knows Staubach from the Cowboys, but as Greg pointed out, he played for Navy and I didn't realize that. And the year before in 1962, Staubach's sophomore year, they were just a so -so team. They were only five and five, so there wasn't really high expectations. But they started out the season with two big victories over marginal teams, but then their third game of the season, they go into Michigan and they beat Michigan pretty badly. And so that was an indication there might be something special going on. And Staubach was brilliant. The Navy coach, the Michigan coach, Bump Elliott, who had been an all -American player himself, said after that game, he thought Staubach was the best football player he'd ever seen. So Staubach is starting to get some real national attention. Their fourth game, very interesting for later in our story, they go to the Cotton Bowl in Dallas to play SMU. And they lose that game 32 to 28, but they lose the game when on the last play of the game, Staubach, Staubach had driven them something like seven or 80 yards in the last couple of minutes. And on the last play of the game, he throws into the end zone. And the wide receiver in the newspaper archives, I've read several accounts, either dropped the ball or juggled the ball and it dropped, but whatever it is, he dropped the ball in the end zone. If he catches the ball as time's running out, they will win the game. They would have been 4 -0. But then the next week, they beat VMI, they go to 4 -1 and then they play Pitt. And this is a big game, it's at Navy and they have the largest crowd in the history of the stadium there. Pitt is ranked number three in the country at that time. Navy after their 4 -1 start is now ranked 10th and they destroy Pitt. And that really puts them on the map. Suddenly now they're recognized by Sports Illustrated as the top team in the East and they get up to fourth in the rankings. And then they go into Notre Dame. And even though Notre Dame's not the greatest team, it's still pretty daunting to go into Notre Dame. And Notre Dame had already beaten USC and UCLA at home and Navy is able to manhandle Notre Dame. So they're really onto a very special season and Staubach is getting incredible press. In fact, I wanna read something that I found in the New York Times about Staubach. So Alison Danzig, you may have heard that name. He was a great sports writer for the New York Times for over 40 years. He was covering football in the 1920s. And so he writes about Staubach after the Notre Dame game. His unruffled toys before the rush of the enemy lineman, the cleverness with which he casually evades their fierce embrace and the discernment with which he had long last finds his receivers or picks up blockers have baffled opponents and amazed onlookers game after game. He has a law unto himself and he has been given a latitude in doing the unorthodox that has seldom permitted a player. I mean, this is really, it's really incredible stuff and if you ever get a chance to watch videos of Staubach playing in 1963, it's true to what Danzig says. He clearly is doing things you don't expect to see quarterbacks do. The way he evades rushers and is able to hit his wide receivers and he's also a big threat in rushing as well. And so he's having this incredibly special season. But if I could interject here real quick. Go ahead.

Darin Hayes
Yeah on your sports time traveler your blog post and we'll put the links to that in the show notes of this podcast Len has an embed of one of the games I believe it's the the Texas game you have video of on YouTube that you can watch the game so you can see some Stawback and his teammates, you know, just how special these guys were. So I'm sorry, but please continue

Len Ferman
Yeah, you can see actually the entire Army -Navy game, which we're going to get to in a minute. And you can see extended clips of the when they played Texas. But so along the way, they keep winning. They keep rising in the rankings. They make it to number two. And by mid -November, it becomes very apparent that there's nothing in the way of Navy not making it to a showdown in the Cotton Bowl with number one Texas, which is Texas is undefeated. The only thing that could possibly be in their way would be Army. And so this brings us to around the third week in November. And I want to give Greg a chance to talk. So Greg, do you want to tell us what happens in the third week in November 1963?

Greg McGifney
Well, if you remember history at all, and you remember the times we were in in the early 1960s, president was JFK, and he went to Dallas, as you call it, the third week of November, excuse me, in 1963, and he was very much involved in, let's say, local Texas politics, as well as having a lot of Texans around him, so to speak, John Connolly and LBJ, of course. So, as you remember, he went down to Texas at that time, and unfortunately, we know what happened with his assassination. It was a terrible time for the country, and whether or not you were a fan of Kennedy or his politics or anything else, the country was stunned. He was an innovative leader. He got us through the missile crisis, and he was basically looking at the 1964 election and for reelection, and he's collecting receipts, so to speak, and trying to build his popularity and everything else. So, that shock hit the world, and of course, right after that was supposed to be, what, the Army -Navy game, and it usually was played at the end of November. And so, most of the world in football leagues and everybody else except for one league, I will not name that league necessarily, but one league played their games that weekend, but colleges mostly and another professional league did not play games. They took the week off to mourn because there was a special day of mourning that the next day after the weekend, and it goes on from there. So, the Army -Navy game was postponed. Navy had a break, Army had a break, and so Army being still a good team and a legacy from the 50s, you remember the Pete Dawkins team and everything else, they were a big -time team in the 50s, and there off they go to play Army -Navy, a very big game. Army could have set Navy. Army's ranking was, I think, top 10 at the time. If not, they were close to it, and they were a very, very good team. And as you might not know, or people might not know, JFK, although he went to Harvard, remember, and growing up, I remember, PT -109. JFK was a naval hero. PT -109, he went through that, and that was people's mind, people knew that. Oh yeah, Kennedy was a World War II hero, a legitimate hero, a Navy guy. And I guess JFK probably adopted Navy as his football team because he went to a lot of important Navy games, including what the Orange Bowl, Joe Bellino played that game, and then he went to Army -Navy games as president. He was always there. He made it a point to be there. And he was probably Navy's biggest presidential football fan. I mean, remember Ike Eisenhower? He was an Army guy. He was a West Point guy. So in the 50s, there was Ike and West Point. Now in the 60s, you had Navy and Kennedy. It's kind of a neat, neat thing, but Kennedy really was a big Navy football fan, and not many people know that. This year, they played the game, actually, the 60th anniversary in Massachusetts, and not a worry about Kennedy, which boggled my mind, but still, it was a big deal, and a big deal to me, because I knew how much Kennedy was a football fan for Navy, and it was very meaningful. And so it goes, but the game ended up being played on December 7th, later that year in Philadelphia at the Old Memorial Stadium. And so that game was played on Pearl Harbor Day, and Pearl Harbor was still, it was a big thing back then, and so on. And it was, I guess, the only game going at that time, and it was, I guess it was Nashville, I guess it was a big deal, and everybody's watching it, and there's 100 ,000 people there, and there's JFK, or would've been JFK, except his memory, and the whole country was still mourning. So anyway, that game happened, and then, Len, you can tell them, why don't you tell the world about what happened in that game, because that was one of the best games and best stories of Navy football in probably that day.

Len Ferman
Yeah, I'll talk about the game itself in a minute, but I just want to reinforce some of the things Greg was saying about JFK being a huge Navy fan. This is one of the things, this is kind of the key part of the story that I wanted to make sure we get through, we describe here because it was something I didn't know. And the tie -in between JFK and the Navy team here is really something special. He was a really diehard Navy football fan. As Greg mentioned, when he was president -elect in 1961, he made it a point to go to the Orange Bowl game to root for Navy. And he was there in Philadelphia at the Army Navy game in 61 and 62, and he made it known he was very much looking forward to go into this Army Navy game that was supposed to be played on November 30th. He even had a plan that he was going to sit on the, he recognized as commander in chief, he has to look at least a little impartial. So his plan was he was going to sit on the Army side in the first half and the Navy side in the second half, and he wanted it, and he planned it out that way because he wanted to be on the Navy side when they won the game. And he knew as being a big football fan in general, his whole family was always a football fans. Being a big football fan in general, he obviously knew that if Navy won the game, they were going to get invited to the Cotton Bowl. Texas was the top team in the country. They had already finished an undefeated season, and Texas was going to the Cotton Bowl as number one. And if Navy won, they were gonna get the invite and be there as the number two team. Now the interesting thing is that up to this point in college football history, only one other time has a number one and number two team met in a postseason ball game. So this was gonna be a really special game. And some evidence that JFK was planning on, kind of knew this and was planning around it is I just uncovered, as I was writing my article about the Cotton Bowl game last week, that when Kennedy was in Dallas on November 22nd, the plan, the open air motor, Katie was in, they were going to the Dallas trademark. He was gonna be delivering a speech. As soon as that speech was over, he was going back to the airport. Air Force One was gonna fly him to Austin. And in Austin, he was planning to go see the University of Texas football practice. He was gonna be at their practice. That practice never took place. It was canceled, obviously. And he even had a joke prepared in his speech there where he says something to the extent we all would like to see a Navy Texas game. And if I can do something about it, I will, but I know you guys don't like a lot of federal intervention. So that was his little joke he was going to make in Austin that day. So that's kind of proof to me that he was really following this. He was definitely going to the Army Navy game. And he was looking forward to that win so he could go to the Cotton Bowl game. So this really got to me that JFK had this such passion for football and wanted to go see these games. Now the Army and Navy game, it turned out to be a great game. It was a classic case of powerhouse offense versus great defense. Army had a great defense. And Army took the lead, seven to nothing. Then Stawback did his magic. And with 10 minutes to go in the game, Navy's up 21 -7. And then something strange happened. Navy never got the ball back. Army comes down and scores. And they make a two -point conversion. And now it's 21 -15 with six minutes to go. Now Army's quarterback was a guy named Stickwa. And they also, as a lot of players did back in those days, as you know, Darren, they played on more than just one team. So Stickwa also played special teams. And so Army kicks off. Stickwa was there on special teams. Stickwa recovers the onside kick. So Army gets the ball back. And then with six minutes to go, he drives them down. He drives them downfield with a minute 37 to go. They've got first and goal on the Navy seven. So they had driven for a touchdown already. They're driving down again. It looks like nothing's gonna be able to stop them. And then Navy, they get about a couple of yards on second down. They get, I mean, they get a couple of yards on first down, they get a couple of yards on second down. Now it's third and three. And an army has no timeouts left. But the crowd, and I can't really imagine this, it's an open -air stadium. The old, what I heard, what was called JFK Stadium when I was growing up, it's not JFK Stadium yet at that point, it's just Philadelphia Stadium or Memorial Stadium. There's 102 ,000 people there. It's so loud that Stikwa, the army players can't hear Stikwa's call. So this is something kind of incredible -sounding to me. But at that time, and I don't know if it's still in place, there was a rule that if the crowd was so loud that the quarterback signals couldn't be heard by his own players that he could call an official time. He could turn to the official and call time. And he does this a couple of times. He does it on second down. And then he tries to do it again on third down. But what he doesn't realize, what Stikwa doesn't realize apparently, is yes, they're gonna give him this official time to momentarily stop the game. But then they're gonna start the clock again. And so unbeknownst to Stikwa, the clock starts again and time runs out. Time runs out on third and goal. And army didn't get another play. So Navy barely escaped, but they won the game. They retained their number two ranking and they were invited to the Cotton Bowl.

Darin Hayes
Wow. And they're probably wiping their brows, uh, all the sweat off their brows, all the fans, cause that's gotta be an edge of your seat moment. Those, uh, last six minutes. I mean, it's amazing. I mean, so they recover the onside kick and there's six minutes left and they tick off four and a half minutes and go what, 40 yards. That's incredible there. There must've been some, a bunch of two yard gains or something the whole way down there. Thank you.

Len Ferman
Well, they were mostly a running team. So, yeah, so they were just grinding out yardage and Navy wasn't able to stop them.

Greg McGifney
That's the old four minute offense. You're trying to run the clock out. You see a lot of all of a sudden NFL teams right on Sunday. They're they're winning and all of a sudden. Hey, we're we're going to run the clock out, right? We're going to try to get first downs and matriculate the ball down. Feel kind of very slowly and succinctly and not throw a lot of passes. So that's that was the strategy and it probably would have worked or should have worked if you had. You had some crowd stuff and the you know the 12th man showed up and definitely helped maybe team this time around.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. And, uh, Linda answer your question. I think that rule is still in place. And if you think back like 15, 20 years ago, there were NFL teams that were trying to do that, but the quarterbacks were finding, yeah, they got the pause and the officials would stop the game. Uh, not only with the clock restart, but the crowd would say, Hey, this is bugging that QB let's get louder and let's really get in his face. So I think they just sort of ignore it and they go to the silent counts, uh, to get by that, but, uh, yeah, great, great story though, uh, guys. That's a really puts me back into the moment there. And I really appreciate that. Yeah, go ahead and continue with our 1963 story of Navy.

Len Ferman
Yeah, so then they they've got three weeks to get ready for the Cotton Bowl game, which is on New Year's Day. And, and the irony of this is that the Cotton Bowl obviously is in Dallas. So, so here JFK, it's pretty certain he would have gone to Dallas six weeks after his first visit to Dallas, he would have gone back there to watch the Cotton Bowl game. It's pretty much a certainty. In fact, the reason I'm so certain is I had this hypothesis. And then I came across a book that's all about the 1963 Navy Army Navy game, and JFK. So a guy named Michael Connolly, who writes a lot of sports, great sports books, he wrote a book just about that game, and the time with JFK, the Army Navy game. So I contact I was able to contact him. And I said, Do you think JFK I think JFK would have gone to the Cotton Bowl? What do you think he said he definitely would have gone to the Cotton Bowl game. And, and he pointed out that the whole rivalry with LBJ LBJ, Lynn Baines Johnson was, was from Texas. So he was his Kennedy's vice president. So you know, that was another contributing factor that he certainly would have gone there to the Cotton Bowl game. And in fact, LBJ didn't end up going to the Cotton Bowl game himself, but he actually sent his daughter to the game. So so it's it's really, it's what really got to me is, you know, a lot of people focus on the Kennedy assassination, you know, here we are 60 years later, and the actor and director Rob Reiner is producing a major podcast now, where he's, he's saying, I've solved the Kennedy assassination. I, you know, it's a conspiracy, it was a conspiracy. And, and here's all the evidence I haven't listened to the podcast, but this is a big thing right now. And it, you know, it's occurred to me, as I was doing as I was researching this, and kind of experiencing this, that we've kind of dehumanized Kennedy over the last 60 years, just just focusing on the conspiracy theories around the assassination, we forget that this was a person who had, you know, dreams and aspirations. And one of his big dreams was to go to this Cotton Bowl game and see number two Navy and you know, the whole time he's been following Navy, they have never reached number two, they had not been this high in the rankings, since, since the war, since the war. And, as you probably know, in 1944 and 45, Army and Navy were the top two teams in the country. And the Army Navy game decided the national champion basically in 44 and 45 with Army winning both of those games and going undefeated. So this was Navy's chance to win a national title. They had not been in contention for a national title since they had lost to Army in 1945. I mean, this would have been one of the high points of Kennedy's life going as president to the Cotton Bowl, to watch them possibly win a national championship. And I have to believe that, and Greg, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, I'd have to believe that, you know, the motivation of knowing that you've got the president pulling for you would have been a big deal.

Greg McGifney
I absolutely believe it would have happened that that's, you know, everything I, I knew about Kennedy and, and the Navy football team, you know, being a graduate, of course, and having gone there and, you know, just just know the whole story behind it and what Kennedy was all about. I have no doubt he would have gave the guys a pep talk either in Annapolis, which is not far from Washington, obviously, or, you know, at the game, I have no doubt in my mind, Kennedy would have give them a pep talk and they would have probably responded very well to that. Just, just because I know he was he was pretty beloved and it's just like I said, it's a shame we don't realize that now, nowadays, but in that era, Kennedy and Navy were kind of a thing and like I said, he was a naval hero. He was, he wanted to be associated with the Navy very much so. And I think, you know, he, he was probably our best fan in term, definitely the best fan, as far as commander chief we ever have even probably better than Jimmy Carter I'm gonna guarantee because he really loved the team. He wanted to be part of the team. He wanted to be part of Navy football and he went to every army, he made it a point, I'm gonna be there. I love, I like Navy. You know, Harvard guy like in Navy who knew but hey that's, that's the way it went and was just such a great time in Navy football history that that team was just incredible and, you know, to think they could have beat a very good Texas team that was probably one of the history's best teams ever they were really good it just it just makes me, you know, think, gosh, that was a great season for for Navy and the Naval Academy so I just, I just wish I could have, you know, seen it myself I was, you know, too young probably to do that of course but that would have been an incredible time to be there.

Darin Hayes
I'm sure was now is it too presumptuous for me to say maybe either one of you can answer this now 60 years ago now we think of today, you know air force one is flying probably every day probably flying almost like a commercial jet going all over place but back in 1963 air travel is probably not as as prevalent as today and so for a president to be going you know basically thanksgiving being texas going back to washington going to philadelphia going back to texas within a month time that's probably quite a bit of travel even for the president of the united states in that time isn't it

Len Ferman
I think Air Force One was flying, you know, the average person was not flying all over the place like they are now, you know, the volume of passenger air traffic was a fraction of what it is today. But jet travel, we were in the jet travel age by the late 50s, and Air Force One was flying all over the place. In fact, the morning of the assassination, Kennedy woke up in Fort Worth, and they flew Air Force One from Fort Worth to Dallas, 10 minutes. So they didn't think anything of just flying, you know, flying Air Force One all over the place back then. But one of the things I want to bring up also is how the assassination affected the Navy team. And maybe this is something, Greg, that you can talk to how it would have impacted people in the armed forces more than the average person.

Greg McGifney
Well, I think Kennedy was a beloved figure. I mean, I still think of him in high regard as far as a lot of things related to that in that era. And there was a lot of turbulence, I guess, underlying turbulence politically in the world at that time. And you got to remember, Kennedy went to Dallas in November of 63 because he was starting, effectively starting his campaign for re -election. And there is no doubt about that. That's documented. That's why he was going there, it was to campaign. And so, he would have probably been going a lot of places throughout the country, but Texas to him was a big deal. And I think he thought he had to win Texas to win re -election. I think it was that he thought it was probably close again, just like it was against Nixon in 60. And it didn't end up being that way in 64, but he thought it was going to be. And he was definitely putting down markers to appeal to and to be part of and to be visible in these locations. So I got to think that's, he was looking at football maybe as a way that he could relate to people, which was pretty cool. And again, Kennedy was a naval hero. Kennedy was someone that I think Midshipman and the Naval Academy looked up to, had in high regard. I think when I was there, I think he was in high regard. I think people still remember, Kennedy was a fan. And we heard all the stories from the past and Roger Staubach related to that too, because he was NFL superstar. So I think there's still a lot of that going on and people will remember that and it kind of got further and further away now, but at the time, it was a very big deal. And I think it really, I think it really must've really affected the team because I think they thought him as one of them. I really did, even though he didn't go there per se, he was a Navy guy who went to war just like they were going to go eventually. And he was probably the closest thing they had to a president that they could relate to.

Len Ferman
Interesting. And the point the point I was wanted to make is that I think not only did they lose this potential motivation by not having Kennedy there, by losing Kennedy, the way they did, it really deflated the team. And, and the the Cotton Bowl game on New Year's Day 1964 does not go very well for Navy. What what happens is, and I wanted to get to the game itself, Texas, like Army was very much a defensive oriented, rushing team on offense, they hardly threw the ball, Duke Carlisle, their quarterback had only thrown for 400 yards passing the entire season in 1963. And so they catch the kind of catch Navy a little blindsided because they come in with a whole new strategy where they're going to throw, and they throw two touchdown passes early in the game, it's 14 nothing early on. And another thing they did very smart on their part, they apparently knew that the one of the Texas defensive backs, Pat Donnelly, who also doubled as a halfback. So another another two way player, Pat Donnelly had a hamstring injury. And so they threw at they threw in Donnelly's direction on two long bombs that they converted for touchdowns. And if you look at the you can see this in my sub stack article, you can see the videos where where Donnelly is just not able to keep up with the Texas wide receiver. And Texas scores these two early touchdowns. And that really, that really was an early nail in the coffin. And Texas ends up going up 28 nothing in the second half. And Stawback finally runs one in and, and it's 28 to six was the final score. Another interesting kind of side note is so Duke Carlisle who threw for just over 400 yards all season, he breaks the Cotton Bowl record by the third quarter, he breaks the Cotton Bowl record for passing yards in a game with something like 213. And then Stawback breaks the record in the fourth quarter. So Stawback ended up passing for 228 yards in that game. And that became the Cotton Bowl record. So the records broken by both quarterbacks in the same game. Wow. So so it doesn't end well for Navy losing 28 to six in the Cotton Bowl. But I have to believe that if Kennedy had lived and was able to go to Dallas, six weeks after that initial trip, that things could have been very different.

Darin Hayes
Yeah. Wow. That's a definitely a good point. And, uh, you know, something we'll never know. But, uh, you know, very interesting that they both quarterbacks broke the record of the cotton ball just tells you how badly each team wanted to win. Or at least the, the quarterbacks play, uh, was indicative of that. So, uh, very interesting indeed. Now, do we have any final notes on that? Where did Navy ended up? Did they end up ranked number two for the final balls?

Len Ferman
So here's the interesting thing. So back in those days, the final polls came out before the bowl games. Bowl games were really viewed as more like exhibition games. So officially, Texas won the national championship like three weeks earlier when the final poll came out around a little after the Army -Navy game. So around December 10 or 12, the final poll came out and Texas was one, Navy was two. And that's why I call it a de facto. The game was like a de facto national championship. It wasn't really the true national championship, but if Navy would have beaten Texas, it'd be hard to say, well, Navy wasn't really the national champion, but the official national champion had already been decided. And by the way, it's very interesting to note, it was the first ever national title for Texas. And Navy has never won a national title.

Darin Hayes
Interesting. And how about you, Greg? Do you have any final things to wrap up on our 1963 Navy team?

Greg McGifney
Well, you know, like, like Lynn said, it was, it was a disappointing thing all around, but bowl games were a really big deal until, you know, very recently, I think there's so many of them. But back then, there weren't that many. So it was a pretty big deal to have maybe go to the Cotton Bowl or maybe with the Orange Bowl. I mean, there weren't that many bowls. And if you go to bowl game, you got to be a pretty good team. And so I think there was a lot of maybe, I won't say height, but definitely interest in bowl games. And people took them seriously, as far as who, who beat who and what happened in a bowl game. And like today, you have opt outs and embarrassments and things like that. Now, the playoff is different. Now, it gets, it's more interesting. But still, I think college football was a little bit different than there were fewer games. And, you know, these, these one off games, you know, were that you hadn't actually televised or were televised or, you know, even radio broadcasts were a very big deal. And, you know, I just had one additional postscript about Roger Staubach, you know, where he ended up playing in his professional career from the at first, it was the Cotton Bowl. He played for Dallas Cowboys, he started, he played in the Cotton Bowl, then they moved to Texas Stadium later on, but he ended up playing home games at the Cotton Bowl and he ended up and Roger Staubach, you know, recovered from this defeat, obviously, because he became the first Dallas Cowboys quarterback to win the Super Bowl in Super Bowl six. So he actually was Dallas's first, you know, Super Bowl champion quarterback and they came close many times to winning NFL championships and the ice bowl and then the Super Bowl five was kind of a debacle. It was kind of a, they call it the Blunder Bowl and the Cowboys lost but Super Bowl six. Roger Staubach became the starting quarterback just before that in that season and he became the Super Bowl winning quarterback, the first one for Dallas and of course a Hall of Famer down down the road with many accolades and he ended up living in Dallas after that. So it kind of went full circle for him, but certainly, you know, Dallas was a certain place and at the time of the Cotton Bowl. You know, you realize that, you know, Roger Staubach was going to be in the Navy. He wasn't going to play professional football right away for a number of years and Logan B. Holley came back to play for Dallas. So I just thought that was kind of a karmic thing in a lot of ways that here comes Staubach and look where he is in his Dallas Cowboys Hall of Famer, so

Darin Hayes
Anyway, good point on the irony now. He lost two games in a cotton ball that you're right. He lost correct you not a good Yeah, Texas. He did not have

Greg McGifney
good luck in the cotton bowl. But as a professional, he he had a lot better luck.

Darin Hayes
a great point. Well guys that is an excellent story and I thank you for sharing and bringing light into memories to this 1963 team and the greatness that was in some you know some really important moments in American history too of the country losing our leader very tragically and you know and how the the country responded and how football responded and a lot of people looked to things like football the entertainment to sort of take their minds off of it and I think it probably put a lot of people at ease knowing that the army navy game and the bowl games were being played and life could go on even though we lost such an important figure in world history at the time and gentlemen I really want to thank you again for for joining us and you know writing about this Len and you know commenting and sharing it with us here today on pixkin dispatch

Greg McGifney
Thank you for writing this line. It was one of the best things I've ever read. So thank you for following Navy football was tremendous.

Len Ferman
Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Darin. It was great being here.